How about we legalize all the illegal aliens already here who have been working hard and stayed out of trouble. Then, allow anyone that wants to come to this country to work to come into the country for thirty days to find a job. If they find a job, let them stay. If not, they have to go back. They can come back in for another thirty days a few months later. Then penalize employers severely for hiring illegal immigrants (presumably the only illegal immigrants will be the ones that can't find a job in thirty days... which is to say, none... they'll find a job within a day or two... they're hard workers and don't make any damn excuses like all those welfare bums). Enforce the minimum wage, the benefits for workers, all the protections already in place.

 

How does that sound?

 

 

Wait wouldn't that just drive up the prices of everything? I mean that is what you were just saying a few posts ago. We will all starve under that plan ahhhhhh!

 

:lol :lol :lol :lol

How about we legalize all the illegal aliens already here who have been working hard and stayed out of trouble. Then, allow anyone that wants to come to this country to work to come into the country for thirty days to find a job. If they find a job, let them stay. If not, they have to go back. They can come back in for another thirty days a few months later. Then penalize employers severely for hiring illegal immigrants (presumably the only illegal immigrants will be the ones that can't find a job in thirty days... which is to say, none... they'll find a job within a day or two... they're hard workers and don't make any damn excuses like all those welfare bums). Enforce the minimum wage, the benefits for workers, all the protections already in place.

 

How does that sound?

 

 

Wait wouldn't that just drive up the prices of everything? I mean that is what you were just saying a few posts ago. We will all starve under that plan ahhhhhh!

 

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

The minimum wage and the benefits for workers are enforced now. That wouldn't change. The main difference would be to bring illegal aliens out of the shadows.

How about we legalize all the illegal aliens already here who have been working hard and stayed out of trouble. Then, allow anyone that wants to come to this country to work to come into the country for thirty days to find a job. If they find a job, let them stay. If not, they have to go back. They can come back in for another thirty days a few months later. Then penalize employers severely for hiring illegal immigrants (presumably the only illegal immigrants will be the ones that can't find a job in thirty days... which is to say, none... they'll find a job within a day or two... they're hard workers and don't make any damn excuses like all those welfare bums). Enforce the minimum wage, the benefits for workers, all the protections already in place.

 

How does that sound?

 

 

Wait wouldn't that just drive up the prices of everything? I mean that is what you were just saying a few posts ago. We will all starve under that plan ahhhhhh!

 

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

The minimum wage and the benefits for workers are enforced now. That wouldn't change. The main difference would be to bring illegal aliens out of the shadows.

 

Even for illegal immigrants? No I don't think so. I mean you can tell me illegal immigrants are paid minimum wage and full benefits if you want, but I will believe they are getting low-balled and paid under the table.

 

So if we are going to pay these no un-illegal-immigrants the cost of doing the job, and giving them full benefits, why don't we just give those jobs to Americans? I don't see how we will starve and go broke under one plan and not the other according to you.

 

Keep backing yourself into a corner it's cute.

How about we legalize all the illegal aliens already here who have been working hard and stayed out of trouble. Then, allow anyone that wants to come to this country to work to come into the country for thirty days to find a job. If they find a job, let them stay. If not, they have to go back. They can come back in for another thirty days a few months later. Then penalize employers severely for hiring illegal immigrants (presumably the only illegal immigrants will be the ones that can't find a job in thirty days... which is to say, none... they'll find a job within a day or two... they're hard workers and don't make any damn excuses like all those welfare bums). Enforce the minimum wage, the benefits for workers, all the protections already in place.

 

How does that sound?

 

 

Wait wouldn't that just drive up the prices of everything? I mean that is what you were just saying a few posts ago. We will all starve under that plan ahhhhhh!

 

:lol :lol :lol :lol

 

The minimum wage and the benefits for workers are enforced now. That wouldn't change. The main difference would be to bring illegal aliens out of the shadows.

 

Even for illegal immigrants? No I don't think so. I mean you can tell me illegal immigrants are paid minimum wage and full benefits if you want, but I will believe they are getting low-balled and paid under the table.

 

So if we are going to pay these no un-illegal-immigrants the cost of doing the job, and giving them full benefits, why don't we just give those jobs to Americans? I don't see how we will starve and go broke under one plan and not the other according to you.

 

Keep backing yourself into a corner it's cute.

 

No, of course many illegal aliens are being paid under the table and businesses try their best to hide them. Contrary to popular belief, most illegal aliens are paid at or above the minimum wage. The problem with American workers is that you can't pay them minimum wage or slightly above minimum wage. They'd rather go on welfare.

you can't say on one hand that illegals are "cheap labor" that helps keep prices down and then on the other hand say that they are getting min. wage w/benefits

 

if they get the same deal as everyone else, then there would be no economic benefit from illegals as far as production costs go

you can't say on one hand that illegals are "cheap labor" that helps keep prices down and then on the other hand say that they are getting min. wage w/benefits

 

if they get the same deal as everyone else, then there would be no economic benefit from illegals as far as production costs go

 

 

yes i can. if the average unskilled american worker asks for or requires a wage well above the minimum (say 10-11 dollars per hour) and the average illegal worker works for minimum wage, that's a 4 to 5 dollar per hour difference. i should have pointed out that, of course, most don't get benefits. i have to say, however, that i know a good number of illegal aliens and the vast majority work for at or slightly above the minimum wage. it's just htat americans won't work for that.

 

another thing to add. this economy has a labor shortage of about 4-5 million jobs. without these workers, the shortage would be much higher (about 15 million). that in itself would increase wages.

I am glad that finally the media is taking notice of problem. They have to start doing something. The issue is getting out of hand. They should start sending some of them back.

 

Well I definitely have the opposite sentiments. I'd like to hear your reasoning for this. Illegal immigrants take the jobs that most people normally wouldn't want...They are a vital asset to our economy, and I think that 500,000 person protest in California is a great example.

 

Do you know any illegal immigrants? I feel that when you personalize yourself with the issue, it's easier to make the 'right' decision....the humane and moral decision.

 

DING! DING! DING!

 

All downhill from this post.

 

I'm not working those jobs. They can do it. There's enough spoiled homeless around here who won't do jobs immigrants here do. Immigrants are necessary.

you can't say on one hand that illegals are "cheap labor" that helps keep prices down and then on the other hand say that they are getting min. wage w/benefits

 

if they get the same deal as everyone else, then there would be no economic benefit from illegals as far as production costs go

 

 

yes i can. if the average unskilled american worker asks for or requires a wage well above the minimum (say 10-11 dollars per hour) and the average illegal worker works for minimum wage, that's a 4 to 5 dollar per hour difference. i should have pointed out that, of course, most don't get benefits. i have to say, however, that i know a good number of illegal aliens and the vast majority work for at or slightly above the minimum wage. it's just htat americans won't work for that.

 

another thing to add. this economy has a labor shortage of about 4-5 million jobs. without these workers, the shortage would be much higher (about 15 million). that in itself would increase wages.

 

But by your plan we would be legalizing them as citizens. What would stop them from demanding the higher wages or sitting out and not doing anything and being a drain on the economy and welfare? Once you legalize them they will get all the rights, benefits and everything. They work for what they do now because they have NO leverage. Make them citizens and they have all the leverage a normal citizen and worker does. Do you not realize that?

 

 

 

I am glad that finally the media is taking notice of problem. They have to start doing something. The issue is getting out of hand. They should start sending some of them back.

 

Well I definitely have the opposite sentiments. I'd like to hear your reasoning for this. Illegal immigrants take the jobs that most people normally wouldn't want...They are a vital asset to our economy, and I think that 500,000 person protest in California is a great example.

 

Do you know any illegal immigrants? I feel that when you personalize yourself with the issue, it's easier to make the 'right' decision....the humane and moral decision.

 

DING! DING! DING!

 

All downhill from this post.

 

I'm not working those jobs. They can do it. There's enough spoiled homeless around here who won't do jobs immigrants here do. Immigrants are necessary.

 

Why not welfare reform? There was a point in time when we made well being welfare citizens actually work for their money. We found stuff for them to do. We could do it again.

It's so easy to critique and analyze when the only thing that separates you from them is your place of birth.

you can't say on one hand that illegals are "cheap labor" that helps keep prices down and then on the other hand say that they are getting min. wage w/benefits

 

if they get the same deal as everyone else, then there would be no economic benefit from illegals as far as production costs go

 

 

yes i can. if the average unskilled american worker asks for or requires a wage well above the minimum (say 10-11 dollars per hour) and the average illegal worker works for minimum wage, that's a 4 to 5 dollar per hour difference. i should have pointed out that, of course, most don't get benefits. i have to say, however, that i know a good number of illegal aliens and the vast majority work for at or slightly above the minimum wage. it's just htat americans won't work for that.

 

another thing to add. this economy has a labor shortage of about 4-5 million jobs. without these workers, the shortage would be much higher (about 15 million). that in itself would increase wages.

 

But by your plan we would be legalizing them as citizens. What would stop them from demanding the higher wages or sitting out and not doing anything and being a drain on the economy and welfare? Once you legalize them they will get all the rights, benefits and everything. They work for what they do now because they have NO leverage. Make them citizens and they have all the leverage a normal citizen and worker does. Do you not realize that?

 

 

 

I am glad that finally the media is taking notice of problem. They have to start doing something. The issue is getting out of hand. They should start sending some of them back.

 

Well I definitely have the opposite sentiments. I'd like to hear your reasoning for this. Illegal immigrants take the jobs that most people normally wouldn't want...They are a vital asset to our economy, and I think that 500,000 person protest in California is a great example.

 

Do you know any illegal immigrants? I feel that when you personalize yourself with the issue, it's easier to make the 'right' decision....the humane and moral decision.

 

DING! DING! DING!

 

All downhill from this post.

 

I'm not working those jobs. They can do it. There's enough spoiled homeless around here who won't do jobs immigrants here do. Immigrants are necessary.

 

Why not welfare reform? There was a point in time when we made well being welfare citizens actually work for their money. We found stuff for them to do. We could do it again.

 

Oh, because they're incapable of doing it for themselves?

It's so easy to critique and analyze when the only thing that separates you from them is your place of birth.

 

 

Like I said before not everyone can be born here or live here. Some people are dealt a bad hand in life. It is the truth there is no way around it. This is all the more reason we should thankful for being American citizens.

 

What seperates Mexicans from Nigerians, or any other poor African country, or any other poor country period that has people who want to come to work here? Would you have problems if companies sent planes to these countries and brought all these people back to work as illegal immigrants?

It's so easy to critique and analyze when the only thing that separates you from them is your place of birth.

 

 

Like I said before not everyone can be born here or live here. Some people are dealt a bad hand in life. It is the truth there is no way around it. This is all the more reason we shoudl thankful for being American citizens.

 

What seperates Mexicans from Nigerians, or any other poor African country, or any other poor country period that has people who want to come to work here? Would you have problems if companies sent planes to these countries and brought all these people back to work as illegal immigrants?

 

It's better than Pepsi moving their plant over there and setting up bad work conditions and paying them 5% of what they'd make over here. Which is what the system is now.

 

You act like they're taking "our" jobs. Sorry, those jobs ain't my job.

I don't get how you don't see the correlation between the migration of people and its inevitable effect.

 

We stole America from the Indians. Why are you on your high horse like this place belongs to you and nobody else gets a chance to succeed? And don't give me the bull about illegal law, because it's a load of crap. If there was a number, I bet less than 5% of the illegal immigrants have the resources necessary to adhere to the immigration standards we have set up in this country.

Guess what there are also poor people in Africa who would kill for jobs here too. Wanna rent a plane, fly some over?

 

 

 

its not just the US that has "problems" with immigration, Africans & Middle Eastern people migrate to european countries in search for the same thing and also end up doing the equivalent of illegal immigrants working the fields & such here

 

 

and you are an a**hole by the way

It's so easy to critique and analyze when the only thing that separates you from them is your place of birth.

 

 

Like I said before not everyone can be born here or live here. Some people are dealt a bad hand in life. It is the truth there is no way around it. This is all the more reason we shoudl thankful for being American citizens.

 

What seperates Mexicans from Nigerians, or any other poor African country, or any other poor country period that has people who want to come to work here? Would you have problems if companies sent planes to these countries and brought all these people back to work as illegal immigrants?

 

It's better than Pepsi moving their plant over there and setting up bad work conditions and paying them 5% of what they'd make over here. Which is what the system is now.

 

You act like they're taking "our" jobs. Sorry, those jobs ain't my job.

 

Pepsi is the major hirer of Mexican immigrants? :blink: Whoa. And to think it was a bunch of grape vinyards and oranges crops out in California. Countries could stop Pepsi from building in their countries and if people found out about sweatshop like conditions they might just stop buying Pepsi products since there is a readily avaliable rival.

 

Would you be okay with Pepsi going to Africa, bringing back people to work for $1.50 an hour?

 

nobody else gets a chance to succeed

 

So the only way to succeed in life is being an American worker? Whoa, must suck for all the Asians and everyone else. So should we let in everyone who wants in in? That wouldn't help things at all. So then who do you let in? Just Mexicans? Well Haitians would probably like work here too. Plus lets not forget a lot of other S. American countries. You want to round them all up and bring them all in?

you can't say on one hand that illegals are "cheap labor" that helps keep prices down and then on the other hand say that they are getting min. wage w/benefits

 

if they get the same deal as everyone else, then there would be no economic benefit from illegals as far as production costs go

 

 

yes i can. if the average unskilled american worker asks for or requires a wage well above the minimum (say 10-11 dollars per hour) and the average illegal worker works for minimum wage, that's a 4 to 5 dollar per hour difference. i should have pointed out that, of course, most don't get benefits. i have to say, however, that i know a good number of illegal aliens and the vast majority work for at or slightly above the minimum wage. it's just htat americans won't work for that.

 

another thing to add. this economy has a labor shortage of about 4-5 million jobs. without these workers, the shortage would be much higher (about 15 million). that in itself would increase wages.

 

But by your plan we would be legalizing them as citizens. What would stop them from demanding the higher wages or sitting out and not doing anything and being a drain on the economy and welfare? Once you legalize them they will get all the rights, benefits and everything. They work for what they do now because they have NO leverage. Make them citizens and they have all the leverage a normal citizen and worker does. Do you not realize that?

 

 

Actually, probably not. Well, they wouldn't require as much as Americans. Immigrants come to this country because they're highly motivated to succeed and like to work. They'll still work for less. They just won't be exploited as much as they are now. On average those legalized workers would still work for less.

you can't say on one hand that illegals are "cheap labor" that helps keep prices down and then on the other hand say that they are getting min. wage w/benefits

 

if they get the same deal as everyone else, then there would be no economic benefit from illegals as far as production costs go

 

 

yes i can. if the average unskilled american worker asks for or requires a wage well above the minimum (say 10-11 dollars per hour) and the average illegal worker works for minimum wage, that's a 4 to 5 dollar per hour difference. i should have pointed out that, of course, most don't get benefits. i have to say, however, that i know a good number of illegal aliens and the vast majority work for at or slightly above the minimum wage. it's just htat americans won't work for that.

 

another thing to add. this economy has a labor shortage of about 4-5 million jobs. without these workers, the shortage would be much higher (about 15 million). that in itself would increase wages.

 

But by your plan we would be legalizing them as citizens. What would stop them from demanding the higher wages or sitting out and not doing anything and being a drain on the economy and welfare? Once you legalize them they will get all the rights, benefits and everything. They work for what they do now because they have NO leverage. Make them citizens and they have all the leverage a normal citizen and worker does. Do you not realize that?

 

 

Actually, probably not. Well, they wouldn't require as much as Americans. Immigrants come to this country because they're highly motivated to succeed and like to work. They'll still work for less. They just won't be exploited as much as they are now. On average those legalized workers would still work for less.

 

Don't you get it? You legalize them, they become Americans. I'd hate to tell you, I don't think illegal immigrants work for less because they want to or because it helps us out. Nor do I think they are dumb. If you make them citizens and they realize their fellow Americans would only do the job for $X/hr then they will want that too. While they are illegal they have no leverage because they have to take what they can or go back to where they came from. You make them legal citizens they can hang around and wait for what they want. I am not faulting them for it but the nature of people is to get as much as they can.

you can't say on one hand that illegals are "cheap labor" that helps keep prices down and then on the other hand say that they are getting min. wage w/benefits

 

if they get the same deal as everyone else, then there would be no economic benefit from illegals as far as production costs go

 

 

yes i can. if the average unskilled american worker asks for or requires a wage well above the minimum (say 10-11 dollars per hour) and the average illegal worker works for minimum wage, that's a 4 to 5 dollar per hour difference. i should have pointed out that, of course, most don't get benefits. i have to say, however, that i know a good number of illegal aliens and the vast majority work for at or slightly above the minimum wage. it's just htat americans won't work for that.

 

another thing to add. this economy has a labor shortage of about 4-5 million jobs. without these workers, the shortage would be much higher (about 15 million). that in itself would increase wages.

 

But by your plan we would be legalizing them as citizens. What would stop them from demanding the higher wages or sitting out and not doing anything and being a drain on the economy and welfare? Once you legalize them they will get all the rights, benefits and everything. They work for what they do now because they have NO leverage. Make them citizens and they have all the leverage a normal citizen and worker does. Do you not realize that?

 

 

Actually, probably not. Well, they wouldn't require as much as Americans. Immigrants come to this country because they're highly motivated to succeed and like to work. They'll still work for less. They just won't be exploited as much as they are now. On average those legalized workers would still work for less.

 

Don't you get it? You legalize them, they become Americans. I'd hate to tell you, I don't think illegal immigrants work for less because they want to or because it helps us out. Nor do I think they are dumb. If you make them citizens and they realize their fellow Americans would only do the job for $X/hr then they will want that too. While they are illegal they have no leverage because they have to take what they can or go back to where they came from. You make them legal citizens they can hang around and wait for what they want. I am not faulting them for it but the nature of people is to get as much as they can.

 

 

Actually, there have been many studies that show that new Americans continue to earn less money than their native born Americans for a long time after they become citizens. Something like 15 years. They catch up after 15 years and then overtake them slowly.

You are an pompous, elitist prick...and I'm sure I'm not the first person to tell you that so far in life. :thumbup :thumbup

you can't say on one hand that illegals are "cheap labor" that helps keep prices down and then on the other hand say that they are getting min. wage w/benefits

 

if they get the same deal as everyone else, then there would be no economic benefit from illegals as far as production costs go

 

 

yes i can. if the average unskilled american worker asks for or requires a wage well above the minimum (say 10-11 dollars per hour) and the average illegal worker works for minimum wage, that's a 4 to 5 dollar per hour difference. i should have pointed out that, of course, most don't get benefits. i have to say, however, that i know a good number of illegal aliens and the vast majority work for at or slightly above the minimum wage. it's just htat americans won't work for that.

 

another thing to add. this economy has a labor shortage of about 4-5 million jobs. without these workers, the shortage would be much higher (about 15 million). that in itself would increase wages.

 

But by your plan we would be legalizing them as citizens. What would stop them from demanding the higher wages or sitting out and not doing anything and being a drain on the economy and welfare? Once you legalize them they will get all the rights, benefits and everything. They work for what they do now because they have NO leverage. Make them citizens and they have all the leverage a normal citizen and worker does. Do you not realize that?

 

 

Actually, probably not. Well, they wouldn't require as much as Americans. Immigrants come to this country because they're highly motivated to succeed and like to work. They'll still work for less. They just won't be exploited as much as they are now. On average those legalized workers would still work for less.

 

Don't you get it? You legalize them, they become Americans. I'd hate to tell you, I don't think illegal immigrants work for less because they want to or because it helps us out. Nor do I think they are dumb. If you make them citizens and they realize their fellow Americans would only do the job for $X/hr then they will want that too. While they are illegal they have no leverage because they have to take what they can or go back to where they came from. You make them legal citizens they can hang around and wait for what they want. I am not faulting them for it but the nature of people is to get as much as they can.

 

 

Actually, there have been many studies that show that new Americans continue to earn less money than their native born Americans for a long time after they become citizens. Something like 15 years. They catch up after 15 years and then overtake them slowly.

 

Now why might that be? Because immigrants tend to enter into society as labor workers. You don't immigrate here from and become a doctor, or a lawyer automatically because we tend not to honor those certificates from their previous countries. Use some common sense please. Nor do they come here and have business opened up for them to run. Nor do they just come here and have multi-million/billion corporations to lead. They have to earn all that over time.

Guys, the fact that they're here is illegal. I know if you're acquainted with someone that's here on these terms, it's hard to cope with a fact.

Guys, the fact that they're here is illegal. I know if you're acquainted with someone that's here on these terms, it's hard to cope with a fact.

 

 

Someone already made the point we got this country illegally from the Indians.

 

I don't see you up in arms and moving over that.

 

ILLEGAL [OMGosh]

Guys, the fact that they're here is illegal. I know if you're acquainted with someone that's here on these terms, it's hard to cope with a fact.

 

 

Someone already made the point we got this country illegally from the Indians.

 

I don't see you up in arms and moving over that.

 

ILLEGAL [OMGosh]

 

Illegal by who's law? By today's law? So should we use today's laws to judge the past? Give your house up to the Indians if you want, I am sure whatever local tribe by you would be grateful and sell it and disperse the money among them. Laws change over time, it is an amazing concept I know.

Guys, the fact that they're here is illegal. I know if you're acquainted with someone that's here on these terms, it's hard to cope with a fact.

 

 

Someone already made the point we got this country illegally from the Indians.

 

I don't see you up in arms and moving over that.

 

ILLEGAL [OMGosh]

 

Illegal by who's law? By today's law? So should we use today's laws to judge the past? Give your house up to the Indians if you want, I am sure whatever local tribe by you would be grateful and sell it and disperse the money among them. Laws change over time, it is an amazing concept I know.

 

See I don't care.

 

But, I'm also not getting all up in arms in the illegal distinction because I could care less if they're working sh*t jobs for less than minimum wage.