The memory of those teams has lowered my expectations for what Beinfest will be able to do with this current crop of talent.

 

Really? From 2004-6, I've learned not to trust my expectations so much.

Choi, Murphy and Penny for LoDuca, Mota and Encarnacion- I don't think anyone bemoaned the loss of Choi. Penny's had a pretty decent career, but Mota anchored our bullpen for the stretch run that ultimately fizzled.

 

The only trade this team has made that I can say was a complete dud was the D-Lee trade.

 

Disagree on both.

 

D-Lee was a candidate to be non-tendered. Do you know what that means? Despite holding the rights to him, we were unwilling or unable to pay him what he'd earn in arbitration. Meaning we would have had to release him or trade him. The league knew this. The papers at the time were wondering how we could afford to keep the championship team together, or even a fraction of it, and still fill out the roster to be competitive. The assumption was only Lee or Castillo could be re-signed. We didn't trade Lee away for Choi. We got Choi for something we barely owned. And Choi was at least serviceable, actually posting a .882 OPS and rare lefthanded power for us. Decent haul for essentially nothing, no?

 

And I'm surprised you can look back at the Penny-LoDuca trade positively. It's true that Choi never hit .882 again and that Penny got injured. However, Mota did not by any means stabilize our bullpen. He had a 4.81 ERA and blew 4 games in the second half. Encarnacion hit worse than the typical AAAA outfielder (.702 OPS) and LoDuca went into his usual second half slump to help tank the offense. Not only did we miss an opportunity to get a good player (or at least a set of complimentary parts better suited for that year's playoff run), we didn't even realize a break in salaries. Mota and Encarnacion each were given million dollar raises, and LoDuca a big raise in a long-term deal. Along with Lowell and Leiter, they formed the nucleus of the overpaid mediocre veteran team of 2005.

 

That 2005 team being so mediocre obviously directly lead to the payroll constraints we have now, as Loria did not want to spend money on mediocrity. Considering how disappointing that season was, its hard to blame him. Looking back on it, those 2004 and 2005 teams had some major deficiencies despite more money being spent on a lot of places. Our bullpen's were particularly atrocious, and when those bullpens really started struggling it seemed like the attitude of the team became very negative. And the hurricane issues those years also clouded things up more than they needed to be.

 

But its interesting to note that those teams, despite being expected to compete and having some legitimately awesome players (Delgado, Cabrera), had some glaring holes just like the teams we have now. And not enough effort was made to fix those holes until the trade deadline where sometimes we gave up more talent than we should have. The memory of those teams has lowered my expectations for what Beinfest will be able to do with this current crop of talent.

 

What about 2006, when the team was expected to lose 100+, yet had the 2nd best record in the NL after their 11-31 start?

Or last year when the team wasn't expected to compete at all, after trading Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis?

 

That doesn't make your expectations any higher? (or at least even them out?)

Choi, Murphy and Penny for LoDuca, Mota and Encarnacion- I don't think anyone bemoaned the loss of Choi. Penny's had a pretty decent career, but Mota anchored our bullpen for the stretch run that ultimately fizzled.

 

The only trade this team has made that I can say was a complete dud was the D-Lee trade.

 

Disagree on both.

 

D-Lee was a candidate to be non-tendered. Do you know what that means? Despite holding the rights to him, we were unwilling or unable to pay him what he'd earn in arbitration. Meaning we would have had to release him or trade him. The league knew this. The papers at the time were wondering how we could afford to keep the championship team together, or even a fraction of it, and still fill out the roster to be competitive. The assumption was only Lee or Castillo could be re-signed. We didn't trade Lee away for Choi. We got Choi for something we barely owned. And Choi was at least serviceable, actually posting a .882 OPS and rare lefthanded power for us. Decent haul for essentially nothing, no?

 

And I'm surprised you can look back at the Penny-LoDuca trade positively. It's true that Choi never hit .882 again and that Penny got injured. However, Mota did not by any means stabilize our bullpen. He had a 4.81 ERA and blew 4 games in the second half. Encarnacion hit worse than the typical AAAA outfielder (.702 OPS) and LoDuca went into his usual second half slump to help tank the offense. Not only did we miss an opportunity to get a good player (or at least a set of complimentary parts better suited for that year's playoff run), we didn't even realize a break in salaries. Mota and Encarnacion each were given million dollar raises, and LoDuca a big raise in a long-term deal. Along with Lowell and Leiter, they formed the nucleus of the overpaid mediocre veteran team of 2005.

 

That 2005 team being so mediocre obviously directly lead to the payroll constraints we have now, as Loria did not want to spend money on mediocrity. Considering how disappointing that season was, its hard to blame him. Looking back on it, those 2004 and 2005 teams had some major deficiencies despite more money being spent on a lot of places. Our bullpen's were particularly atrocious, and when those bullpens really started struggling it seemed like the attitude of the team became very negative. And the hurricane issues those years also clouded things up more than they needed to be.

 

But its interesting to note that those teams, despite being expected to compete and having some legitimately awesome players (Delgado, Cabrera), had some glaring holes just like the teams we have now. And not enough effort was made to fix those holes until the trade deadline where sometimes we gave up more talent than we should have. The memory of those teams has lowered my expectations for what Beinfest will be able to do with this current crop of talent.

 

What about 2006, when the team was expected to lose 100+, yet had the 2nd best record in the NL after their 11-31 start?

Or last year when the team wasn't expected to compete at all, after trading Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis?

 

That doesn't make your expectations any higher? (or at least even them out?)

 

We didn't make the playoffs. End of discussion.

Choi, Murphy and Penny for LoDuca, Mota and Encarnacion- I don't think anyone bemoaned the loss of Choi. Penny's had a pretty decent career, but Mota anchored our bullpen for the stretch run that ultimately fizzled.

 

The only trade this team has made that I can say was a complete dud was the D-Lee trade.

 

Disagree on both.

 

D-Lee was a candidate to be non-tendered. Do you know what that means? Despite holding the rights to him, we were unwilling or unable to pay him what he'd earn in arbitration. Meaning we would have had to release him or trade him. The league knew this. The papers at the time were wondering how we could afford to keep the championship team together, or even a fraction of it, and still fill out the roster to be competitive. The assumption was only Lee or Castillo could be re-signed. We didn't trade Lee away for Choi. We got Choi for something we barely owned. And Choi was at least serviceable, actually posting a .882 OPS and rare lefthanded power for us. Decent haul for essentially nothing, no?

 

And I'm surprised you can look back at the Penny-LoDuca trade positively. It's true that Choi never hit .882 again and that Penny got injured. However, Mota did not by any means stabilize our bullpen. He had a 4.81 ERA and blew 4 games in the second half. Encarnacion hit worse than the typical AAAA outfielder (.702 OPS) and LoDuca went into his usual second half slump to help tank the offense. Not only did we miss an opportunity to get a good player (or at least a set of complimentary parts better suited for that year's playoff run), we didn't even realize a break in salaries. Mota and Encarnacion each were given million dollar raises, and LoDuca a big raise in a long-term deal. Along with Lowell and Leiter, they formed the nucleus of the overpaid mediocre veteran team of 2005.

 

That 2005 team being so mediocre obviously directly lead to the payroll constraints we have now, as Loria did not want to spend money on mediocrity. Considering how disappointing that season was, its hard to blame him. Looking back on it, those 2004 and 2005 teams had some major deficiencies despite more money being spent on a lot of places. Our bullpen's were particularly atrocious, and when those bullpens really started struggling it seemed like the attitude of the team became very negative. And the hurricane issues those years also clouded things up more than they needed to be.

 

But its interesting to note that those teams, despite being expected to compete and having some legitimately awesome players (Delgado, Cabrera), had some glaring holes just like the teams we have now. And not enough effort was made to fix those holes until the trade deadline where sometimes we gave up more talent than we should have. The memory of those teams has lowered my expectations for what Beinfest will be able to do with this current crop of talent.

 

What about 2006, when the team was expected to lose 100+, yet had the 2nd best record in the NL after their 11-31 start?

Or last year when the team wasn't expected to compete at all, after trading Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis?

 

That doesn't make your expectations any higher? (or at least even them out?)

 

We didn't make the playoffs. End of discussion.

 

 

In a league where 22 of the 30 teams don't make the playoffs, every year. You say that as if it's the NBA or the NHL where 8 teams from each conference get in (that's pretty much half the conference).

 

We exceeded expectations those years...doesn't that count for something?