July 13, 200421 yr http://www.cefa.fsu.edu/lynch.html Tim Lynch, Ph.D. 456471[/snapback] the guy was HIRED by the tourism industry to conduct his analysis. he is a lobbyist.
July 13, 200421 yr Author Ridership: Metrorail averages approximately 48,039 daily weekday boardings. Total for FY 2003 was 14,306,084. http://www.co.miami-dade.fl.us/transit/facts.asp Fluor-Bombardier-Virgin and Disney have given financial guarantees to ridership and costs. No public transit system can claim that kind of support. 456480[/snapback] are you trying to imply taht over 48,000 people would ride the bullet train daily to disney world from those locations you mentioned? 456486[/snapback] No, Disney and the consortium, have guaranteed the money for that amount of ridership.
July 13, 200421 yr Author The Acela train in the Northeast is Amtrak's high speed train and it's ridership is higher than any other train and has become the best way to travel between the major cities in the northeast. It runs from Washington to Boston. The Florida Bullet Train would connect St. Pete-Tampa-Orlando-Palm Beach-Ft. Lauderdale-Miami and their airports.
July 13, 200421 yr No, Disney and the consortium, have guaranteed the money for that amount of ridership. 456492[/snapback] what on earth does that mean? you made the completely fictitious assertion that the bullet train would be put to more use than the MDT metrorail, which has a 48,000 daily ridership over 22 miles of track. you realize this bullet train would span hundreds and hundreds of miles and would be put solely to recreational use, right? people won't be taking it to work.
July 13, 200421 yr Author Here is the Authority's 2004 report http://www.floridahighspeedrail.com/upload...20&%20Cover.pdf
July 13, 200421 yr Author No, Disney and the consortium, have guaranteed the money for that amount of ridership. 456492[/snapback] what on earth does that mean? you made the completely fictitious assertion that the bullet train would be put to more use than the MDT metrorail, which has a 14,000 daily ridership over 22 miles of track. you realize this bullet train would span hundreds and hundreds of miles and would be put solely to recreational use, right? people won't be taking it to work. 456499[/snapback] The bullet train would be used for intercity travel. Big difference than commuter travel. It will bridge the gap between Amtrak and a thing like Tri-Rail in our state. MetroRail is a rail system that is within a city. Disney and the consortium will cover all the costs except the $75 million a year the state must pay during the construction years. After it is done, the private company will run it and require no subsidy. MetroRail is a big money loser for Dade County.
July 13, 200421 yr Author May I remind everyone that this has already been passed by Florida voters as a constitutional amendment in the 2000 election. Construction started in late 2003.
July 13, 200421 yr from your own link: The Authority's ridership study estimated annual ridership within the corridor between Tampa, Lakeland and Orlando by both local residents and visitors (Greeneway alignment) in 2010 to range from 1,657,000 - 1,904,000 generating revenues of $27.9 to $29.7 million. This is anticipated to grow to ridership of 2,450,000 - 2,844,000 and revenues of $41.6 - $44.5 million by 2025.
July 13, 200421 yr from your own link: The Authority's ridership study estimated annual ridership within the corridor between Tampa, Lakeland and Orlando by both local residents and visitors (Greeneway alignment) in 2010 to range from 1,657,000 - 1,904,000 generating revenues of $27.9 to $29.7 million. This is anticipated to grow to ridership of 2,450,000 - 2,844,000 and revenues of $41.6 - $44.5 million by 2025. 456508[/snapback] That's much less than the metrorail no?
July 13, 200421 yr Fluor, Bombardier, and Virgin (yes as in Virgin Airlines, Mobile, Music, and Group) are the companies working on this project. 456400[/snapback] Ugh, not Virgin. When I was in England, Virgin trains were always breaking down and only had like a 66% on time rating or something like that. Granted, when they work, they're very nice, but I'd rather have a more proven company. I wouldn't mind a bullet train, especially since it hits all the major cities, but I don't think it'll ever happen.
July 13, 200421 yr The bullet train would be used for intercity travel. Big difference than commuter travel. 456504[/snapback] that is precisely why the costs do not outweigh the benefits for this gigantic project. hundreds of miles of track will be used much, much less than other types of public transport. MetroRail is a big money loser for Dade County.456504[/snapback] every form of mass rail transit is a "big money loser". the astronomical cost of the bullet train will guarantee that this will be the biggest money loser in florida.
July 13, 200421 yr alkazoid, How can you defend the money losing MetroRail and not this? 456513[/snapback] i honestly dont think it has occurred to you that the state would be losing money from building a bullet train. it is undoubtedly a losing proposition.
July 13, 200421 yr Author alkazoid, How can you defend the money losing MetroRail and not this? 456513[/snapback] i honestly dont think it has occurred to you that the state would be losing money from building a bullet train. it is undoubtedly a losing proposition. 456518[/snapback] But you gain a system that actually has a purpose and in the long term will make a profit and improve transportation in the state.
July 13, 200421 yr Author from your own link: The Authority's ridership study estimated annual ridership within the corridor between Tampa, Lakeland and Orlando by both local residents and visitors (Greeneway alignment) in 2010 to range from 1,657,000 - 1,904,000 generating revenues of $27.9 to $29.7 million. This is anticipated to grow to ridership of 2,450,000 - 2,844,000 and revenues of $41.6 - $44.5 million by 2025. 456508[/snapback] MetroRail Revenues: Total for FY 2003 was $14,307,830.
July 13, 200421 yr Author With the Authority's adjustments mentioned above and using the (yet to be negotiated) financial data offered by Fluor-Bombardier, the plan of finance still results in all but $287 million of the State investment being repaid over the 30 year operating period.
July 13, 200421 yr from your own link: The Authority's ridership study estimated annual ridership within the corridor between Tampa, Lakeland and Orlando by both local residents and visitors (Greeneway alignment) in 2010 to range from 1,657,000 - 1,904,000 generating revenues of $27.9 to $29.7 million. This is anticipated to grow to ridership of 2,450,000 - 2,844,000 and revenues of $41.6 - $44.5 million by 2025. 456508[/snapback] MetroRail Revenues: Total for FY 2003 was $14,307,830. 456522[/snapback] :lol metrorail spans 22 miles! it costs 75 cents a ride! this has nothing to do with revenues or profits. the purpose of commuter train systems--just like the purpose of public roads--is to provide a service. new york city subway, washington metrorail, all of em generate a loss.
July 13, 200421 yr MetroRail will NEVER see profits. 456526[/snapback] duh. nor will NYC subway or obviously this bullet train.
July 13, 200421 yr alkazoid, How can you defend the money losing MetroRail and not this? 456513[/snapback] i honestly dont think it has occurred to you that the state would be losing money from building a bullet train. it is undoubtedly a losing proposition. 456518[/snapback] But you gain a system that actually has a purpose and in the long term will make a profit and improve transportation in the state. 456520[/snapback] it will not make a penny of profit considering the construction costs and even the florida bullet train proponent website wouldn't be foolish enough to claim that.
July 13, 200421 yr Author MetroRail will NEVER see profits. 456526[/snapback] duh. nor will NYC subway or obviously this bullet train. 456529[/snapback] That is where you are wrong, this bullet train will turn a profit. The state will see everything but the amount i quoted above. Federal funding will help pay that difference.
July 13, 200421 yr Author alkazoid, How can you defend the money losing MetroRail and not this? 456513[/snapback] i honestly dont think it has occurred to you that the state would be losing money from building a bullet train. it is undoubtedly a losing proposition. 456518[/snapback] But you gain a system that actually has a purpose and in the long term will make a profit and improve transportation in the state. 456520[/snapback] it will not make a penny of profit considering the construction costs and even the florida bullet train proponent website wouldn't be foolish enough to claim that. 456531[/snapback] The state is subsidizing the construction, the train will turn a profit, but it's expected service lifespan is not long enough to repay the state and reap enough profits for the private partnership to do it.
July 13, 200421 yr Author But you also have to look at the service this will offer. If you can back MetroRail and it's terrible money losing ways, you most certainly should back this project. Once it gets online, it will be self supporting.
July 13, 200421 yr That is where you are wrong, this bullet train will turn a profit. The state will see everything but the amount i quoted above. Federal funding will help pay that difference. 456532[/snapback] we've come to a factual point-of-no-return here. if the state pays $75 million a year for construction, it most certainly isnt turning a "profit". fact is, if a bullet train were capable of turning profit, private entites would be all over it. there would be no need for state funding.
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