Holy Shi'ite! Islam's double standard

http://www.NewsAndOpinion.com | The Pentagon has acknowledged five instances in which guards or interrogators at the detention facility in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, handled the Koran in such a way as to cause offense to some who believe it is the revealed word of Allah. Three are said to have been three deliberate and two unintentional.

 

Amnesty International has put the United States high on the list of countries it says are guilty of prisoner and human rights abuses because of the way suspected terrorists are treated. The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, General Richard Myers, rebutted the notion of inappropriate treatment of detainees last weekend when he told Fox News Sunday that these are people who would "slit our throats, our children's throats" were they to be set free.

 

 

Islamic countries apply a double standard when it comes to the treatment of "holy books" and people who differ in faith and practice from Islamic dogma. While Islamic groups in the United States are engaged in "sensitivity training" sessions for non-Muslims that have included federal workers, the Ohio National Guard and U.S. Air Force Academy, there are no such training sessions directed at Muslims to teach them tolerance for non-Islamic faiths. Quite the contrary.

 

 

While the slightest verbal or physical slight of any Muslim in America is immediately condemned by activist groups and sometimes the U.S. government, the denigration of Jews and Christians throughout much of the Islamic world is theological and political business as usual. Jews are regularly referred to as "apes and pigs," mostly because that is what the Koran calls them.

 

 

According to the MEMRI-TV Monitor Project, which observes the way Jews, especially, are portrayed throughout the Middle East, a Jordanian produced program titled "Stories From Before the Verses Came Down" was aired in February on Saudi Iqra TV. The soap opera contained familiar anti-Semitic stuff, including blaming ancient Jews for distorting their own Torah to make it seem like Mohammad could not be the "true prophet" and portraying a Jewish character saying, "We are the slayers of prophets, and we live off their blood! We live for destroying them"

 

 

According to a report authored by former CIA Director James Woolsey for Freedom House, the government of Saudi Arabia has made it a practice to disseminate propaganda about Jews, Christians and America through mosques in the U.S. and through schools, many of which are funded by the extremist Wahhabi Islamic sect.

 

 

The 89-page report titled, "Saudi publications on hate ideology fill American mosques," concludes that propaganda collected from U.S. mosques shows a "totalitarian ideology of hatred that can incite to violence." The report also says such mosques are in the minority, but how many are needed to train terrorists who might attack the U.S. with biological, chemical or nuclear weapons?

 

 

 

 

 

Throughout much of the Islamic world, the practice of Christianity and Judaism is severely restricted, if not outlawed. The Freedom House report said Saudi publications "state that it is a religious obligation for Muslims to hate Christians and Jews" and that, under Saudi law, Muslims who convert to any other faith "are to be put to death."

 

 

In a column four years ago, The Washington Post's Richard Cohen wrote, "The Arab world is the last bastion of unbridled, unashamed, unhidden and unbelievable anti-Semitism. Hitlerian myths get published in the popular press as incontrovertible truths. The Holocaust either gets minimized or denied. ? How the Arab world will ever come to terms with Israel when Israelis are portrayed as the devil incarnate is hard to figure out." Little, if anything, has changed since he wrote those words.

 

 

Despite the Western diplomatic talk about Arabs and Palestinians living in peace with even a geographically reduced Israel, the Arab world demonstrates no intention of coming to terms with Israel or the Jewish (or Christian) people, unless those terms involve their complete subjugation to Islam, or their deaths.

 

 

The State Department acknowledged for the first time during the Clinton Administration that Christians ? from China, to the Sudan, to the Middle East ? have become the most persecuted faith group in the world. Yet those persecutors are not pressured into the kind of sensitivity training Muslim groups in America demand at the slightest slight, whether actual, imagined or concocted.

 

 

To accept this Islamic double standard creates a significant threat to the United States

 

 

 

100% correct, right-on-the-dot, true. If anyone disputes this, then they should check their facts.

 

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/thomas1.asp

Unfortunately the Arabs have made this into a religious war to cover up their political desires.

 

Not many people in this world love them and once the world ends their need for Arab oil you will see the Arab world crash.

 

While I do not wish bad on anyone, the Arabs have a very bad future coming to them and they know it. India modernized because they are open to the world, but the Arabs are nothing without oil.

You have to understand that there are people who are trying to modernize the Arab world and this outsider mentality of being critical of Arabs and not the Arabs who do wrong simply undermines the modernization campaign. Listen, you know how people in the south resent it when northerners come down and lecture them about the confederate flag and other traditional practices? Those southerners who wanted to bring change to the south had to do it with persuasion and patience right? But what happens to them when a bunch of northeastern Bostonites come down lecturing people? Any change is totally resisted. So when you sit there and call out Islam as a nation, doesnt the same thing happen? Dont people say anybody who wants to bring change might as well join up with those who call out our religion and culture and want to drastically change it?

 

But if it really hurts people to have to respect others who dont want to respect you as a way of bringing eventual mututal peace, then whatever. What was that golden rule thing? Treat others as you would want to be treated? Too bad nobody really listens to guys like Jesus anymore, only pretend to.

 

btw, nobody should be critical of Amnesty International. It was Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld that were so gladly quoting the reports Amnesty kept publishing documenting Saddam's abuses of his people. Its Amnesty that has criticized the Arab abuses. You know, back when conservatives didnt give a damn. Sorry, but Amnesty is not part of Bush's loyal Republican Guard. Talk about double standard.

Too bad no one in the Islam world has yet to condemn all of the terrorism and break away. Too bad Islam's reformers are in the tiny minority. Too bad Islam preaches hate. Too bad, too bad, too bad.

 

 

Too bad Jesus hasn't been listened to by the Church for much of its existence. Too bad both Islam and Christianity persecuted each other and the Jews. Too bad Chasidic Jews have been persecuting less religious Jews. Too bad. Too bad. Too bad.

 

 

Too bad the Arab world has less modernization religiously. Too bad the Arab world is dominated by extremists. Just too bad. Too bad. Too bad!

Here is a link for Islamic condemnations of terrorists attacks, 9-11 and of anti semetic acts.

 

 

 

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

 

The early links are from Islamic scholars who argue the Koran does not advocate violence at all and is being misinterpreted and does not preach hate.

 

Here are just a few of the links that deal with condemnations of attacks on Jews.

 

 

http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2...article25.shtml

 

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20021108-042429-5699r

 

http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A760_0_2_0_M

 

http://www.caircan.ca/itn_more.php?id=A82_0_2_0_M

 

 

 

The Arab world is not dominated by extremists. Just like the US, the extremists scream the loudest. But the average Arab probably has never met a Jew.

 

Sadly, Jews have taken the brunt of hate for a very very long time. And the Arab world is developing as we speak. Anytime an area develops, this sort of stuff rises. Progress will likely destroy these terrible underpinnings. Lets not forget it was only a few generations ago in this country that a black person couldnt swim in the same pool as a white person.

 

The article above even has one line that seems so hidden:

 

The 89-page report titled, "Saudi publications on hate ideology fill American mosques," concludes that propaganda collected from U.S. mosques shows a "totalitarian ideology of hatred that can incite to violence." The report also says such mosques are in the minority, but how many are needed to train terrorists who might attack the U.S. with biological, chemical or nuclear weapons?

But the average Arab probably has never met a Jew.

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That makes it just as bad though. It's no secret that Jew-hating is "taught" or "preached" in Arab countries, so when an Arab has never met a Jew, they just take what they hear and apply it to their own set of principles.

 

It's like the reason college is so liberalizing - because you meet more people from different backgrounds and with different circumstances and your ideals change. Personally, I used to be one of those gay marriage amendment proponents. I recently realized that over the past few months I've done a 180 and, though I am a Republican, I advocate gay marriage rights, among other things - I then realized this began, almost subconsciously, shortly after a friend of mine told me he was gay.

 

When my mother was in high school she met someone and a week later the person found out she was Jewish and said "You don't look Jewish, where are your horns?" She didn't mean it in a nasty way, per se, but she'd been told (can you believe that kind of ignorance at this point in time?) that Jewish people had horns, and she'd never met a Jewish person before, so therefore she applied what she had learned to her real life experiences.

 

If more Arabs met more Jews, they'd probably see that we don't have horns or kill Arab children and put their blood in our matzah. But if they're told that these things happen, and never meet a Jewish person to dispell what they've been mistaught, they'll take those teachings with them throughout their life and accept them as reality.

Totally agree morkotsay. Thats why groups that try and improve Islamic-Jewish relations are really vital. I think there are a lot of Arabs that realize that growth comes with economic and domestic cooperation and not war. Sadly, like every country in the world, there are political leaders who thrive in an environment of hate.

The problem with issue ssuch as these stem so far back it is unimagineable to believe that a few 'activists' can change it anytime soon. The problem is that for the most stringent followers of any religion, accepting the legitamacy of another religion is bascially admitting your religion is wrong. Beinfest4pres, i'm sure you've reads the book by (I forget his first name) Goldhagen, called "Hitlers Willing Executioners". Dr. Goldhagen claims and proves quite thoroughly that the main cause of anti-semitism in Europe has to do with the Christianity that was practiced. The existence of Jews was contradictory to the teachings of Christ, the paranoia was rooted around the fact that if Jews were right (which they weren't according to these people) but the possibility that they are means that Christians are wrong, so by eliminating the 'rebelling' ideology Christianity would be the ultimate truth. 50 years later and nothing has changed, except this time its the Islamic radicals who rule most countries in the middle east and some in Africa.

 

Aside from that there is little protection of Jews worldwide and widespread anti-semitism even among the more 'tolerant' groups. Why? A big reason is because the Jewish stereotype is that of rich professionals, and of course the rich are evil. Also Israel is often portrayed in the media as a big oprressive nation who picks on the helpless palestinians, so its no wonder that the general trend among progressive circles is to side with the Islamic people rather than the Jewish people.

 

Furthermore in the U.S as F_M says its the extremist voice that is loudest. Funny really because our economic progress has been decidely leftist for many years save the reagan years. Whenever the TV goes on the only extremists I hear screaming are the radical left. Perception is a big problem isnt it.

 

Finally, i do agree that tolerance is important and that we must understand that not all people who pratice the islamic faith are radicals or terrorists. We must also be critical of the growing anti-semitism and anti-christianism in Europe and the middle east

The problem with issue ssuch as these stem so far back it is unimagineable to believe that a few 'activists' can change it anytime soon. The problem is that for the most stringent followers of any religion, accepting the legitamacy of another religion is bascially admitting your religion is wrong. Beinfest4pres, i'm sure you've reads the book by (I forget his first name) Goldhagen, called "Hitlers Willing Executioners". Dr. Goldhagen claims and proves quite thoroughly that the main cause of anti-semitism in Europe has to do with the Christianity that was practiced. The existence of Jews was contradictory to the teachings of Christ, the paranoia was rooted around the fact that if Jews were right (which they weren't according to these people) but the possibility that they are means that Christians are wrong, so by eliminating the 'rebelling' ideology Christianity would be the ultimate truth. 50 years later and nothing has changed, except this time its the Islamic radicals who rule most countries in the middle east and some in Africa.

 

Aside from that there is little protection of Jews worldwide and widespread anti-semitism even among the more 'tolerant' groups. Why? A big reason is because the Jewish stereotype is that of rich professionals, and of course the rich are evil. Also Israel is often portrayed in the media as a big oprressive nation who picks on the helpless palestinians, so its no wonder that the general trend among progressive circles is to side with the Islamic people rather than the Jewish people.

 

Furthermore in the U.S as F_M says its the extremist voice that is loudest. Funny really because our economic progress has been decidely leftist for many years save the reagan years. Whenever the TV goes on the only extremists I hear screaming are the radical left. Perception is a big problem isnt it.

 

Finally, i do agree that tolerance is important and that we must understand that not all people who pratice the islamic faith are radicals or terrorists. We must also be critical of the growing anti-semitism and anti-christianism in Europe and the middle east

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Very nice post Legacy. Now I am going to respond to each paragraph.

 

 

First: No, I have never read those books but have heard of them. I might check them out in the future but for right now, I am not in the mood to read up on the subject. And trust me, I am well aware of where the anti-semitism in Europe stems back from. This paragraph is quite true and very factual.

 

 

Second: Thank you Legacy. Case in point that helps is the fact that the "progressive" Ivy League colleges have been pulling out all interests in Israel much like during the South African Apartheid era. And I got one media outlet for you that best exemplifies all the values that Israeli's are mean, terrorist oppressors and the Palestinians are the victims that are defenseless: CNN.

 

 

Third paragraph: This is where your issues begin. I sure as hell here the extreme christian right scream and yell. I also hear the radical left scream and yell. I have yet to see one muslim group actually break away and reform themselves away from the teachings that promote hatred. Yassar Arafat sure as hell condemned many Palestinian Attacks on Israel. But did he do anything about it? No. And don't say its because his resources were low, because he was in charge of the fatah brigade, a terrrorist organization.

 

 

Fourth: No problems here. I wholeheartedly agree.

Excellent followup, and you added a good point, to condemn a terrorist attack verbally is one thing to act upon that condemnation is different. I have yet to see an influential muslim figure do the latter

Case in point that helps is the fact that the "progressive" Ivy League colleges have been pulling out all interests in Israel much like during the South African Apartheid era.

 

 

 

Bienfest, such a statement is overly broad. I took a class at Northwestern called Israel in the modern world and it was taught by a professor from Israel who very much took a pro Israeli stance. Im not trying to defend those who undermine academic integrity in this country by engaging in propaganda, but Im absolulty going to tell you you are wrong if you want to suggest higher level colleges are anti Jewish. I took another class at NU called History of the Holocaust taught by an amazing professor who brought many in the class to tears. One of the best professors at NU is a man named Oscar Weil. He is beloved at NU. He is a jew who went back to Russia after WW2 and faced a lot of obstacles. This is part of his class. A lot of academics at a lot of institutions are the same way.

 

 

I have yet to see one muslim group actually break away and reform themselves away from the teachings that promote hatred.

 

What teachings? Are you saying all musliim groups follow the teachings of radicals? Because you know thats not true. So dont those groups that refuse to follow such extreme views break away by default?

Legacy, I agree with everything else you said except a couple of things:

 

 

 

Furthermore in the U.S as F_M says its the extremist voice that is loudest. Funny really because our economic progress has been decidely leftist for many years save the reagan years. Whenever the TV goes on the only extremists I hear screaming are the radical left. Perception is a big problem isnt it.

 

 

How has how economic progress been leftist for many years? Has the federal welfare program not been all but dismantled? Have we not undertaken a decidedly free market globalization approach? Was NAFTA not passed? Have unions not lost strength?

 

And Beinfest is right. The biggest issues we deal with everyday are the one's the fundamentalist Christians want us to deal with yet few people consider themselves part of that group.

 

 

...rich professionals, and of course the rich are evil.

 

Are you seriously trying to hint that economic liberals are responsible for the anti Jewish views? Take a look around my friend. Insteresting how so many jewish people are economic liberals. Also interesting how Jews were viewed by wealthy people, particularly in the south, when they were excluded from their country clubs and such.

 

act upon that condemnation is different. I have yet to see an influential muslim figure do the latter

 

What about the actions of Musharaff? And the Islamic scholars who issue a fatwa against terrorists? I know numerous Arab American groups who are trying to keep hte community vigilant against people who are doing questionable activities.

The comment about the rich is not about economic liberals but about a general cultural belief.

 

As for the general eocnomic trend, my problem is that i hate using labels. For example, bushs military spending, is that an economically liberal thing to do, or eocnomically conservative. Most will say conservative, but it definetely isnt. Conservatives dont like excessive spending, but it sure isnt liberal b/c liberals rather spend on other projects. So I made a semantic error, what I meant to say is that there has been a general trend for increased spending. True that one must be weary of excesses in social ocnservativism, b/c it gives the govt too much power.

Case in point that helps is the fact that the "progressive" Ivy League colleges have been pulling out all interests in Israel much like during the South African Apartheid era.

 

 

 

Bienfest, such a statement is overly broad. I took a class at Northwestern called Israel in the modern world and it was taught by a professor from Israel who very much took a pro Israeli stance. Im not trying to defend those who undermine academic integrity in this country by engaging in propaganda, but Im absolulty going to tell you you are wrong if you want to suggest higher level colleges are anti Jewish. I took another class at NU called History of the Holocaust taught by an amazing professor who brought many in the class to tears. One of the best professors at NU is a man named Oscar Weil. He is beloved at NU. He is a jew who went back to Russia after WW2 and faced a lot of obstacles. This is part of his class. A lot of academics at a lot of institutions are the same way.

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First of all, not to be sarcastic or curt but I didn't realize that Northwestern is an Ivy League school. I thought Brown, Cornell, Harvard, Yale, Dartmouth, Princeton, Penn, and Columbia were the only Ivy League schools.

 

Second of all, I don't think you understood my statement. What I meant by interests was economic interests. And yes, there are higher level colleges that are inherently anti-Jewish like Columbia.

 

I don't doubt your statement at all, in fact I am overjoyed that especially a school in the midwest has a great Holocaust teacher and Israel teacher. I say that because except for Chicago, most of the midwest is a vast minority of Jews.

But there is nothing inherent in an ivy leage school that makes it anti Jewish. Its the general concern with academia that I was addressing. Plus a lot of those school have a lot more Jewish roots than NU.

Legacy, I find it hard to believe that you haven't heard someone on the radical right screaming about something or other.

 

I hear both the extreme left and extreme right shouting all of the time. However, because the extreme right runs two of the three branches of government right now, they are the ones who get the most attention overall (with the exception of Michael Moore).

I don't believe any university is particularly anti-semitic, it's more or less the specific professors who cause these sentiments and not necessarily the schools or administration themselves. Every university has whacko extremist professors all the way from local junior colleges to Harvard who make it their sole purpose in life to spread their crazy ideals and I don't think you can single them all out as being either liberal or conservative, there's nutjobs on both sides.

 

I remember reading that 33% of all Harvard students are Jewish, that is a massive figure when you compare it to some of the big state schools where you'll find only between 1 and 5% of the student body are Jewish, so to say that the ivy league is for the most part inherently anti-semitic is just not true.

 

It's a shame that Columbia has been given a bad name over one bad professor who acts more like an anti-semitic preacher than an ivy league professor. If I recall correctly, the Columbia administrations view on the situation was that they encourage their students in cases of study that can at times be a little sensitive to take various classes relating to the same subject to get it from all points of view, but then again professors should be teaching in an unbiased manner and not preaching.

I don't believe any university is particularly anti-semitic, it's more or less the specific professors who cause these sentiments and not necessarily the schools or administration themselves. Every university has whacko extremist professors all the way from local junior colleges to Harvard who make it their sole purpose in life to spread their crazy ideals and I don't think you can single them all out as being either liberal or conservative, there's nutjobs on both sides.

 

I remember reading that 33% of all Harvard students are Jewish, that is a massive figure when you compare it to some of the big state schools where you'll find only between 1 and 5% of the student body are Jewish, so to say that the ivy league is for the most part inherently anti-semitic is just not true.

 

It's a shame that Columbia has been given a bad name over one bad professor who acts more like an anti-semitic preacher than an ivy league professor. If I recall correctly, the Columbia administrations view on the situation was that they encourage their students in cases of study that can at times be a little sensitive to take various classes relating to the same subject to get it from all points of view, but then again professors should be teaching in an unbiased manner and not preaching.

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One bad professor? I think you need to check your facts Accord. And you are still missing my point. Ivy League's are pulling out economic not EDUCATIONAL interests in Israel. Just like during the South African Apartheid. Accord, you are taking my comment a little too broadly especially after I have said economic interests at least once before.

There is no denying the double standard. As the free world moves towards being more tolerant in general, towards hispanics, blacks etc. It seems that the anti-semitism has increased or at least stayed constant over the years. Especially in europe. Its not a liberal or conservative issue, its an issue that affects jews aND nonjews.