November 14, 200421 yr How about instead of all the wishful speculation, you actually post what happens when it happens. The Florida Marlins have nothing to do with the Montreal Expos other than our owner is your former owner and this team will not be taken away. The State of Florida will make sure of this!
November 14, 200421 yr It would be helpful if Sports1131 understood the difference between an arbitrator's decision (which is not binding) and a judge's ruling (which is), and further that he was willing to post both sides of the issue rather than his one sided rant against Loria and company rather than admitting that Montreal cannot support a major league franchise. The people of Montreal are simply the worst baseball fans in North America, plain and simple. I continue to believe the Toronto Globe and Mail summed up the situation correctly, describing Loria as a "scapegoat" for the failures the previous ownership group who to a person destroyed baseball in Montreal with an undoable grandiose plan meant to bolster their egos. Shame on them.
November 14, 200421 yr People in Montreal blame Ted Rogers (Blue Jays owner) as well for the loss of the Expos. I mean just because he owns Rogers Sportsnet and The FAN Radio Network, which airs the Blue Jays, doesn't mean he has to air the Expos. Montreal fans cry that MLB and Loria had a conspiracy to drive the Expos out so Toronto could have Canada to themselves, but then why didn't one of these "owners" now litigating do anything? The "owner" I speak of is Bell Globe media. They own TSN (Canada's ESPN), they own the CTV TV Network, they own RDS (French version of TSN/ESPN), they own the Toronto Globe and Mail (which editorialized on the side of Loria) and they also own Canada's version of DirecTV or Dish Network named Bell ExpressVu which delivers service to millions of Canadians via Dishes. Bell could have aired every Expos game between CTV, TSN, RDS, and a pay per view channel on ExpressVu if they wanted to really save the team. But Bell, as part owner of the team, didn't see the business support to air the games on TV. Now they turn around and sue Loria. Seem funny to anyone? Here is Bell Globemedia's website: http://www.bellglobemedia.ca Look at their broadcast assets here: http://www.bellglobemedia.ca/x/?cid=2546#broadcasting CTV could have aired the games on CFCF-12 in Montreal and TSN in English, more games in French on RDS, but instead aired the minimum to look good on RDS and punted the English rights until they ended up on The Score. Can you imagine baseball on ESPNews? That is what Expos telecasts were like in 2004. The Expos French Radio was good, but English needed help from sponsors. A gambling website and Mercedes-Benz dealer saved the Expos for 3 years from not having English radio.
November 14, 200421 yr Well, it is true that MLB's decision to hand the Blue Jays nearly the entire TV market of Ontario hurt the Expos. The reputable former owner of the Expos, Charles Bronfman, and long-time play-by-play man for the Expos and now the Marlins, Dave Van Horne point specifically to that decision 20 years ago as the beginning of the Expos' decline. In reality no one really knew at the time. Sure, Cable television was growing, but most figured it would act as a promotional tool, not generate 15, 20 or even 50 million in revenue annually. The sport left Montreal behind. It was a small market that could only generate so much revenue for the club. As the focus of owners moved away from putting butts into seats and towards expanding its markets locally, nationally and internationally Montreal could no longer support a MLB franchise.
November 14, 200421 yr Well, it is true that MLB's decision to hand the Blue Jays nearly the entire TV market of Ontario hurt the Expos. The reputable former owner of the Expos, Charles Bronfman, and long-time play-by-play man for the Expos and now the Marlins, Dave Van Horne point specifically to that decision 20 years ago as the beginning of the Expos' decline. In reality no one really knew at the time. Sure, Cable television was growing, but most figured it would act as a promotional tool, not generate 15, 20 or even 50 million in revenue annually. The sport left Montreal behind. It was a small market that could only generate so much revenue for the club. As the focus of owners moved away from putting butts into seats and towards expanding its markets locally, nationally and internationally Montreal could no longer support a MLB franchise. 614498[/snapback] They came up with a system where 50 Expos games got shown in Ontario and 50 Blue Jays games got shown in Quebec, but the Expos left the TV contract after several years. Brochu didn't want English broadcasts, he wanted them only in French.
November 15, 200421 yr Some of you are stunning to me right now in how you refer to Expos fans. No Marlin fan should ever critisize another teams fans as being bad or of having left the team. For goodness sakes it was only 3 years ago that this team was on the verge of elimination with the Expos. It was only three years ago that a "surprise buyer" had to buy tickets to keep us from hitting dead last in attendance to surpass the Expos. We should all empathize with these guys. Had it not been for the world series run, which not one of us could have predicted, our team might be next in line for Portland. We wouldnt be talking stadium. The bandwagon fans of S. Florida would not have just come back for no reason. What boils my blood is that some of the insults some of you are throwing at this fan are the same ones people threw at us. Fans like those of the Red Sox spit at Marlin fans as being the worst fans in sports. People still say we are because we dont sell out for a world series champ. But we offer them the reasons and we know those generalizations are wrong. Why do we use the same generalizations against the fans of Montreal? The team worked out there for a long time before the Marlins were around. Just like how we point to post1997, they point to the strike. We point to trades of stars...look at the list of stars their fans have lost. The blatant refusal to realize the situation people are in- It just goes to show how quickly people can forget. I will shed a tear the day a Marlin fan says another team should be contracted. It's gonna happen soon though.
November 15, 200421 yr Some of you are stunning to me right now in how you refer to Expos fans. No Marlin fan should ever critisize another teams fans as being bad or of having left the team. For goodness sakes it was only 3 years ago that this team was on the verge of elimination with the Expos. It was only three years ago that a "surprise buyer" had to buy tickets to keep us from hitting dead last in attendance to surpass the Expos. We should all empathize with these guys. Had it not been for the world series run, which not one of us could have predicted, our team might be next in line for Portland. We wouldnt be talking stadium. The bandwagon fans of S. Florida would not have just come back for no reason. What boils my blood is that some of the insults some of you are throwing at this fan are the same ones people threw at us. Fans like those of the Red Sox spit at Marlin fans as being the worst fans in sports. People still say we are because we dont sell out for a world series champ. But we offer them the reasons and we know those generalizations are wrong. Why do we use the same generalizations against the fans of Montreal? The team worked out there for a long time before the Marlins were around. Just like how we point to post1997, they point to the strike. We point to trades of stars...look at the list of stars their fans have lost. The blatant refusal to realize the situation people are in- It just goes to show how quickly people can forget. I will shed a tear the day a Marlin fan says another team should be contracted. It's gonna happen soon though. 614738[/snapback] I don't forget f_m I suffered year after year watching a bottom feeder. Those years were something that I will never forget. It helped me become a better baseball fan, it taught me to see beyond wins and losses, and it brought bigger joy to what happened in 2003. So don't ever tell me that I forgot what happened between '98-'02.
November 15, 200421 yr They came up with a system where 50 Expos games got shown in Ontario and 50 Blue Jays games got shown in Quebec, but the Expos left the TV contract after several years. Brochu didn't want English broadcasts, he wanted them only in French. 614502[/snapback] I believe it was only 18 games. Either way, it was a bad trade-off. The Ontario market is huge and much better than Quebec. No Marlin fan should ever critisize another teams fans as being bad or of having left the team. 614738[/snapback] True. Not even a Cardinals/Sox/Yankees fan should be saying the things that have in this thread. However the troubles the Marlins and Expos face can not be compared. One is a large-market with a significant transplanted population that has been held back by the lack of any stadium revenue. The other is a below-average market handicapped by the exchange rate and extraordinary local and national laws on personal income, language and cable TV rights.
November 15, 200421 yr All of the items highlighted in that message are allegations. There is no mention of a document to support the allegations. the one writing is the contract which stipulates that loria could make capital calls. It is difficult to prove a conspiracy. As far as the TV market in ontario, it is ironic that they are moving to DC while angelos complains they will steal some of his market.
November 15, 200421 yr It was 50 games a piece nationally. In the last few years it was only within 50 miles of either Stade Olympique or SkyDome. The Score had the Expos nationwide like TSN and Rogers had the Blue Jays nationwide this past year. Other than Ontario and Quebec, which were exclusive to the Blue Jays and Expos respectively, you had all the other provinces which supported BOTH teams in television rights. The reason the Expos weren't on national TV is because the media in Quebec was not willing to support the team. The Blue Jays are owned by Rogers so they have a full TV and radio package, but the Expos who were partially owned by Bell Globemedia and could have easily had an Expos TV like the Leafs and Raptors have or signed a deal with TSN to broadcast games locally via TSN's Quebec feed in english. But no one in Montreal was willing to take the "losses" and demanded payment from the Expos. The Expos were in Quebec which is majority French, but Montreal is an English-speaking city and no English exposure means the closest fans to the ballpark never got exposed to the team TV with regularity. English radio on 990 was not bad, but required the two sponsors, an internet casino and Mercedes-Benz dealer, to pony up alot of money for the Expos, buy time on 990, and then sell the ads or use the ad time for their own ads. When Loria owned the Expos, The Team 990 was Oldies 990 and the news/talk station the previously carried the Expos (CIQC-AM 600) switched from 600 to 940 and became CINW 940NEWS which could not carry sports. CJAD 800 am would have been the natural choice but they said no to the Expos. The Expos even tried to go back to Vermont or Plattsburgh, NY radio just like they had in 1969, but they could not as other teams (Yankees, Mets, Red Sox) had claimed the areas or signed deals with the stations to be affiliates. (WEAV 960 in Plattsburgh, NY and WSNO 1450 in Barre, Vermont were Expos affiliates up until around 1999 I believe) WEAV at one time I believe was a main Expos affiliate, maybe even the flagship, but they wouldn't take the losses to air the Expos because the ratings in North New York/Vermont were poor and they could not get ratings in Montreal. Too bad CBC Radio 1 in Montreal couldn't air the Expos. Had the CBC package become reality with the CBC and SRC handling most TV and Radio in both languages the Expos would likely exist in Montreal and be healthy. CKGM would not become The Team 990 until May 2001, too late for the 2001 season, but the Expos and 990 did air games from 2002-2004 without much issue. Franch Radio on CKAC (and CKOO-FM in 2004 only) continued the whole time.
November 15, 200421 yr i hope some big money guy comes along and buys this team off Loria cause all this nickle and dime thing sucks....
November 15, 200421 yr i hope some big money guy comes along and buys this team off Loria cause all this nickle and dime thing sucks.... 615015[/snapback] :blink: Nickle and dime? The man spends $20 million of his own money every year that he knows he won't get back to keep this team afloat so we may enjoy it. Is $20 million a year losses not rich enough for you?
November 15, 200421 yr i hope some big money guy comes along and buys this team off Loria cause all this nickle and dime thing sucks.... 615015[/snapback] :blink: Nickle and dime? The man spends $20 million of his own money every year that he knows he won't get back to keep this team afloat so we may enjoy it. Is $20 million a year losses not rich enough for you? 615017[/snapback] No its not...if u dont have the money to build a ball park and keep your star players why have a team...think about it,if every year your gonna lose money and loose your key players whats the point of owning a team...am sorry i just dont think someone that doesnt have the money should be able to buy MLB teams...
November 15, 200421 yr i hope some big money guy comes along and buys this team off Loria cause all this nickle and dime thing sucks.... 615015[/snapback] :blink: Nickle and dime? The man spends $20 million of his own money every year that he knows he won't get back to keep this team afloat so we may enjoy it. Is $20 million a year losses not rich enough for you? 615017[/snapback] No its not...if u dont have the money to build a ball park and keep your star players why have a team...think about it,if every year your gonna lose money and loose your key players whats the point of owning a team...am sorry i just dont think someone that doesnt have the money should be able to buy MLB teams... 615045[/snapback] No one else would buy the Marlins. We had no choice other than to fold.
November 15, 200421 yr i hope some big money guy comes along and buys this team off Loria cause all this nickle and dime thing sucks.... 615015[/snapback] :blink: Nickle and dime? The man spends $20 million of his own money every year that he knows he won't get back to keep this team afloat so we may enjoy it. Is $20 million a year losses not rich enough for you? 615017[/snapback] No its not...if u dont have the money to build a ball park and keep your star players why have a team...think about it,if every year your gonna lose money and loose your key players whats the point of owning a team...am sorry i just dont think someone that doesnt have the money should be able to buy MLB teams... 615045[/snapback] No one else would buy the Marlins. We had no choice other than to fold. 615055[/snapback] Wonder why Bill Gates has never considered buying a team? THAT would be awesome!!! A billion dollar stadium and a 500 million dollar payroll.
November 15, 200421 yr i mean if its him or nothing of course i take him,but i hope this stadium thing gets done so he can afford to keep the players...also lets get out butts in those seats next year rain or shine...i know its tuff for late workers but everyone else should be there...
November 15, 200421 yr i mean if its him or nothing of course i take him,but i hope this stadium thing gets done so he can afford to keep the players...also lets get out butts in those seats next year rain or shine...i know its tuff for late workers but everyone else should be there... 615078[/snapback] then what are you arguing about? Loria has a plan for growth and the fan attendance has exceeded it for 2 years in a row! We averaged over the planned 20k a night this season. I believe the aim for 2005 is 24k a night.
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.