Ironic that his Sig advertises his blog saying: "A True Marlins Fan Blog."

Yeah sure is. Isn't a "True Marlins Fan" supposed to stand by his/her team no matter what?? :mischief2

No

 

Then I hate to finally say it, but I hope they do move away. Its become painfully obvious that even the most die hard fans could really give a **** about this team in any situation. And the attitudes of fans and people in the press has become almost sickening to listen to. I guarentee you that New York, Boston and Chicago would stand by their teams if ownership did this.

 

For many years, Cubs fans did exactly that. They were exceeding loyal. They still are. But the point is their loyalty allowed the front office to basically field pathetic teams year after year. There's something to be said for demanding a quality product.

 

Also, my offer still stands. Any Marlins fan who wants to prove his loyalty is welcome to take my tickets off my hands for face value. As an added bonus, you can spit at me on these boards and call me disloyal, a bandwagoner, and whatever else you want. Now that's value.

^

Why not "dispute" like this dude??

Ironic that his Sig advertises his blog saying: "A True Marlins Fan Blog."

Yeah sure is. Isn't a "True Marlins Fan" supposed to stand by his/her team no matter what?? :mischief2

No

 

Then I hate to finally say it, but I hope they do move away. Its become painfully obvious that even the most die hard fans could really give a **** about this team in any situation. And the attitudes of fans and people in the press has become almost sickening to listen to. I guarentee you that New York, Boston and Chicago would stand by their teams if ownership did this.

 

I agree with you a 100%, Your not a fan if you dont stick by your team.. Not I bet you anything they win a World Series in 5 years because of these trades you would HOP back on that WAGON!

 

Sheep mentality's great, isn't it?

 

Independant thought? What's that...

 

I respect him for believing enough in his rights that he fought back.

^

Why not "dispute" like this dude??

 

 

It's a little more difficult than all that. Otherwise, I would. See, we share with these other people. We get 40ish games, they get 40ish games. The tickets were technically bought on their dime, and then we fork over our share to them. But they still want the tickets, so we're kind of committed to them for this year. Wouldn't be fair to back out now.

 

They're good seats, bought at a senior discount, so cheaper than normal. I'm serious. Someone buy them.

Not that its of much of any revelance to your correspondence with American Express, but season ticket holders wouldn't have been blocked from buying playoff tickets if they did not re-up by September. It was an additional service provided by the Marlins, which you agreed to on the belief they would not only make the playoffs but put out a team you consider worth watching the next season. Rather than risk the possibility of not getting playoff tickets (and, then, not in your seat), you opted to ignore the team's place in the standings and its strained negotiations with the city of Miami and guaranteed your seats.

 

Well, actually it wasn't just to guarantee your seat but to guarantee a seat. Getting good playoff seats is not easy and getting any WS tickets at all is extremely tough (you're likely to end up paying a fortune to a broker or someone selling illegally).

 

For the record, you can re-news your season tickets after the deadline... I am a season ticket holder and following the 2003 Playoffs and World Series I didnt re-new my tickets till the next Febuary for 2004 and I still got my same seat and had the same playoffs seats for the 03 Playoffs...

That used to be the case but they did it differently this year.

 

I'm not asking for a refund and my tickets were about $1500. I think it's important to go to games now but that doesn't mean I don't disapprove of what they did. What they did was wrong and if you put aside your hard-earned money and you don't happen to be wealthy, it hurts.

I want to make myself clear on this. First off if you spent all that much money to renew your tickets, then yeah I can understand your beef with this and ask for your money back. Unfortunately I do not have the funds to even attempt to buy season tickets, but I do go to my share of games and can fully understand when someone uses their money for one product and gets a completely different one in return.

 

 

HOWEVER

 

 

I'm not call myself any less of a fan or attend any less games than I have been over the years just because the FO decides that now is when they have to pull of this "Market Correction" bull**** on all of us. And I'm not going to be any less loyal to this team now because now is when this fan needs its true fans more than ever. Maybe I'm just rambing a bunch of bull, but its just become the way that I have felt lately. All these opinions I've seen in the papers and on other sites say how people will stop going to games because of what they have done and all this other non sense about they hope that the team does move away. What I said about hoping that they do move away I said in anger and I hope that everyone that is really upset about all of this are saying it out of anger as well.

You guys need to seperate the ownership from the team. Those who dispute the charges are "real fans," they just are not willing to be played like a fool by the ownership.

 

Isn't it a bit too coincidental that fans were forced to lay a deposit on next years season tickets for playoff priority. Many fans were upset at that time because, up until that time, current year ticket holders automatically had priority. Fans got strong-armed into renewing their season tickets early, then management proceeds to gut the team this offseason. Do the fans that renewed early bear some of the blame for taking that risk? Sure they do, but any respectable business knows that keeping customers happy is the key to staying afloat. You don't blatantly swindle your most loyal customers, then refuse to give a refund. The Marlins stance on this issue is arrogant and definitely does promote goodwill.

 

This organization pulled a fast one on its fans, and those fans have every right to be mad. Maybe they make some money off the suckers that renewed early this year. That's great, but what about next year? Do you think people are gonna come running back to a business that blatantly conned them out of hundreds of dollars? Keep on talking bad about these "bandwagonners" that have had enough. You "die hards" will sit in an empty stadium supporting a team that won't even be around when it becomes any good.

Wanting refunds from your season ticket doesn't mean you dont want to go to some of the games, or even alot of the games. Everyone at a minimum should see all the Dontrelle starts, but the rest of the games are for only the hardcore fans.

 

I don't think many people here would willingly shell out 800 bucks to see a team who's ceiling is a .500 record. Put this team in any another market and you are going to see alot less butts in those stadiums too.

 

The only people who can criticize this guy are people who spent the same money he did. Period.

Put this team in any another market and you are going to see alot less butts in those stadiums too.

 

 

I'm pretty sure if the Marlins moved they'd have more fans...

Exactly. If they give me a refund, I'll definitely go to some games. Maybe not the usual 30 or so, but somewhere between 10-20. If they don't give me a refund, I'll probably go when Dontrelle pitches, and then try to figure out what to do with the rest. I won't buy a single thing at the stadium, though I guess I'm stuck paying for parking. And then in the following years I will skip as many games as I feel I need to to, in order to recoup my money. I have a feeling I won't be watching a Marlins game at Dolphins Stadium, until, say, 2009. Unless the team gets good...I won't have any problems bandwagoning come September or playoff time. In the meantime, I can just watch from the comfort of my own home, when I want to, and just think of all the time and money I'll save that I can apply to other pursuits.

I want to make myself clear on this. First off if you spent all that much money to renew your tickets, then yeah I can understand your beef with this and ask for your money back. Unfortunately I do not have the funds to even attempt to buy season tickets, but I do go to my share of games and can fully understand when someone uses their money for one product and gets a completely different one in return.

 

 

HOWEVER

 

 

I'm not call myself any less of a fan or attend any less games than I have been over the years just because the FO decides that now is when they have to pull of this "Market Correction" bull**** on all of us. And I'm not going to be any less loyal to this team now because now is when this fan needs its true fans more than ever. Maybe I'm just rambing a bunch of bull, but its just become the way that I have felt lately. All these opinions I've seen in the papers and on other sites say how people will stop going to games because of what they have done and all this other non sense about they hope that the team does move away. What I said about hoping that they do move away I said in anger and I hope that everyone that is really upset about all of this are saying it out of anger as well.

 

 

There's a difference between buying advance season tickets and buying single game tickets. TThose that renewed early got duped into thinking that they would be watching the same team they saw last year. They may have eventually purchased season tickets anyway, even after the fire sale, but I can easily see how they would be infuriated by an apparent con-job perpetuated by Loria.

 

I'm still excited about Marlins baseball. I seriously don't mind watching a young team grow together - Hell, I probably enjoyed '98 more than I did this past year. I like seeing how the prospects look when they get to the big leagues, but that is not the point. The point is that the ownership extorted money out of its most loyal fans by having them pay for one thing and then giving them something else. It's not an issue as to whether you're a fan of the Marlins, it's an issue as to whether you will continue to patronize a business that treats you with no respect and even tries to dupe you.

I want to make myself clear on this. First off if you spent all that much money to renew your tickets, then yeah I can understand your beef with this and ask for your money back. Unfortunately I do not have the funds to even attempt to buy season tickets, but I do go to my share of games and can fully understand when someone uses their money for one product and gets a completely different one in return.

 

 

HOWEVER

 

 

I'm not call myself any less of a fan or attend any less games than I have been over the years just because the FO decides that now is when they have to pull of this "Market Correction" bull**** on all of us. And I'm not going to be any less loyal to this team now because now is when this fan needs its true fans more than ever. Maybe I'm just rambing a bunch of bull, but its just become the way that I have felt lately. All these opinions I've seen in the papers and on other sites say how people will stop going to games because of what they have done and all this other non sense about they hope that the team does move away. What I said about hoping that they do move away I said in anger and I hope that everyone that is really upset about all of this are saying it out of anger as well.

 

 

There's a difference between buying advance season tickets and buying single game tickets. TThose that renewed early got duped into thinking that they would be watching the same team they saw last year. They may have eventually purchased season tickets anyway, even after the fire sale, but I can easily see how they would be infuriated by an apparent con-job perpetuated by Loria.

 

I'm still excited about Marlins baseball. I seriously don't mind watching a young team grow together - Hell, I probably enjoyed '98 more than I did this past year. I like seeing how the prospects look when they get to the big leagues, but that is not the point. The point is that the ownership extorted money out of its most loyal fans by having them pay for one thing and then giving them something else. It's not an issue as to whether you're a fan of the Marlins, it's an issue as to whether you will continue to patronize a business that treats you with no respect and even tries to dupe you.

 

Here's a man who understands exactly what the deal is. Well said.

Look, I've got three full seasons in the infield box, they weren't cheap, and under different circumstances I'd want out (given that I can get those seats walk-up on gameday most days), but I know that I'd probably go to no worse than every Willis and Olsen game and two out of every three weekend games, so it makes sense for me to keep the seats.

 

That said, I'm not going to look down on anyone who wants out, a part of me did, then I realized how counterproductive cutting off my nose to spite my face would be, but that's because I knew that I would still be going. An experience like this (the good ol' rope-a-dope) can sour some so much that bridges were burned and one may never come back. FRZ here feels that way, it's his money, and he's entitled to walk if he wants to. If having the stadium empty didn't play right into the sadistic plan that Samson and Loria have for relocation, I'd urge everyone to do the same, however, the Marlins situation is so unique that to ensure the long-term viability of the franchise, you almost have to endorse through ticket sales what Samson and Loria are doing...it's a damn catch-22.

 

Anyone who criticizes a person for realizing he made a bad investment is being ignorant. If an equity you invested in starts bottoming out, you don't hang on for the principle, you get out and do what's best for you. Loria just did it, he cut his losses, a fan should be entitled to the same procedure without ridicule.

 

However, to all season ticket holders who are apathetic, please hold on to the seats, as long as the season ticket numbers are there, relocation is harder to push.

I want to make myself clear on this. First off if you spent all that much money to renew your tickets, then yeah I can understand your beef with this and ask for your money back. Unfortunately I do not have the funds to even attempt to buy season tickets, but I do go to my share of games and can fully understand when someone uses their money for one product and gets a completely different one in return.

 

 

HOWEVER

 

 

I'm not call myself any less of a fan or attend any less games than I have been over the years just because the FO decides that now is when they have to pull of this "Market Correction" bull**** on all of us. And I'm not going to be any less loyal to this team now because now is when this fan needs its true fans more than ever. Maybe I'm just rambing a bunch of bull, but its just become the way that I have felt lately. All these opinions I've seen in the papers and on other sites say how people will stop going to games because of what they have done and all this other non sense about they hope that the team does move away. What I said about hoping that they do move away I said in anger and I hope that everyone that is really upset about all of this are saying it out of anger as well.

 

 

There's a difference between buying advance season tickets and buying single game tickets. TThose that renewed early got duped into thinking that they would be watching the same team they saw last year. They may have eventually purchased season tickets anyway, even after the fire sale, but I can easily see how they would be infuriated by an apparent con-job perpetuated by Loria.

 

I'm still excited about Marlins baseball. I seriously don't mind watching a young team grow together - Hell, I probably enjoyed '98 more than I did this past year. I like seeing how the prospects look when they get to the big leagues, but that is not the point. The point is that the ownership extorted money out of its most loyal fans by having them pay for one thing and then giving them something else. It's not an issue as to whether you're a fan of the Marlins, it's an issue as to whether you will continue to patronize a business that treats you with no respect and even tries to dupe you.

 

No doubt about it. You buy advance season tickets with almost a promise (and blind faith) that pretty much the same team they fielded this past year will be the same team they field the next year. The FO pushed people into renewing so that they could get first crack and playoff tickets and it never happened. The thing that I wonder is if they had come out and say renew so you can guarentee playoff tickets but due to financial obligations we will not be able to field a very competitive team next season if there would still be people out there that would think about renewing?

 

I think that is where my problem with the loyalty for this team comes into question with some people.

There's a difference between buying advance season tickets and buying single game tickets. TThose that renewed early got duped into thinking that they would be watching the same team they saw last year. They may have eventually purchased season tickets anyway, even after the fire sale, but I can easily see how they would be infuriated by an apparent con-job perpetuated by Loria.

 

I'm still excited about Marlins baseball. I seriously don't mind watching a young team grow together - Hell, I probably enjoyed '98 more than I did this past year. I like seeing how the prospects look when they get to the big leagues, but that is not the point. The point is that the ownership extorted money out of its most loyal fans by having them pay for one thing and then giving them something else. It's not an issue as to whether you're a fan of the Marlins, it's an issue as to whether you will continue to patronize a business that treats you with no respect and even tries to dupe you.

 

 

No doubt about it. You buy advance season tickets with almost a promise (and blind faith) that pretty much the same team they fielded this past year will be the same team they field the next year. The FO pushed people into renewing so that they could get first crack and playoff tickets and it never happened. The thing that I wonder is if they had come out and say renew so you can guarentee playoff tickets but due to financial obligations we will not be able to field a very competitive team next season if there would still be people out there that would think about renewing?

 

I think that is where my problem with the loyalty for this team comes into question with some people.

 

I agree 100%. They could have easily made that statement, but the reason they didn't is because they know that revenues would have been lower if they had. Some "fans" just want to watch a winner, that's just how they are. If the FO had told them that we are gonna go young next year, they wouldn't have bought tickets. The ownership wanted to ensure that they could maximize season ticket sales in a year that they knew they weren't gonna be competitive, so they forced a deposit on season tickets for playoff priority. Obviously it pisses off the fans that just want to come to the ballpark to see a winner, but it has another effect. Those people that would have bought season tickets under any circumstances feel that they were conned into buying a product that management knew they would never get. Now they are happy to go see a major league team and support whomever wears that Marlin uniform, but it's hard to give money to a guy that you know perpetuated a scam on you. The sad thing is that a lot of those people would have come to the park anyway - he didn't have to dupe them. He swindled the bandwagonners and pissed off a lot of loyal fans that would have renewed anyway. That's no way to run a business, it's more like the way businesses operate when they know they won't be around to feel the reprocussions.

The question obviously becomes how many times can you build, tear down, rebuild down, tear down and then rebuild a fan base? It took so many years for this franchise to have the attendance numbers that it shared the last several years, but what is it going to take now? Another WS title perhaps? Somehow I don't think that even another title will bring the fans back if people like Samson are still in charge. That's not to say that I'm looking for an ownership change, but if Samson is the political face of this franchise so to speak, then how people fans is he going to keep away?

You go to the games to root for the team, not the players. Ya they might not win as much, but you might as well sue the Marlins for being mediocre last season with an all-star lineup...

People work really hard for $800 and should be able to do what they want with that money, even if it means demanding a refund for a product you thought would be different. Good for him for standing up for himself as a consumer. Good for the people that spend $800 to watch baseball and stick it out with the team too. Its always a personal choice.

People work really hard for $800 and should be able to do what they want with that money, even if it means demanding a refund for a product you thought would be different. Good for him for standing up for himself as a consumer. Good for the people that spend $800 to watch baseball and stick it out with the team too. Its always a personal choice.

 

I agree with you.

 

 

But if that person chooses to only watch when he thinks they are good, then that just shows how stereotypically predictable Marlin fans are.

Just to make one thing clear...I'm pretty sure that $800 only represents the deposit. The $800 gets him nothing. The actual cost of the tickets, I would imagine, is something like $2000 a seat for the season. For those of you counting at home, that's $25 a game. That's about what ours cost.

 

Let's be honest here. It would probably make more financial sense to just eat the deposit, waste the $800, and then you could go and buy every game for a total less than the $1200 that is the difference between the deposit and the face value of the tickets.

 

What I'm saying basically is that the market value of a season ticket has got to be significantly less than $1200.

Lots of luck - I'm rooting for you.

 

What really irks me about this is that the Marlins felt that they spent too much money on contracts based on their financial situation so they decided to "get some of their money back" (i.e. NOT spend it in future years) by making a "market correction" - what about the people who were misled in their ticket purchase? They don't have that same right - to get their money back when the purchase doesn't work for THEM? The Marlins can bail, but the fans can't?

 

I hope you win this - it could be a longshot because these companies/organizations have a way of getting around things, but I would love to see you win!

 

You can't be serious. Fans have the easiest out clause of the two parties. Their exit barriers are almost non-existant in comparision.

 

 

Not that its of much of any revelance to your correspondence with American Express, but season ticket holders wouldn't have been blocked from buying playoff tickets if they did not re-up by September. It was an additional service provided by the Marlins, which you agreed to on the belief they would not only make the playoffs but put out a team you consider worth watching the next season. Rather than risk the possibility of not getting playoff tickets (and, then, not in your seat), you opted to ignore the team's place in the standings and its strained negotiations with the city of Miami and guaranteed your seats.

 

Well, actually it wasn't just to guarantee your seat but to guarantee a seat. Getting good playoff seats is not easy and getting any WS tickets at all is extremely tough (you're likely to end up paying a fortune to a broker or someone selling illegally).

For the record, you can re-news your season tickets after the deadline... I am a season ticket holder and following the 2003 Playoffs and World Series I didnt re-new my tickets till the next Febuary for 2004 and I still got my same seat and had the same playoffs seats for the 03 Playoffs...

That used to be the case but they did it differently this year.

 

I'm not asking for a refund and my tickets were about $1500. I think it's important to go to games now but that doesn't mean I don't disapprove of what they did. What they did was wrong and if you put aside your hard-earned money and you don't happen to be wealthy, it hurts.

You weren't prevented from getting playoff tickets. They weren't saying if you didn't renew by September that you get neither playoff tickets or 2006 tickets. As far as I'm aware the deadline to re-new your tickets hasn't even passed yet (the Nationals', said to be one of the early birds this year, was yesterday). This was an additional service (abet in a more restricted form than they had in past years) provided by the Marlins to season ticket holders to lock in their seats for the playoffs and 2006 season. The ONLY people who were supposedly 'scammed' are the ones who A. didn't want to wait in line for tickets to a possible playoff series or B. ignored caution and re-upped at first oportunity. Not to say it's their fault, but let's lay the all the facts out there.

I'd bet money the Marlins promote players such as Josh Beckett and Carlos Delgado in their advertising campaigns for tickets.

 

If a person paid for tickets on the basis that those two players would be a part of what they are paying to see I think his argument is very valid.

 

I hope you win sir.

You weren't prevented from getting playoff tickets. They weren't saying if you didn't renew by September that you get neither playoff tickets or 2006 tickets. As far as I'm aware the deadline to re-new your tickets hasn't even passed yet (the Nationals', said to be one of the early birds this year, was yesterday). This was an additional service (abet in a more restricted form than they had in past years) provided by the Marlins to season ticket holders to lock in their seats for the playoffs and 2006 season. The ONLY people who were supposedly 'scammed' are the ones who A. didn't want to wait in line for tickets to a possible playoff series or B. ignored caution and re-upped at first oportunity. Not to say it's their fault, but let's lay the all the facts out there.

 

This line of arguement seems a little disingenuous. You can't possibly believe everything you're saying here.

 

Yes, you COULD have gotten playoff tickets if you didn't re-up, but you'd have been fighting against hordes of other people, and there were no guarantees.

 

Nothing like sitting in Section 431 for the playoffs when you were one of those who went to 30+ games during the year. If we thought we could wait until after they made the playoffs to buy playoffs tickets, we certainly would've done that. Wait in line? People who were like 9th in line at the stadium weren't even able to get World Series tickets. Which line would you have us wait in and for how long?

I'd bet money the Marlins promote players such as Josh Beckett and Carlos Delgado in their advertising campaigns for tickets.

 

If a person paid for tickets on the basis that those two players would be a part of what they are paying to see I think his argument is very valid.

 

I hope you win sir.

 

 

Renewal book sent to season ticket holders:

 

 

 

Here's the cover:

 

 

 

:whistle

Bingo.