ASOT

Why build the stadium? Surely, you're not that dense. Loria believed, as did everyone, that a baseball stadium with a roof and a/c would solve the attendance problem. No more rain, no more humidity. The ultimate in fan comfort. Brand new. A baseball palace. And, did you forget that we have been trying to get that done for 20 years? He and everyone else was wrong. He and everyone else only found out that there was a fan problem AFTER the stadium was built. Hard to justify moving before that. But, I'm sure it all makes perfect sense in your world of Loria-hatred where mindless bile rules the day. No. Do you actually live down there? People only realized there was a "fan problem" in south florida just now?? If you think that the sole reason attendance stunk in the past was because people were worried about getting rained on you're nuts. It has always been a crappy sports town. You build the new stadium to IMPROVE attendance, which it was doing. Expecting sellouts all season long was stupid and naive and basically suggests no knowledge about south florida. Building and maintaining a fanbase is an ongoing process. a PROCESS. You don't flip a *$% switch. Over time the stadium will be huge in building the fanbase. Of course its a process, and I think even Loria understands this. This is why I believe this was pre-meditated and was clearly going to happen no matter what. He counted on empty seats and got what he wanted, enough of them to allow him to use that as an excuse to go back to the easy way to make money - get the most out of revenue sharing.

Do you actually live down there? People only realized there was a "fan problem" in south florida just now?? If you think that the sole reason attendance stunk in the past was because people were worried about getting rained on you're nuts. It has always been a crappy sports town. About 80 blocks north of the stadium. Tell Rich and Tommy and Admin and David and Jeffrey and everyone else who talked incessantly for a year or more about how the roof and a/c would solve the attendance problem. No more rain, no more humidity, no more delays, no more crummy stadium with lousy sight-lines, you could go to a game and know it would be played on time and enjoy it in a real baseball stadium without sweating. Fan nirvana. I agreed with them at the time that that should work. I no longer do. And they didn't expect sellouts all year, that's another myth. But there's also no way they expected a 72% sell rate in a small stadium, with only 46% butts in the seats. Yes, this is a crappy sports town. This stadium proves it. As long as "fans" want to boycott, they will suffer crappy, losing teams -- the only thing that counts is revenue. While national TV revenue will improve by 25 mill next year and we'll owe less to guys who aren't here, local stadium revenue is always the paramount variable. So the fans have to show loyalty to Loria 1st ? That isn't the way most businesses are run. They try to improve the product in order to attract the fans. According to your its obvious that the fans won't be turning out and Loria won't put a winner on the field. Well good for him, and most people in Miami will go on and the Marlins will become the afterthought that Loria wants and expects. Everyone is happy then right ? If MLb wants to allow that, then so be it, because that is what will happen.

Didn't Loria have enough sense to research Ozzie ? If he had, he would have known that much of the Cuban community already had it in for him years before he was hired as the Marlins manager. Anyone with common sense could have done research on Ozzie and found his controversial statements about Chavez and the cozy relationship they seemed to enjoy. That story had been out there for years. It was Loria's "I have to have him, I have to have him" childishness temper tantrum and f*** the fans attitude that got him Ozzie. Well he got all he deserved by making a whim decision instead of a baseball business decision. And of course that's all the fans fault isn't it ? I seem to recall most of the fans "boycotting" now being very excited about the hiring of Ozzie actually. So you've taken a poll of them ? You had time to do this Admin ? Can I see your survey sheets please ? Admin you don't live here so I guess I can excuse some of your ignorance of South Florida and its constant weird politics. Ozzie is part of that fabric, and many of them have hated him for years because of his stand for Chavez and his Castro stupidity only added nuclear fuel to that.

Fan base? What fan base? They had 5K season-tickets at the old joint and they have 5K season-tickets at the new joint. A 600 mill baseball paradise with a roof and a/c is built and they still don't show up. Loria could sell tomorrow and it wouldn't make a dime's worth of difference. I recommend that the Loria-haters join a Cubs board -- no WS won in 104 years -- the ultimate in frustration. Or maybe a Pirates board -- no winning season in, what is it now, 20 or 21 years? Then why was the stadium so important ? You can't answer that one without admitting that either Loria was to stupid to know this fanbase wouldn't turnout, or he was planning this all along and the fans made it easy for him to use the "they didn't show up" excuse to strip the team. All the stadium did was enrich him, and he's not taking full advantage of even its revenue streams. The naming rights fiasco is just stupidity upon stupidity.

Like I mentioned above, no multi-billionaire would want to own it now so if Loria leaves -- expect another owner with a similar wealth to take over. It's not a good business to own and guys like Ted Lerner know that. It's not only is he not able to afford the team, its they way its run. It could be run much better with better front office people, and with better results, I think you'd get a better fanbase. Admin don't you think with someone else running it better, and with better results on the field won't get better results in the stands ? I think you are off there. Maybe not top of the league but I think with Hispanic ownership, which understands that community better would result in possibly a fanbase like you have in Cincinnati or Minnesota.

New park location cuts off 40% of Marlin's previous fan base. Marlin's plan to replace them with a Hispanic base has failed. The only hope for significant attendance is HIspanic ownership of the team. TV ratings show that the Marlins no longer have a real fan base. A hispanic (mostly Cuban) fanbase that was turned off by the manager last year because of idiotic statements made by a hot headed manager. Loria is to blame for that as Ozzie is what Ozzie is, and he got exactly what he bargained for. That's incredibly stupid. The few that were pissed couldn't afford to go to the games anyways, and they were still ok with selling their driveways for whatever they could get. That was a story blown up by the Cuban media because it was an easy way to sell papers. Well actually Ozzie was hated for years by certain segments of the right wing Cuban mafia known as Los Exiliados. We're talking about the old, domino park types that were standing in front of Elian Gonzalez's house back in 2000. It was easy to research and find out that Ozzie might not be the best manager to have for a Miami based team. Then again that would mean people with a clue owned and ran this franchise, which is such a glittering & shining example for baseball ownership throughout MLB. Their history of winning seasons and long term fan base loyalty is on show every night in their new ballpark.

A hispanic (mostly Cuban) fanbase that was turned off by the manager last year because of idiotic statements made by a hot headed manager. Loria is to blame for that as Ozzie is what Ozzie is, and he got exactly what he bargained for. That just gets added to the list of excuses of why they didn't support the team. There's always a new one ready to go. Didn't Loria have enough sense to research Ozzie ? If he had, he would have known that much of the Cuban community already had it in for him years before he was hired as the Marlins manager. Anyone with common sense could have done research on Ozzie and found his controversial statements about Chavez and the cozy relationship they seemed to enjoy. That story had been out there for years. It was Loria's "I have to have him, I have to have him" childishness temper tantrum and fuck the fans attitude that got him Ozzie. Well he got all he deserved by making a whim decision instead of a baseball business decision. And of course that's all the fans fault isn't it ?

Nationals are owned by another multi-billionaire... Then more proof that Loria is not able to afford this team. Why does he stay in other than to just try and collect as much as he can from revenue sharing ? If the other owners are smart, they just have to agree to no revenue sharing for a 4 or 5 year period. That might force Loria out.

New park location cuts off 40% of Marlin's previous fan base. Marlin's plan to replace them with a Hispanic base has failed. The only hope for significant attendance is HIspanic ownership of the team. TV ratings show that the Marlins no longer have a real fan base. A hispanic (mostly Cuban) fanbase that was turned off by the manager last year because of idiotic statements made by a hot headed manager. Loria is to blame for that as Ozzie is what Ozzie is, and he got exactly what he bargained for.

... doesn't work for the team. He is just a fan like the rest of us. I really can't ever recall him ever discussing the team so is he a fan of the team or Loria ? He's a fan of the team. Just because he takes the opposing view of the majority doesn't make him any less of a fan of the team. You didn't really answer the question though, does he ever discuss the team on the field ?

As long as that man owns the team, expect most fans to boycott going to the ballpark or watching them on TV. Yep, and then do the same thing with the next owner. You can't say that, because stable ownership with a long-term winning vision has never existed for the Marlins. That has been so injured at this time, he may have fucked that for the next owner and its such a shame, but you can't keep abusing people and then expect them to just totally forgive as if nothing ever happened before.

The embarrassment of this team continues: Marlins TV ratings have been dreadful, with the first two home games this week generating a 1.8 and 1.5 – numbers comparable to daytime game shows – followed by Wednesday’s embarrassing 0.8 – equaling .8 percent of Dade/Broward homes with TV sets. Conversely, opposing Heat games on Tuesday and Wednesday drew a 9.4 and 6.7... Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/fish_bytes/2013/04/too-awful-to-watch-marlins-tv-ratings-take-a-dive.html#storylink=cpy I'm not surprised. I know people who had been season ticket holders for years, but this year they cancelled their tickets and won't even watch the Marlins on TV or discuss them. At my local cigar shop, every single year for the past 4-5 years there would be 7 or 8 people watching the Marlins game every night. This year whenever the owner turns on the TV to the Marlins game, people say things like "The team is dead to me until that bum Loria sells." Then they get up and go outside to play dominoes. They just don't care anymore! Heck, even the other fans there at the two games I attended were expressing how angry they were with the entire situation. People are pissed off, and they've had just about enough of Loria and his gang. As long as that man owns the team, expect most fans to boycott going to the ballpark or watching them on TV. This is Loria's world, and he made his bed. I hope he's happy being a laughingstock. Enjoy the money from your revenue sharing because its becoming more and more evident that'll be almost the only money you'll be making. It's interesting, the Nats, loaded up on Jason Werth and everyone scoffed at them. Then they blew for several years, and their attendance sucked, even in a new ballpark. However, a Strausberg & Harper later, and several more smart baseball trades and moves they are now projected to win at least 90+ games for the 2nd year in a row, and look to have an amazing future for the next 4 or 5 years. Meanwhile, Loria it looks like will lose not only Stanton, but Fernandez and Yelich in that timeframe of 5 years because he can't shake loose of the fact it takes time & effort to build a franchise into a consistent winner. Instead he wants the immediate gratification, and if it doesn't happen, he turns into this sour hate filled douchebag that kills any team building and fanbase building because of his own greed. Again I hope he is happy with the few millions he makes from revenue sharing, because had he made some sacrifices longer than a year or two and done what it takes to build a long term winner, he would see that come back to him in droves and then some. And if he can't afford to take a loss of $ 47 million one year in order to put the team into a winning mode, and reassure the fanbase that he is indeed interested in building a sustaining winner, then he needs to get out of the business and let someone come in who can do that. The possibilities are there, but Loria just can't stop himself from destroying any chance he ever has of building anything lasting here. Okay I'm done, its back to our baseball team, as crappy as they are.....

They overspent last year....then over-corrected this year. If they had put a $70-80 million payroll on the field this year (perhaps by keeping Buerhle and Reyes)....nobody would be complaining about Loria being "cheap"...and I think attendance would be much more respectable. I know for fact that I would have kept my three 20 game plans if nothing else. As for tv ratings...they are going to suck every night against the Heat during what is going to be a historic title rurn for them. No shame in that. Does anyone have a comparison between Heat and non-Heat nights? Also....I can tell you from living near DC for awhile...the Nats used to get TV ratings measured in decimal points (>1.0) only....so the fact that the Marlins are getting 1.4 ratings is not historically bad, all things considered. One of the Marlins other "revenue problems"...they counted on selling naming rights to the ballpark for $10 million a year...plus other sponsorships that did not materialize (If I recall, they only sold 2 of 4 "quadrant" sponsorships). Perhaps major sponsors were smart not to trust this ownership group. My guess is Loria will sell once the sales penalties owed to the county are over....in 2015, We can only hope, but ... will surely be butthurt by that !

Gave up 3 months into the season? Not really, it was 4 months -- they didn't trade Baby Hanley until July 26th. But, revenue was well into the tank long before that, even after a great May. At 4 months of disappointment they pulled the plug. They're not stupid -- the fans weren't showing up. And the lousy rate through the turnstiles was reflected in food and liquor concessions and merchandise and parking and all the rest of it. They were losing their rear ends and limited it to "only" 47 million. Apparently, that makes the FO and anyone who doesn't trash them "retards." Well it does in some regards, because of the past behavior of the this fanbase. So who is really to blame ? The fans who didn't want to pay above average prices for tickets for stupidly put together team that doesn't win, and has a manager that insults better than half the fanbase less than a week into the season ? Of course those idiots, the ones ... calls a crummy fanbase yet the owner just had to have his stadium By the way ... just waiting for you to answer my call for a truce. Maybe it was poorly constructed but the fans who are now "boycotting" are blaming it on those players being traded away so apparently that's not the reason. Plus, they DID win in May and the fans still didn't show up in droves. Well one reason is they lost so much in April.....but we forget that part don't we ? They had no shot and it was evident by May this was going to go down as a failure on the field. And the crowds were still decent until late June when it was completely apparent the team was a big pile of doo doo. C'mon Admin be at least a little honest in that, the crowds weren't 10-12,000 until July & August. They were still averaging over 20,000 actual bodies in seats until late June.

If the team is this lousy year after year, well how long will it be Admin that you can justify calling it Marlinsbaseball.com ? You would be better suited to call it something different in order to increase your clicks and in turn your return on your advertisement. If I ran this site for profit, I would've stopped 20 years ago when it started. I don't make money on this, I lose money on it. ... must not be a fan of yours

The embarrassment of this team continues: Marlins TV ratings have been dreadful, with the first two home games this week generating a 1.8 and 1.5 – numbers comparable to daytime game shows – followed by Wednesday’s embarrassing 0.8 – equaling .8 percent of Dade/Broward homes with TV sets. Conversely, opposing Heat games on Tuesday and Wednesday drew a 9.4 and 6.7... Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/fish_bytes/2013/04/too-awful-to-watch-marlins-tv-ratings-take-a-dive.html#storylink=cpy Now people are not even watching at home. :nugget How long until the other owners start with the contraction talk....they are billionaires many of them, and they can lawyer up and fight the city & county about any contraction. I wonder do the city & county contracts even have provisions for contraction ? If they are contracted, the Marlins didn't move anywhere, they just cease to exist.

I don't know what this board has to do with the ownership of the Marlins so I'm not sure how to even answer that. squall: Can you please clear that up for me? I guess I'm too "retarded" to figure it out. Well what's the point of this board if it isn't about the team ? It seems more time and effort is spent by just about everyone, talking about the teams owner, team finances, and front offices refusal to keep up with modern baseball team building tactics, than about the team on the field. If the team is this lousy year after year, well how long will it be Admin that you can justify calling it Marlinsbaseball.com ? You would be better suited to call it something different in order to increase your clicks and in turn your return on your advertisement. Because I am sure some people see that title and say, "Oh god I hate that team no way I visit that site". I imagine that happens more often than you'd ever wish to know.

... doesn't work for the team. He is just a fan like the rest of us. I really can't ever recall him ever discussing the team so is he a fan of the team or Loria ?

Gave up 3 months into the season? Not really, it was 4 months -- they didn't trade Baby Hanley until July 26th. But, revenue was well into the tank long before that, even after a great May. At 4 months of disappointment they pulled the plug. They're not stupid -- the fans weren't showing up. And the lousy rate through the turnstiles was reflected in food and liquor concessions and merchandise and parking and all the rest of it. They were losing their rear ends and limited it to "only" 47 million. Apparently, that makes the FO and anyone who doesn't trash them "retards." Well it does in some regards, because of the past behavior of the this fanbase. So who is really to blame ? The fans who didn't want to pay above average prices for tickets for stupidly put together team that doesn't win, and has a manager that insults better than half the fanbase less than a week into the season ? Of course those idiots, the ones ... calls a crummy fanbase yet the owner just had to have his stadium By the way ... just waiting for you to answer my call for a truce.

There is no plan dude. There never has been. Yeah, there was. Revenue was going to match payroll. They said this over and over again. They made the effort, the fans there didn't. Then what's the point of his owning the team or it even existing ? So I guess what you are saying is Loria will just keep this vicious cycle going year after year. So what's the point of even keeping this board going ? What your saying is its an exercise in total futility for any owner, ever ? I don't believe that and think with a smart ownership such as they have in Tampa, baseball would thrive here. Tampa is the fanbase that I think deserves much more ridicule than this one.

Why build the stadium? Surely, you're not that dense. Loria believed, as did everyone, that a baseball stadium with a roof and a/c would solve the attendance problem. No more rain, no more humidity. The ultimate in fan comfort. Brand new. A baseball palace. And, did you forget that we have been trying to get that done for 20 years? He and everyone else was wrong. He and everyone else only found out that there was a fan problem AFTER the stadium was built. Hard to justify moving before that. But, I'm sure it all makes perfect sense in your world of Loria-hatred where mindless bile rules the day. I love how defensive you get about Loria. You know you only add fuel to the fire when you do that. It makes it more suspicious each and every time that you must have something to gain or lose with the team, because your defense of the indefensible Loria actions is senseless. But who knows....I guess only yourself and Admin. I can understand why he wouldn't reveal it one way or the other, but your actions and defensive posts are slowly but surely peeling that cover off. ... let's make a truce, you and I just talk about baseball for a month, no posts about Loria or the team management - for or against to anyone on the board or to each other, is that a deal ? Nothing but baseball. Okay ? Now if you don't post for a month I think it'll prove my point.

The actual butts in seat attendance was fine from start-1997, and growing. Even from the start in 1993 it took time for folks to get used to the comings/goings/parking. It's how it is in this market and any front office that failed to take that into account in projecting butts in seats in a new stadium was or would be incompetent. Whether the team performed under-over or woefully under expectations. In retrospect, a better plan might have been less spent upfront on talent and more spent in promoting alternate transport(buses for $10) to get those butts initially in the seats. After all, once they saw how quick the trip was and how beautiful the new stadium is they'd come back on their own gas and parking dollar. Attendance was only "fine" in '93-'97 to the extent that it about equaled average NL attendance over those 5 years. Per game, it declined in years 2 through 4. And, in fact, '97 was the last time attendance was above the NL average at all -- by a whopping 87K. In a WS year. It then continued to shrink all the way through 2002 to 813K. Before Loria even arrived here. Thanks, Wayne. What are you saying with "it took time for folks to get used to the comings/goings/parking" and suggesting "alternate transport (buses for $10) to get those butts initially in the seats"? That Marlins fans as a group are too stupid to figure out how to get to a new stadium or figure out how to park? I don't think the FO did anything other than underestimate just how bad the fan base is here. Look at the last new stadium to open, Target Field in another mid-sized market. Granted, the Twins had a 50 year history in MN, much longer than the Marlins' 20 years here, but 20 years ain't nuthin'. The Twins had sold as few as 1 million tickets are recently as 2000, 10 years before Target opened, just as the Marlins sold only 813K 10 years before Marlins Park opened. Yet, the Twins sold 102% of capacity the first TWO years (SRO was the excess) and Target was a million ABOVE the AL average in 2010. We were 400K BELOW the NL average in 2012. Two new stadiums, two similar-sized markets, completely different results. Maybe the average Marlins fan is too stupid to figure out how to get to a new stadium and park. Or maybe they just don't care. The Twins also were in the playoffs the last season at Humphrey Dome and 1st year of Target Field. Think that might have helped a bit ?

Get a beautiful new 600 mill stadium built ... It's amazing that taxpayers aren't more grateful for the $2.4 billion stadium they were forced to build for Loria. I know they voted for it didn't they.....oh wait.....

Not anytime soon as long as Loria owns the team. It's obvious the fans don't trust him. Thus the poor attendance in a new stadium. When he goes, baseball COULD be saved in Miami if things are done right. Absolutely, and I think it will rebound, but not as long as Loria is the owner. If he thought people would be so dumb as to trust him that quickly, then he is as clueless and tone-deaf as we have heard he is. They have been burned twice before and one of those was by Loria (or at least they perceive they were burned, we really know it wasn't until 2005), if he doesn't get that by now, even a brick wall falling on him won't make him realize it. But reality is what is perceived sometimes and Loria just was being an idiot if he didn't know enough to gauge that the public was watching him, and many of them were just waiting for him to do what he did, and then they can say, I told you so. He needed to be more patient. These people are customers, and in business even if they are not always right, you need to treat them that way, if you want to get their business again, and again and again. Loria just killed whatever chance that had of ever happening as long as he owns the team. Good luck to Loria, but the odds are really stacked against him in getting not only this team to a championship, but even to the playoffs. I don't think they'll ever make them as long as he is the owner. Hopefully in the next couple of years he gets tired of it all and sells. If not, be happy Loria with revenue sharing because that will be basically the only money you'll have coming in.

There is no plan dude. There never has been. Oh I think there's a plan, it's just kept very close to the vest of Jeffrey Loria.