June 29, 200521 yr Many of you seem sure this is Robinson's fault.? Many of you are also eager to say openly what Jack does wrong (line-up wise, situation wise, etc.), or second guess roster moves by the brass and tell what you would do different. So let me ask you this, what would you do different than Bill Robinson? 830386[/snapback] No one has anything insightful to propose?
June 29, 200521 yr Many of you seem sure this is Robinson's fault.? Many of you are also eager to say openly what Jack does wrong (line-up wise, situation wise, etc.), or second guess roster moves by the brass and tell what you would do different. So let me ask you this, what would you do different than Bill Robinson? 830386[/snapback] No one has anything insightful to propose? 830409[/snapback] I don't know what a hitting coach does in the first place, but whatever Bill is doing to help the hitters, it isn't working.
June 29, 200521 yr Many of you seem sure this is Robinson's fault.? Many of you are also eager to say openly what Jack does wrong (line-up wise, situation wise, etc.), or second guess roster moves by the brass and tell what you would do different. So let me ask you this, what would you do different than Bill Robinson? 830386[/snapback] No one has anything insightful to propose? 830409[/snapback] I don't know what a hitting coach does in the first place, but whatever Bill is doing to help the hitters, it isn't working. 830415[/snapback] 3rd in the NL in average, 4th in RISP average, 1st in average after the 7th inning, 3rd in overall OBP. Struggling across the board, not working at all. :plain Yes we are towards the bottom scoring runs, but we have the 4th fewest homers in the league. We have no power and that is what is killing us. We get on base and you can only play station to station so much. We don't run like we used to. And we don't hit for power like we have in past years that is what is killing us. And like I have said before, Bill isn't the one causing this team play station to station and he isn't the one who can teach players power. We need a power bat not fire the hitting coach.
June 29, 200521 yr maybe sitting Lowell for a week, moving cabs to 3rd and let Willy play in LF may yield better results
June 29, 200521 yr Many of you seem sure this is Robinson's fault.? Many of you are also eager to say openly what Jack does wrong (line-up wise, situation wise, etc.), or second guess roster moves by the brass and tell what you would do different. So let me ask you this, what would you do different than Bill Robinson? 830386[/snapback] No one has anything insightful to propose? 830409[/snapback] I don't know what a hitting coach does in the first place, but whatever Bill is doing to help the hitters, it isn't working. 830415[/snapback] 3rd in the NL in average, 4th in RISP average, 1st in average after the 7th inning, 3rd in overall OBP. Struggling across the board, not working at all. :plain Yes we are towards the bottom scoring runs, but we have the 4th fewest homers in the league. We have no power and that is what is killing us. We get on base and you can only play station to station so much. We don't run like we used to. And we don't hit for power like we have in past years that is what is killing us. And like I have said before, Bill isn't the one causing this team play station to station and he isn't the one who can teach players power. We need a power bat not fire the hitting coach. 830422[/snapback] Don't forget we are dead last in MLB hitting close and late.
June 29, 200521 yr 3rd in the NL in average, 4th in RISP average, 1st in average after the 7th inning, 3rd in overall OBP. Struggling across the board, not working at all. :plain Yes we are towards the bottom scoring runs, but we have the 4th fewest homers in the league. We have no power and that is what is killing us. We get on base and you can only play station to station so much. We don't run like we used to. And we don't hit for power like we have in past years that is what is killing us. And like I have said before, Bill isn't the one causing this team play station to station and he isn't the one who can teach players power. We need a power bat not fire the hitting coach. 830422[/snapback] Among the best with hitting with 2 outs, among the worst with 0 out and leading off innings.
June 29, 200521 yr Many of you seem sure this is Robinson's fault.? Many of you are also eager to say openly what Jack does wrong (line-up wise, situation wise, etc.), or second guess roster moves by the brass and tell what you would do different. So let me ask you this, what would you do different than Bill Robinson? 830386[/snapback] No one has anything insightful to propose? 830409[/snapback] I don't know what a hitting coach does in the first place, but whatever Bill is doing to help the hitters, it isn't working. 830415[/snapback] 3rd in the NL in average, 4th in RISP average, 1st in average after the 7th inning, 3rd in overall OBP. Struggling across the board, not working at all. :plain Yes we are towards the bottom scoring runs, but we have the 4th fewest homers in the league. We have no power and that is what is killing us. We get on base and you can only play station to station so much. We don't run like we used to. And we don't hit for power like we have in past years that is what is killing us. And like I have said before, Bill isn't the one causing this team play station to station and he isn't the one who can teach players power. We need a power bat not fire the hitting coach. 830422[/snapback] Don't forget we are dead last in MLB hitting close and late. 830453[/snapback] We also have had the 3rd fewest chances with that situation. The pitching staff is bad compared to other teams ERA wise close and late, are you ready to fire Riley too?
June 29, 200521 yr Our offense doesn't seem to want to do anything. It seems they are sitting back and waiting for homers, yet they aren't hitting them. They can't play Earl Weaver baseball when you only have two homer hitters on the team. Like was alluded to earlier, the station to station junk isn't working. Let's run and take chances. We have absolutely nothing to lose right now by changing strategies, even it fails we'd be on the same horrible path we're on now.
June 29, 200521 yr Many of you seem sure this is Robinson's fault.? Many of you are also eager to say openly what Jack does wrong (line-up wise, situation wise, etc.), or second guess roster moves by the brass and tell what you would do different. So let me ask you this, what would you do different than Bill Robinson? 830386[/snapback] No one has anything insightful to propose? 830409[/snapback] I don't know what a hitting coach does in the first place, but whatever Bill is doing to help the hitters, it isn't working. 830415[/snapback] 3rd in the NL in average, 4th in RISP average, 1st in average after the 7th inning, 3rd in overall OBP. Struggling across the board, not working at all. :plain Yes we are towards the bottom scoring runs, but we have the 4th fewest homers in the league. We have no power and that is what is killing us. We get on base and you can only play station to station so much. We don't run like we used to. And we don't hit for power like we have in past years that is what is killing us. And like I have said before, Bill isn't the one causing this team play station to station and he isn't the one who can teach players power. We need a power bat not fire the hitting coach. 830422[/snapback] Don't forget we are dead last in MLB hitting close and late. 830453[/snapback] We also have had the 3rd fewest chances with that situation. The pitching staff is bad compared to other teams ERA wise close and late, are you ready to fire Riley too? 830460[/snapback] Here's the point for what feels like the 50th time: it is Robinson's f***ing job. He is responsible for the offense. When they underperform all season it is his responsibility. Even he has acknowledged this in interviews. We may not hit a lot of homers, but we're hitting a lot of doubles and triples with RISP. The average stats are misleading. We get a ton of hits and runs in one inning then go several games without scoring more than a run or two. So on balance all the numbers look good, but because there is not an even distribution our run totals and record are subpar. Robinsons's job is to prepare these guys and put them in a place they can be successful. You don't need to have specific suggestions for every player to know that Robinson isn't getting the job done. If he's doing his best and the players have just tuned him out, that's all the more reason to can him. If you don't think a hitting coach makes a difference, go check out what the Indians have been doing since they fired Murray.
June 29, 200521 yr Many of you seem sure this is Robinson's fault.? Many of you are also eager to say openly what Jack does wrong (line-up wise, situation wise, etc.), or second guess roster moves by the brass and tell what you would do different. So let me ask you this, what would you do different than Bill Robinson? 830386[/snapback] No one has anything insightful to propose? 830409[/snapback] I don't know what a hitting coach does in the first place, but whatever Bill is doing to help the hitters, it isn't working. 830415[/snapback] 3rd in the NL in average, 4th in RISP average, 1st in average after the 7th inning, 3rd in overall OBP. Struggling across the board, not working at all. :plain Yes we are towards the bottom scoring runs, but we have the 4th fewest homers in the league. We have no power and that is what is killing us. We get on base and you can only play station to station so much. We don't run like we used to. And we don't hit for power like we have in past years that is what is killing us. And like I have said before, Bill isn't the one causing this team play station to station and he isn't the one who can teach players power. We need a power bat not fire the hitting coach. 830422[/snapback] Don't forget we are dead last in MLB hitting close and late. 830453[/snapback] We also have had the 3rd fewest chances with that situation. The pitching staff is bad compared to other teams ERA wise close and late, are you ready to fire Riley too? 830460[/snapback] Here's the point for what feels like the 50th time: it is Robinson's f***ing job. He is responsible for the offense. When they underperform all season it is his responsibility. Even he has acknowledged this in interviews. We may not hit a lot of homers, but we're hitting a lot of doubles and triples with RISP. The average stats are misleading. We get a ton of hits and runs in one inning then go several games without scoring more than a run or two. So on balance all the numbers look good, but because there is not an even distribution our run totals and record are subpar. Robinsons's job is to prepare these guys and put them in a place they can be successful. You don't need to have specific suggestions for every player to know that Robinson isn't getting the job done. If he's doing his best and the players have just tuned him out, that's all the more reason to can him. If you don't think a hitting coach makes a difference, go check out what the Indians have been doing since they fired Murray. 830523[/snapback] This even distribution thing always gets me. So would you say our pitching has been consistent? If not, why are you not all over Wiley? This is what I don't understand from you people. You say averages are worthless if you don't live up to the averages on a nightly basis. 21 times the pitching staff has allowed 5 runs or more. That is around 1/3 of our games that the pitching staff has let up enough runs that you shouldn't expect your offense to cover, no matter who you are. If you go out and let up 5 runs its hard to ask your offense to have to score atleast 6, no matter who you are. And the pitching staff has asked the offense to do that in about 1/3 of our games. This team is based on pitching, supposedly, so we are suppose to win the 3-2 type of games. Even the 1-0 games when we hand them over to the bullpen in the 8th or 9th innning. And like I said before you want to judge Robinson, tell me what you would do different. Heck, tell me what he does already that is bad. Who's to say without him they wouldn't be worse? You could have Einstein teach a bunch of kidengartners in calculus and most of them would still fail, so would you fire him? 1/4 of the roster Robinson is given (Enc and Gonzo) are some of the worst hitters in the league. He has Cabrera and Delgado doing above their heads. And unless you want to blame him with Lowell, the other things are like they should except Pierre. Louie is doing what is expected of him, maybe better OBP wise. And Lo Duca is doing what you should expect from him. What would you do different?
June 29, 200521 yr Our starting pitching has been fairly consistent. Our bullpen has been cover your eyes awful except for Todd Jones. You're ignoring the fact that in 2/3 of our games according to your own standard we are pitching well enough to win. Considering we're not winning anywhere near that often, the offense can only be seen as underperforming. Enc is not one of the worst hitters in the league. He's average, and he's playing as expected. Cabrera is a star on the rise. He's not playing over his head. He's on a normal career path given his obvious talent. Delgado is not playing over his head either. He's had better years with the Blue Jays. Pierre stinks, but it can be argued he's just having an off year where the ball isn't bouncing his way. Lowell is horrendous. He was counted on to be a major run producer for us, and he's killing the team. Averages do not tell the whole story. People keep citing these averages to defend Robinson and ignore the stat that really counts: runs. And we're not scoring them. You completely miss the point again about Robinson. If the offense isn't scoring, it's his responsibility. If my car won't start, I don't have to know what's wrong or how to fix it to know it isn't working. If I take my car to a mechanic, and he says there's nothing wrong and no one could do a better job with it than what he's done, but my car still doesn't run, I'm going to find another mechanic.
June 29, 200521 yr Our starting pitching has been fairly consistent.? Our bullpen has been cover your eyes awful except for Todd Jones.? You're ignoring the fact that in 2/3 of our games according to your own standard we are pitching well enough to win.? Considering we're not winning anywhere near that often, the offense can only be seen as underperforming. If we agree the pitching has cost us 1/3 of our games then it would be fair to the offense to say they would be doing a similar job if they cost us 1/3 of our games. But alas we have not lost 2/3 of our games. We haven't even lost 1/2 of our games. So you could say pitching has cost us more games then our hitting, in a fair world. Enc is not one of the worst hitters in the league.? He's average, and he's playing as expected.? Cabrera is a star on the rise.? He's not playing over his head.? He's on a normal career path given his obvious talent.? Delgado is not playing over his head either.? He's had better years with the Blue Jays.? Pierre stinks, but it can be argued he's just having an off year where the ball isn't bouncing his way.? Lowell is horrendous.? He was counted on to be a major run producer for us, and he's killing the team. Enc was the 10th worst hitter in the league last year and Alex was dead last, out of usual starters. Carlos is hitting better and reaching base better than his career numbers even though he is older, past his prime AND switched leagues. Most of these pitchers he sees he has minimal, if any, experience against. Of course he has some history with a few, Hudson, Pedro, etc. but really this is new to him. And Cabrera is getting better and that is all you can ask of him. If he was treading water then it would be time to worry but as long as he goes up and up then there are no worries. Do you blame Lowell or Robinson for Lowell killing us? Lowell is on pace to hit 50 RBIs and less than 10 HRs. Coming into the year we all knew if the team was going to succeed the team was going to be carried by Lowell, Cabrera and Delgado and right now Lowell is abysmal. So do you blame Robinson for this? Averages do not tell the whole story.? People keep citing these averages to defend Robinson and ignore the stat that really counts: runs.? And we're not scoring them.? You completely miss the point again about Robinson.? If the offense isn't scoring, it's his responsibility.? If my car won't start, I don't have to know what's wrong or how to fix it to know it isn't working.? If I take my car to a mechanic, and he says there's nothing wrong and no one could do a better job with it than what he's done, but my car still doesn't run, I'm going to find another mechanic. 830567[/snapback] No they aren't scoring runs, but is it his fault or the players' fault? Robinson has has success through his hitting coach career. It would be hard for me to believe he forgot how to coach. This is a Marlin's board so I can understand that people don't want to believe that the players just aren't that good, but that might be the truth, the talent isn't there and what we need is new talent, in particular power.
June 29, 200521 yr I completely agree we need another power bat. I don't think it is all Robinson's fault either. Clearly the players are not performing when it matters because we aren't scoring runs. However, it is Robinson's responsibility, fair or not, and even he acknowledges this. Sometimes just a change of a coach can make a difference. As a comparison, last year Cleveland was hitting like crazy, this year they weren't. Did Eddie Murray forget how to coach? No, but clearly his firing had some impact this year because after ranking 29th in runs in April and 22nd in May, they are 3rd in runs scored in June for all MLB teams. From a practical standpoint, it's a whole lot easier and cheaper to change hitting coaches than players.
June 29, 200521 yr Eddie was a batting coach for a whole 3 years, and then whatever this year. And its not like he ever took the Indians anywhere. The Indians offense was nothing to brag about until last year and currently right now. Then again you could attribute some of that to the fact a lot of their young players are just plain getting better. Bill Robinson has pedigree because he has been around for a number of years and have taken a couple of teams all the way. BTW, how come you aren't bragging about the Blue Jays and their change of hitting coach?
June 29, 200521 yr The Blue Jays deal was ridiculous. They lost Delgado to us and then wondered why they started off with less offense. They have been a mediocre team for years, and they shouldn't have been surprised. Murray was working with a young team that clearly had regressed this season. Coincidence maybe, but they sure took off after he left. Robinson had some fantastic players in NY, many who had success before playing for him. But there were some of the same criticisms of him there, too. And that team certainly should have won more than one title (and yes I know cocaine, injuries, and age played a part in that, too). The Marlins though are a veteran team who have produced before. I haven't seen anyone suggest they aren't that good. Everything I see and hear suggests the writers and sportscasters are every bit as baffled as we are as to why we don't score runs. I'm not encouraged by these trade rumors either. None of them mention a power bat. Bottom line, it's easier to change coaches than players.
June 29, 200521 yr Some stats that I was looking at, and thought I'd share with the group: For the last 30 days the Marlins offense is: - 10th in NL, 21st in ML - AVG - .265 - 8th in NL, 15th in ML - OBP - .331 - 13th in NL, 26th in ML - SLG - .394 So for the last 30 days we've hardly been competetive offensively. Leading off an Inning the Marlins Offense is (entire season): - 10th in NL, 20th in ML - AVG - .256 - 14th in NL, 24th in ML - OBP - .305 - 16th in NL, 30th in ML - SLG - .359 With No Outs the Marlins Offense is (entire season): - 12th in NL, 21st in ML - AVG - .266 - 14th in NL, 26th in ML - OBP - .307 - 16th in NL, 30th in ML - SLG - .382 What does this mean? This means that we're getting our leadoff man on at a very deficient rate compared to the rest of the league. Why is that bad? Because when the leadoff man is on, it gives the team the most opportunities to get him home and score a run since all three outs are available. Why are runs important? Because we need them to win. In Runs Scored the Marlins Offense is - 12th in NL, 25th in ML - 323 runs In the last 30 days: - 12th in NL, 25th in ML - 108 runs
June 29, 200521 yr And to think the Natties are worse than the Marlins in basically every single major offensive category. I wonder if they are demanding a new hitting coach. :plain
June 29, 200521 yr Our offense doesn't seem to want to do anything. It seems they are sitting back and waiting for homers, yet they aren't hitting them. They can't play Earl Weaver baseball when you only have two homer hitters on the team. Like was alluded to earlier, the station to station junk isn't working. Let's run and take chances. We have absolutely nothing to lose right now by changing strategies, even it fails we'd be on the same horrible path we're on now. 830514[/snapback] There was a recent study on BaseballProspectus that pretty much smashed the myth that smallball teams are more consistent in scoring runs. Although that has not been true for the White Sox whose success in reversing their past inconsistency spured the article. However, I agree. This team is rarely stretching for the extra base. Jack has not been calling for the hit & run (and did not for much of 2004). Cox is generally cautious and crawls into a little ball the second a baserunner is thrown out. Putting some runners in motion and being a little more proactive would help this team. At the very least it would change the complacent tone that has spread.
June 29, 200521 yr And to think the Natties are worse than the Marlins in basically every single major offensive category. I wonder if they are demanding a new hitting coach. :plain 830614[/snapback] The Nationals are an enigma which can only be explained by having an excellent versatile bullpen that can not be matched by anyone or acquired via trade without very costly franchise impacting losses.
June 29, 200521 yr And to think the Natties are worse than the Marlins in basically every single major offensive category.? I wonder if they are demanding a new hitting coach. :plain 830614[/snapback] The Nationals are an enigma which can only be explained by having an excellent versatile bullpen that can not be matched by anyone or acquired via trade without very costly franchise impacting losses. 830617[/snapback] And to think Bowden is their GM. :mischief I know how you and others love him.
June 29, 200521 yr Well he really had nothing to do with it. Despite trying to add a veteran closer/setup man to compete with the outstanding Cordero - Ayala - Majewski trio, all he ended up with just a LOOGY whose been injured all year.
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