ASOT

It is not a Miami fans problem, it is an ownership problem. I talked to a lot of people at the ballpark and their main complaint was that they feel Loria doesn't give a sh*t about them or about the team. It's both the fans and ownership. FO went out and spent last year, people still didn't show up. They spent in 05, people didn't show up. The casual fan has made excuse after excuse after excuse not to go, they had none last year until mid-June when the team started to tank. It's not just the ownership.Toronto Blue Jays attendance 2012 2,099,663, avg 25,922 Miami Marlins 2012 attendance 2219444, avg 27,401 I'm pretty sure more people ACTUALLY showed up to Toronto's games rather than bought a ticket and said, "f*** it we ain't going" as was the case with the Fish. "Turnstile Clicks" Not sure how you can be so sure. If you notice, many games in other places have loads of empty seats, while attendance figures are higher. Toronto is one of those places where the blue seats have been empty in vast quantities. We'll see if this year for them, if they win, will be different. I really do not care because we are stuck with our reality of ownership, regardless of how other owners operate, but most places are not Wrigley, Fenway or St Louis. I have a friend that lives in Washington State and I often call him late at night when there is a Mariners game and we watch together. This is a pic of part of the stadium from the 2nd inning for the game against Houston. It was about 7:30pm local time. This is more the norm than the exception the last two years, yet this ownership made it a priority to sign King Felix to one of the largest contracts ever. Smart maybe not, but at least they showed some loyalty to their fanbase.

It is not a Miami fans problem, it is an ownership problem. I talked to a lot of people at the ballpark and their main complaint was that they feel Loria doesn't give a sh*t about them or about the team. It's both the fans and ownership. FO went out and spent last year, people still didn't show up. They spent in 05, people didn't show up. The casual fan has made excuse after excuse after excuse not to go, they had none last year until mid-June when the team started to tank. It's not just the ownership.Toronto Blue Jays attendance 2012 2,099,663, avg 25,922 Miami Marlins 2012 attendance 2219444, avg 27,401 I'm pretty sure more people ACTUALLY showed up to Toronto's games rather than bought a ticket and said, "f*** it we ain't going" as was the case with the Fish. "Turnstile Clicks" I don't know about that as I have MLB Extra Innings and watch a lot of baseball other than the Marlins games. I saw a number of games last year with the Jays (because my family knows the family of JP Arencibia) and saw that many times there was Sun Life type of crowds unless it was a Yankee or Red Sox game. I remember one game when they played KC it may have been no more than in the hundreds at the game and the weather was perfect and the roof open.

Blue Jays are owned by a multi billion dollar corporation. They can take a risk easier. Then Loria needs to sell, he can't afford to be an owner. I mean how fun can this be for him if he wants to win. It looks like he has a team that will lose 90+ games and finish last for the 3rd year in a row, with what prospects for the future ? If the pattern continues, he is trading Stanton in the next year or so, then Fernandez by 2015 and Yelich the year after that. There is nothing for fans to cling to, not a shred of a reason to become loyal to the Marlins. Doesn't Loria get that or is it always just going to be about pocketbook issues 1st ? Again if that's the case he needs to get out of MLB and go back to AAA where money is not as much of an issue.

Horsefeathers. There has never been any significant base of paying Marlins fans and there still isn't to this day. About 5,000 before and after the stadium. Pitiful. And who was "pilfered"? Tourists? If you want to make the argument that someone was "pilfered" the logical objects of that are people who work in the local hotel industry -- they are the ones who suffer from lower employment than would otherwise be the case in the absence of the 6% hotel-bed tax (1% of ) which pays for the stadium. But, that tax was enacted long ago and the stadium didn't raise it one iota, unlike what the Dolphins want to do. Loria will spend money only as revenue justifies it, as they have repeatedly said. When they get optimistic and stick their necks out and then get them chopped off to the tune of 47 mill when the fans don't show up they have to cut back drastically. '12 was a total financial disaster. Until fans figure this simple equation out, it will continue to be the case, no matter who owns the team. This ain't New York and Loria ain't Steinbrenner. And there are at least 10 MLB owners with equally lousy records -- starting with the Cubs. Fans can either show up or watch the cycle repeat ad infinitum, no owner will tolerate large losses. Then why build the stadium ? If the fan base never existed then why didn't he abandon the stadium in south Florida and move the team ? It just doesn't make any sense.

This is the sad state of major league baseball in Miami right now. It's so sad, and so unneccessary. Sometimes I really wish Loria had taken the team to Las Vegas or San Antonio. That's such a dumb comment. Within 5 years, Loria will be gone and the Marlins will be here forever. If you can't put up with a few bad seasons, then you aren't much of a baseball fan. Not really, because of today's media coverage, I can follow the Marlins whether or not I live in Miami, and there is other baseball played locally if I want to see it. Granted its not MLB but its there if you wish to see live baseball. I also travel extensively at times and get to visit a lot of MLB cities, and can always catch a game when I am in those towns. It would just go back to the way it was before the Marlins. And as for Loria, some here speculate that he'll be the owner for a long time, and that after him, will come Samson, who will probably act the same or worse than Loria, so where is the hope ?

It is not a Miami fans problem, it is an ownership problem. I talked to a lot of people at the ballpark and their main complaint was that they feel Loria doesn't give a sh*t about them or about the team. It's both the fans and ownership. FO went out and spent last year, people still didn't show up. They spent in 05, people didn't show up. The casual fan has made excuse after excuse after excuse not to go, they had none last year until mid-June when the team started to tank. It's not just the ownership. As for the fans, he had to have known, unless he is just totally clueless, that this fanbase was fragile and tenative. They didn't trust him, and it was going to take time to win them back completely. If he and his people around him didn't know this or cared to do research and find out, then its their own stupidity. Personally I don't think he or his people are that stupid, but that this was all pre-meditated. Because the reactions were too swift. I think he had a clue that people wouldn't show, he did what MLB expected him to do, and that is spend some money to make a show (made Selig happy), and if they catch lightning and win & crowds come its all good, if they don't you break it down ASAP and save as much money as you can. Of course no one except Loria really knows, and all we can do is speculate.

It is not a Miami fans problem, it is an ownership problem. I talked to a lot of people at the ballpark and their main complaint was that they feel Loria doesn't give a sh*t about them or about the team. It's both the fans and ownership. FO went out and spent last year, people still didn't show up. They spent in 05, people didn't show up. The casual fan has made excuse after excuse after excuse not to go, they had none last year until mid-June when the team started to tank. It's not just the ownership. So it makes you wonder why Loria wanted to stay here ? Didn't he do any research on how it would go ? I still think it's more on ownership than anything else. People here have had negative feelings towards the franchise and this ownership for years and years, and it may just have been broken beyond repair. Now after last year and off-season it is completely broken, and I can safely say no matter what, even with playoffs, there is a great deal of South Fla that just will never care as long as this owner is still here. He completely broke the trust, and has definitely made a lot of enemies in City and County Hall. He will probably never, ever get help from them ever again. I believe they might make a lukewarm show of support if Loria wants an All-Star Game here in the future, but they will do just what they have to do on the surface. That could undermine any chance we have of landing the game. Now because fans will probably never show, he has his built in excuse to never raise the payroll. It's his automatic cash cow of revenue sharing and who knows, maybe that was really what he was after all along. He gets his stadium, gets to screw the fans (who he thinks just won't show up not because of anything he has done), gets to add value (the new stadium) to his team in case someone makes a really stupid big offer to buy. I'm sure some will admire him here as a very smart and savvy businessman. Kudo's to you, he is your hero ! But he also leaves a path of destruction behind him, in a wrecked & broken fanbase, political enemies, the screwing other local franchises (the Dolphins). I'm sure he doesn't care, and thinks its all a joke. But you know karma seems to always be a funny lady and seems to strike when you least expect it. For those that think he really cares about the team, then how can he put the product on the field and have the balls to charge what he does for tickets and concessions ? It looks like its more about the money than anything else. Then again for those who think he's a great businessman you have your hero, good deal for you. I'm happy for you. I think eventually other more powerful owners will get tired of subsidizing Loria's team (and growing art collection paid for by the money he makes from the Marlins) and will fight back. He probably has 2 more years and they are looking at him closely to see if he really does want to put together a winner. Now if this is all about selling the team and setting it up for that, then I am sure they might aleady be in the know and are silent on it because of that. It's all speculation I guess, but it would be great if we came here just to talk about baseball and not about an owner. But this team is so bad, what more can be said ? Maybe less is better about that abomination we have on the field.

This is the sad state of major league baseball in Miami right now. It's so sad, and so unneccessary. Sometimes I really wish Loria had taken the team to Las Vegas or San Antonio. That's a foolish comment. Your not a fan of baseball in South Florida if you'd rather see it get relocated. Not at all. I'm more of a fan of South Fla I guess because its my hometown. The Marlins have for most of their ownership under Loria have been an embarrassment and fodder for late night talk show hosts. If I had known this is the way it would have turned out, I would have rather not had MLB here at all. Because this is nothing but a huge let down, and it makes you ponder what could have been under the right owner. Hopefully the rumors you keep hearing that Loria will sell when those penalties go away are true, and again its sad that that is only reason you have some hope about the future of the team. It gets tiring talking about the poor ownership (literally and figuratively) and I daydream about the day we can come here and talk about nothing but ERA's, the farm and what an exciting game that was last night.

ASOT, it wouldn't have made a difference. Loria is so bad that he would have found a way to alienate any fan base, no matter where he took the team. People don't feel like going when they feel that the ownership has nothing but contempt for them. It is not a Miami fans problem, it is an ownership problem. I talked to a lot of people at the ballpark and their main complaint was that they feel Loria doesn't give a sh*t about them or about the team. Well he cares about the team, just not about winning. He cares about maximizing his profits 1st and foremost and winning is a distant 2nd. Anyone that can refute that, can try, but his actions show where his heart is.

This is the sad state of major league baseball in Miami right now. It's so sad, and so unneccessary. Sometimes I really wish Loria had taken the team to Las Vegas or San Antonio. ok no. how about just get rid of loria? Well yeah, I'd like that better, but he's not going anywhere. Too bad as that means I have to be deprived of watching MLB in person unless I am in another MLB city and decide to go to a game while traveling.

Are we having a thread for this every night? The mods should delete every negative post on this board ... just to see what is left when they are done. A few posts by everyone else and like 1,000 by ...

You really can't blame Loria, but this is all on Bud Selig. He should be getting more heat from the local fans and national writers. Selig cares about image, and as long as the Marlins get as little coverage as possible, he can let it be swept under the carpet. What we need to do is get 2 or more national writers on board with this, and keep the pressure on. If the team starts getting into historic loss area, do an email campaign to national writers to chide Selig as much as Loria. If the rhetoric gets loud enough, Selig MIGHT do something. I can't count on it, but other than that, there probably is nothing that can be done about it. It's such a shame, because I grew up here in Miami always hoping and wishing we'd have a MLB team. That dream has become a nightmare and in reality, I wish Huizenga had been turned down by MLB in seeking a team, and this embarrassment and black mark on Miami would have never happened. And yes those two WS titles don't make up for this now, and what looks like it could be the foreseeable future. Unless Loria croaks this is our future : seek out one stud in the draft, trade him for a bunch of prospects and hope to catch lighting in a bottle, then dismantle and reload all over again. It's a bullshit way to run a franchise, but it's the best way for Loria to maximize his profits, and with him, that always comes above winning.

We started 11-31 in 2006! That's my 2006 post for the thread... All we gotta do, is go 10-23 from now to reach that mark! LET'S SHOOT FOR THE STARS! You really think this team will win 10 of the next 33 ? I don't. This could be 55 or less wins this year. I hope Loria is proud of himself.

There's always 2018 guys Which will cause more celebration in Miami ? The death of Fidel Castro or Jeffrey Loria ?

projected at this pace the Marlins would be shut out 72 times. I don't even think these guys could do that badly

I thought the stadium was owned by the city/county? The stadium is 100% owned by M-D county. However, the Marlins are the "sole and exclusive operator and manager" of it. With "sole responsibility and authority and full control and discretion in the operation, direction, management and supervision of the Stadium Premises." http://www.miamidade.gov/internalservices/library/operating_agreement.pdf And that's the end of any contention along the lines of "the Marlins shouldn't have the right" to do whatever because they have the absolute right to throw anyone out of the joint for any reason they deem sufficient. Hell, an UMPIRE can eject a fan, never mind Marlins management and their agents. You want to buy a ticket to my event and then try to rain on my parade? You're going to be asked to leave and if you don't leave peacefully, you'll be forcibly ejected from the premises. Do you have a bookmark folder with this stuff ready to go? Or do you just search the company network? I know it's really weird. Only Admin knows who he really is and I guess he won't tell anyone, but the more I read it has to be someone in the front office.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/eye-on-baseball/22032264/marlins-fans-with-protesting-signs-shirts-ejected-from-stadium Apparently the Marlins ejected a couple of fans from the home opener who were holding signs and wearing shirts saying Free the Marlins and that the Marlins have been "Helping other teams get better since 1998." The Marlins/Samson are saying the fans were causing a disturbance and didn't show ID when requested, but that they weren't ejected because of their signs and shirts. Meanwhile the fans say they were calm and orderly, never created a disturbance, and weren't asked for ID until they were already out of the ballpark. The fans also claim that police officers even said something to the extent of "'they' want you out, if it was up to us you're ok because you're doing nothing wrong." Not sure who to believe here, the fans seem civil but then again, even with all their trickery the Marlins don't usually eject fans for no reason. Thoughts? Who has more credibility right now ? I think most (maybe not on this board) people will believe the fans. I know I do.

39-123....here we come.... -_- As ridiculous as that sounds, its more credible than it is silly. That is extremely sad and MLB needs to do something. It's just not right that South Fla is being used this way.

And as much as people want to compare this team to 2006....the talent discrepancy isnt even close. I think this is easily the worst team the Marlins have ever fielded. At least in hindsight 1998 had talent. It was raw but talented. This team is just has nothing but Stanton and Fernandez every 5th day. That's pretty sad, and an embarrassment for Loria. I know people say he doesn't care, but even he has to be embarrassed by what we have seen so far.

put i do see better Attendance for sat because of Jose Fernandez Yeah, the park will be full of Cubans Butts in seats are butts in seats.....

This is the sad state of major league baseball in Miami right now. It's so sad, and so unneccessary. Sometimes I really wish Loria had taken the team to Las Vegas or San Antonio.

I love this team but this is the most frustrated I have ever been. I would take last years team before having to watch this group of aging or minor league players, regardless of how many wins they brought. Most have no future or are nothing more than utility players. There is no power outside of Stanton. This is rough. Just remember, Samson said it was all about winning, and we didn't win enough last year. He said we'll win more this year. Okay I won't mention that again, I know but I want to make sure its seared into some people's brains so they don't forget what Samson said.

Can we get on the historically bad bandwagon now please? 49-113. By the way, what is the significance of 5-21? i started topic about going 5-21 one mod take it off site i do think could happen But where do they get the 4 wins ?

Why is AJ Ramos on this team? Why are we so bad? Why do I keep watching this sinking ship? Because we're the Marlins. Because we're owned by Loria. Because you were a passenger on the Titanic in your last life.

OMFG we scored