I see you've thought this over. Have you suggested it to any of your elected officials in Palm Beach County? What did they say?

 

 

lolololololol Rferry :thumbup

If I hear one more person blame the fans, I'm going to scream. Does it make sense to anyone else why a team that has such apathy and ill-will around it would degrade its fans and its stadium at every chance it got? Would you readily give money to someone who told you that you were the root of everything that went wrong over the past two years, and would you pay to sit in a ballpark that its own tenant calls substandard?

 

Firstly, Loria knew damn well what he was getting himself into, don't write checks you can't afford. The fans didn't hand out the $52 million to Delgado, Loria did, same with the Lowell and LoDuca and Castillo deals which the franchise apparently can't afford. Did the low attendance hurt? Sure, but at the same time, it isn't as if the apathetic fan-base came out of nowhere...it's irresponsible to assume that overnight the bridges that were burned by the first firesale, threats of contraction and the stigma of being a Marlins fan would be corrected instantly by one free agent signing.

 

When's the last time you ever heard a business where the venue and the consumer were to blame for a business poorly run by individuals with no ability to look a mere year into the future and realize they'll be on the hook for more money than they can realistically afford because of contracts they negotiated? Sure sounds like the fans' fault that basic addition is something seriously lacking from Beinfest's "creative" ability.

 

Every time I complain about the front office (love the team, hate the organization) I'm always told "what, two world series titles isn't good enough for you?" Yeah, sure, but two firesales is too much for me, or for any other fan, to have to put up with.

 

 

This is classic ignorant rabble. Okay, so now you complain that Loria knew what he was getting into when he got the team and that his signing of those deals was the problem. But if we were to go back in time to 2002 and if Loria would have kept the team's payroll at $30M in 2002, 2003, 2004, and 2005 you'd be complaining that this team will never compete and nobody comes to the games because the team isn't putting an effort to win. So what is it with you?

 

I'm sorry, but NUMBERS DO NOT LIE. It is a quid pro quo a business owner puts forth a product with the expectation that the consumer will come for the product. The product was shown to be successful (winning seasons in 2003, 2004, 2005), but the consumer decided for his own reasons not to come, not to respond. Well, what choice does the business owner have then? Keep throwing money away to a consumer that just doesn't care, or cut back and operate the business to reflect the market, which in this area means fans that will find any excuse on earth not to go to the game.

 

I'm sorry, but 1997 was eight years ago! In the interim there have been two other owners, a world championship, and three winning seasons. If you're going to use the excuse that the fire sale killed off the fan base, then this fan base is pathetic, because there have been fire sales in San Diego (remember Sheffield, McGriff, etc.), Anaheim, Cleveland, and Seattle. However, those markets got new stadiums and attendance increases.

 

Face the facts, this market is not a baseball market because people use up all their energy in finding excuses to not go. PERIOD.

 

As for the other assertions on this board, Broward will NOT fund another public stadium/arena because of the boondoggle that the [iNSERT THIS WEEK'S ARENA NAME HERE] Center has become. I was there, in person, when Broward Commissioners Lieberman and former commissioner Parrish (now the Property Appraiser) explained this to the Plantation City Council. Palm Beach County is not as rich as you think it is (I'm a resident of here!). CityPlace is still being debated whether it was a success or not. The City/County has not put a red cent on any opera house (trust me, that issue is being litigated because I was the one that prepared the Complaint in Circuit Court!), and the County is so knee deep in Scripps problems right now that there is NO WAY they can invest another $300+ million on a stadium that will probably be less than 40% full in 2012 because the Marlins may be below .500. Just look at the Panthers situation. The arena was built where the fanbase "allegedly" was. Well, that fan base doesn't attend a game unless the team is in first place.

 

I'm disgusted with this whole thing, trust me. But there is enough blame to go around and while the people here (and there aren't enough of you to make a difference with your money, which is what the team needs) may be passionate fan. The vast majority of people who don't read this site, or post here, just care enough about baseball to save this team. Baseball was an event in 1993, then it tailed off and just resurfaced during the playoff runs in 1997 and 2003. That's it. My guess is this team ends up in Charlotte because that is the only market that baseball has not been able to exploit.

I see you've thought this over. Have you suggested it to any of your elected officials in Palm Beach County? What did they say?

 

 

lolololololol Rferry :thumbup

 

Palm Beach County may have considered contributing toward building a stadium a couple years ago. However, they have already wasted over $100 million on a questionable project to build a Scripps research facility on former farmland in the central part of the county. This was recently held up because of a federal court ruling that the Army Corps of Engineers did a rushed/botched environmental analysis of the project. So, at this point, I don't think PBC would pony up for a stadium.

Orlando is more than possible. For someone.

 

Downtown is BOOMING. Constantly climbing the ladder of Market size.

 

Lockheed Martin is directly or indirectly coming with thousands of jobs.

 

Year round family entertainment. (Spell that go to a ballpark with your kids)

 

Who has the best image for baseball Orlando or Vegas? Try not to think too hard on that one.

Don't be too harsh on TSwift. He's having a hard time coming to terms with what has happened and is fighting off hopelessness with these wild dreams.

I tell you what's left to support: Baltimore Orioles baseball. I'll be going to tons of O's spring training games since there's no sense in saving money for the regular season.

If you didn't see the writing on the wall when you renewed your tickets (in September, because you're such a passionate fan you still hoped the Marlins could make the playoffs), you are blind. The city hasn't been talking to the Marlins in months. The hurricanes were exhausting the state's budget. The county and Marlins could find no one to help. And the club was completing its second season limping towards .500 with scant attendance with high priced stars. The light at the end of the tunnel was dimming. Loria had to do something to avoid being trapped under the pile of rocks of bankruptcy and deceit. Else both he and the Marlins would be stuck. The moves were made to give the club a few years to decide the fate of the club. And while there may be some backlash from it, it won't be any more significant than the impact of re-signing and investing in free agents the past three years have had towards fixing the team's off-field problems. This is where it gets hard. This is where the Marlins need our support. This is make or break time for the local politicians to decide if they want a real baseball team with a real owner who has shown he cares about winning or if they want to keep good "relations" with Huizenga and the some notable industries.

 

Well, I don't think I'm blind but I do believe there will be a lot of angry season ticket holders (and I'm one of them). I did expect to see some players traded and a payroll cut. I did not expect a full dismantling. If Josh Beckett was shocked he was traded why should we have foreseen this crap?

 

The fact that I support this team (and will until the end) doesn't change the fact that whether or not I chose to pay major league prices for a minor league team should have been my decision.

 

 

 

You don't think the club was shocked that they couldn't find a taker for Lowell and Pierre? You don't think they weren't upset when they had to append Beckett onto Lowell's contract? You actually think that was their plan?!? You think they didn't want the stadium deal to be done? You don't think they did everything MLB allowed to get the deal done? You think they wanted all these hurricanes to damage their prosperty and prospects? You think they wanted it to end up like this? No, I can assure you, no rational person would. Thanks to the local officials you and others voted for, all of us are victims. Season ticket holders are victims. Casual fans are victims. Out of town fans are victims. Loria and Samson is a victim.

 

The signs were there. I admit I didn't see them clearly either. But they were there. Most thought there would be a radical resturcturing that at the very least would have seen payroll to drop and the club built around its young core. However there is still hope for this group. And I hope here is there is for them, in the state of Florida.

No, I'm not saying they wanted it to end up like this but I am saying that people have a right to be upset and that there is plenty of blame to go around. Remember that season ticket holders had to pay for their postseason tickets and renew at the same time in order to be able to get those postseason tickets. Why were we pushed to renew early? Given what transpired you have to admit it doesn't look good that they chose to do that this year. The truth is I don't know what they did or didn't know at the time. None of us really do.

 

At some point, I would like to hear/see Mr. Loria. I'm sick and tired of hearing from David Samson and, frankly, I have a little trouble seeing him as a victim.

 

Incidentally, none of us in South Florida voted for Tom Lee. I didn't live within Miami city limits until just recently so I never voted in Miami city elections. Before I lived in South Miami and before that, most of my life in the Gables so I have never voted for Miami officials. I did vote for Carlos Alvarez because he supported the stadium. The gap in funding should have been bridged when it was much smaller. Loria has been a great owner but, as others have said, perhaps he just doesn't have enough money to be an owner.

 

Again, there were signs and certain moves I anticipated but this is extreme. There is plenty of blame to go around and I'm certainly not blaming it all on the Marlins. I also still have hope that they can somehow stay in South Florida.

If you didn't see the writing on the wall when you renewed your tickets (in September, because you're such a passionate fan you still hoped the Marlins could make the playoffs), you are blind. The city hasn't been talking to the Marlins in months. The hurricanes were exhausting the state's budget. The county and Marlins could find no one to help. And the club was completing its second season limping towards .500 with scant attendance with high priced stars. The light at the end of the tunnel was dimming. Loria had to do something to avoid being trapped under the pile of rocks of bankruptcy and deceit. Else both he and the Marlins would be stuck. The moves were made to give the club a few years to decide the fate of the club. And while there may be some backlash from it, it won't be any more significant than the impact of re-signing and investing in free agents the past three years have had towards fixing the team's off-field problems. This is where it gets hard. This is where the Marlins need our support. This is make or break time for the local politicians to decide if they want a real baseball team with a real owner who has shown he cares about winning or if they want to keep good "relations" with Huizenga and the some notable industries.

 

Well, I don't think I'm blind but I do believe there will be a lot of angry season ticket holders (and I'm one of them). I did expect to see some players traded and a payroll cut. I did not expect a full dismantling. If Josh Beckett was shocked he was traded why should we have foreseen this crap?

 

The fact that I support this team (and will until the end) doesn't change the fact that whether or not I chose to pay major league prices for a minor league team should have been my decision.

 

 

 

You don't think the club was shocked that they couldn't find a taker for Lowell and Pierre? You don't think they weren't upset when they had to append Beckett onto Lowell's contract? You actually think that was their plan?!? You think they didn't want the stadium deal to be done? You don't think they did everything MLB allowed to get the deal done? You think they wanted all these hurricanes to damage their prosperty and prospects? You think they wanted it to end up like this? No, I can assure you, no rational person would. Thanks to the local officials you and others voted for, all of us are victims. Season ticket holders are victims. Casual fans are victims. Out of town fans are victims. Loria and Samson is a victim.

 

The signs were there. I admit I didn't see them clearly either. But they were there. Most thought there would be a radical resturcturing that at the very least would have seen payroll to drop and the club built around its young core. However there is still hope for this group. And I hope here is there is for them, in the state of Florida.

No, I'm not saying they wanted it to end up like this but I am saying that people have a right to be upset and that there is plenty of blame to go around. Remember that season ticket holders had to pay for their postseason tickets and renew at the same time in order to be able to get those postseason tickets. Why were we pushed to renew early? Given what transpired you have to admit it doesn't look good that they chose to do that this year. The truth is I don't know what they did or didn't know at the time. None of us really do.

 

At some point, I would like to hear/see Mr. Loria. I'm sick and tired of hearing from David Samson and, frankly, I have a little trouble seeing him as a victim.

 

Incidentally, none of us in South Florida voted for Tom Lee. I didn't live within Miami city limits until just recently so I never voted in Miami city elections. Before I lived in South Miami and before that, most of my life in the Gables so I have never voted for Miami officials. I did vote for Carlos Alvarez because he supported the stadium. The gap in funding should have been bridged when it was much smaller. Loria has been a great owner but, as others have said, perhaps he just doesn't have enough money to be an owner.

 

Again, there were signs and certain moves I anticipated but this is extreme. There is plenty of blame to go around and I'm certainly not blaming it all on the Marlins. I also still have hope that they can somehow stay in South Florida.

 

 

Some of u guys gotta start summerizeing what ya say and get 2 the point keep it simple :thumbup

Orlando is more than possible. For someone.

 

Downtown is BOOMING. Constantly climbing the ladder of Market size.

 

Lockheed Martin is directly or indirectly coming with thousands of jobs.

 

Year round family entertainment. (Spell that go to a ballpark with your kids)

 

Who has the best image for baseball Orlando or Vegas? Try not to think too hard on that one.

 

 

You won't have a team in both St. Pete and Orlando.