that was his shot and he clearly blew it.

 

I'd rather see bump than him.

 

Your gonna see a whole lot of both this season

Why does Logan "batting practice" Kensing's name keep coming up? Are they kidding? We go into the 9th with a lead to turn it over to him to blow that lead and then some? Anyone but him.

 

Because the bullpen is where starters who can't cut it go

John Smoltz :mischief

GOD NO>>>

 

that's one of the biggest thngs I'd get mad at Jack for lol, I'd tell him whenever he would make the wrong moves, right there and then, screamed, "Bring out bump!", that way they can Boom bum buum bump...

I think the Marlins should invite a ton of relievers on minor-league contracts. Nothing hurts young starting pitchers confidence more than pitching a good game and watching the bullpen blow it.

Great idea, am all up for it except, don't you think they should learn from that, that way they work more on their game so they can pitch more complete games, make them poised to work harder, I don't like starters that depend on bullpens anyway, I like guys like Livan that are old school, take matter into their own hands, like from the 20's, pitch one whole game without looking back, which is hard, but if they work hard they can master it at their peek.

What's the Marlins' setup situation looking like?

-- Tommy J., Sunrise, Fla.

 

Depending on who wins the closer role, one of the setup relievers will either be Travis Bowyer or Joe Borowski. Those two are the early favorites to close. There isn't much experience in the back end of the 'pen, but the team is high on the abilities of Randy Messenger and Chris Resop. Both closed in the Minor Leagues but are regarded as setup candidates right now.

 

Logan Kensing, a second-round pick in 2002, is switching from starter to reliever. Kensing was bothered by an arm injury last season, so we will have to see how he bounces back. Same holds true for Nate Bump. Bump has experience, but he underwent shoulder surgery in the middle of the season, so it is difficult to project when he will be ready. The Marlins still need to find a left-handed setup reliever. Taylor Tankersley, the club's top pick in 2004, is making the switch to the bullpen. He has the makeup to be an excellent setup specialist, but he seems to need a bit more Minor League seasoning before he is ready.

Zo.....baseball just isn't played that way anymore. I'm old-school to and hate the five man rotation. They pamper pitchers too much these days.

 

I still think they need a couple more vets in the pen.

I agree with you, but sometimes men have to be men, they also didn't get paid millions back then, and they do now, they should be able to do remarkable things for the money they are making. That's why I personally LOVE Dontrelle Willis, he hits, he pitches, he has stamina! Sign him long term Beinfest!

I agree with you, but sometimes men have to be men, they also didn't get paid millions back then, and they do now, they should be able to do remarkable things for the money they are making. That's why I personally LOVE Dontrelle Willis, he hits, he pitches, he has stamina! Sign him long term Beinfest!

 

 

The money is the reason there is so much protection regarding pitch-counts.

 

Players aren't investments. You don't wear a Rolex playing basketball, you don't use government bonds as bookmarks, why unnecessarily abuse players?

I agree with you, but sometimes men have to be men, they also didn't get paid millions back then, and they do now, they should be able to do remarkable things for the money they are making. That's why I personally LOVE Dontrelle Willis, he hits, he pitches, he has stamina! Sign him long term Beinfest!

 

The problem is they aren't men.

 

They're boys who have been rushed through their various systems and not given the time to mature physically or learn their craft. For every Dontrelle Willis there are fifty kids who have had their careers desroyed by a system that is the modern equivalent of throwing christians to the lions.

 

Used to be guys spent five, six, seven years learning to pitch (as opposed to throw) in the minors and were lucky to see the inside of a major league clubhouse by the time they were 27. Now, if they're not pitching in the MLs by the time they're 23 they're considered washed up.

I don't believe in pitch counts if a starter is getting four days off instead of three. In the 70's and early 80's pitchers pitched complete games all the time on three days rest. Whatever happened to asking a pitcher if he felt ok on the mound? And taking his word for it?

 

How many teams would be better if they used four man rotations with pitch counts? Not too many good #5 starters out there.

 

I don't agree with the age thing either. 23 year old pitchers are men, not little boys. The more you throw the stronger your arm gets. Leo Mazzone has his starting pitchers throw every day, even the night after a start.

I don't believe in pitch counts if a starter is getting four days off instead of three. In the 70's and early 80's pitchers pitched complete games all the time on three days rest. Whatever happened to asking a pitcher if he felt ok on the mound? And taking his word for it?

 

How many teams would be better if they used four man rotations with pitch counts? Not too many good #5 starters out there.

 

I don't agree with the age thing either. 23 year old pitchers are men, not little boys. The more you throw the stronger your arm gets. Leo Mazzone has his starting pitchers throw every day, even the night after a start.

 

No one called them "little boys", certainly not me.

 

Anyone who saw Scott Olsen at the Marlins recent tent party would be more apt to call him a kid than anything else.

 

The difference between the seventies and eighties, and the fifties and sixties too, beside the mound, is that pitchers spent more time in the minors maturing and strengthening their arms, whether you want to accept that notion or not it's a fact. Used to be guys came up in their late twenties (there were always exceptions) and if they belonged, pitched into their late thirties and sometimes early forties.

 

The absense during part of that time of free agency (and a much lower relative salary structure) was a part of the reason and players staying longer with the team they came up with meaning there were less roster spots for kids. That and the fact that the minimum wage (rookie) 100 mph fastball wasn't the holy grail.

 

Not to mention specialization hadn't become the norm either.

 

The classic example of when baseball changed it's philosophy was David Clyde, a kid who projected to be the second-coming of Nolan Ryan who Texas rushed right of highschool and into an ML uni at age 18, only to watch him blow out his arm and end his career. Even Ryan, who was freak by the standards of the day didn't really pitch in the bigs until age 21 and even then didn't hit 200+ innings until he was 25. The same goes for Bob Gibson, perhaps the greatest pitcher to ever live.

 

BTW, we just have different perspectives and are coming to different conclusions, yours is as valid as mine. You think I'm wrong, I think you're wrong, so goes life on MLB messageboards. :thumbup

It's cool. This is the US, so we agree to disagree.

The whole idea of old school baseball is the principal that makes these guys warriors. A warrior is built of strength, stamina, and super abilities that not every average Joe can match. If a pitcher can't hold a workload then maybe he isn't meant to be a pitcher, I wouldn't want a pitcher on my team that isn't a work horse, trade them despite their potencial and look for someone else, it's simple. I know I might get bashed for this, but guys am tired of all these babies crying over their nails, getting sore after ONE damn game. Dammit step up your work ethic! Work hard, don't settle for what you have, work hard, become GREAT.

Why would you get bashed for that? I agree with you.