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In what could be good news for the Marlins


Marlins2003

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The Angels, with whom we just concluded a trade of Chris Resop for Kevin Gregg are reported to have reached agreement with Matthews to be their new centerfielder. What makes this potentially important to the Fish is the depth of the Angels' outfield corps and the need to free up a roster spot for Matthews who since he is coming via free agency will have to have one cleared for him (as opposed to a trade where one replaces the other).

 

Just an observation. I'm sure Admin would love to lend a hand and help them out of their predicament. :mischief2

edit:

 

BTW, the three are Terry Evans, Tommy Murphy and Reggie Willits. All are legitimate centerfielders. See their pages on Milb.com

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Unless you're excited by Juan Rivera, I don't see any reason the Angels need to make a move, remember, they have a DH in the American Leauge, and Anderson and Guerrero will be using those spots quite frequently, allowing them to have outfield depth to that degree.

 

I've never seen Willits, Murphy, etc. in action, but it certainly says something about their expected abilitiy when an organization like the Angels (who value youth to an almost inconceivable degree) "give up" on them and instead sign a high-ticket mid-production guy like Matthews.

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They have a DH in the American League? Gee :banghead BTW, Both Anderson and Rivera DH, as do others.

 

If you looked at their roster you would see an overabundance of outfielders not to mention Figgins who can and has played there as well. Not only do they have these three young guys, they have more of them in the pipeline. One or more will be traded before the season starts, I'm hoping we are one of their trading partners.

 

 

 

 

 

Unless you're excited by Juan Rivera, I don't see any reason the Angels need to make a move, remember, they have a DH in the American Leauge, and Anderson and Guerrero will be using those spots quite frequently, allowing them to have outfield depth to that degree.

 

I've never seen Willits, Murphy, etc. in action, but it certainly says something about their expected abilitiy when an organization like the Angels (who value youth to an almost inconceivable degree) "give up" on them and instead sign a high-ticket mid-production guy like Matthews.

 

They aren't giving up on them. Stoneham is taking the team in a different direction which is to become more mashers and less of a finesse team. As a whole offensively the team underachieved in 2007 and that's what they are trying to fix. I suspect you actually know you're remark about the team "giving up" on these players isn't true, all of them were in the minors last season, all hitting over .300, and Willits having the highest OBP in minor league baseball. They (the three of them) are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

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They have a DH in the American League? Gee :banghead BTW, Both Anderson and Rivera DH, as do others.

 

If you looked at their roster you would see an overabundance of outfielders not to mention Figgins who can and has played there as well. Not only do they have these three young guys, they have more of them in the pipeline. One or more will be traded before the season starts, I'm hoping we are one of their trading partners.

 

 

 

 

 

Unless you're excited by Juan Rivera, I don't see any reason the Angels need to make a move, remember, they have a DH in the American Leauge, and Anderson and Guerrero will be using those spots quite frequently, allowing them to have outfield depth to that degree.

 

I've never seen Willits, Murphy, etc. in action, but it certainly says something about their expected abilitiy when an organization like the Angels (who value youth to an almost inconceivable degree) "give up" on them and instead sign a high-ticket mid-production guy like Matthews.

 

They aren't giving up on them. Stoneham is taking the team in a different direction which is to become more mashers and less of a finesse team. As a whole offensively the team underachieved in 2007 and that's what they are trying to fix. I suspect you actually know you're remark about the team "giving up" on these players isn't true, all of them were in the minors last season, all hitting over .300, and Willits having the highest OBP in minor league baseball. They (the three of them) are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Murphy's 27, going to be 28...that's pretty old to have gotten 70 AB's in the majors, and to repeat AA at 25 and 26 isn't exactly glimmering.

 

Willits is 25, at the age where players stop being a "prospect" and start entering their prime. If an organization such as the Angels, which has superb scouting and teeming youth, doesn't see starting quality value in a 25 year old who put up a good .327/.448/.426 in AAA (and let's be honest, it's the PCL...the ball jumps there) something's very very wrong with the guy. Especially when Matthews is essentially the same 8-something OPS player as Willits, yet Matthews is worth $55 million over 5 years (which isn't a done deal, BTW) and Willits isn't worth a look.

 

Writing's on the wall on these two.

 

They have a DH in the American League? Gee :banghead BTW, Both Anderson and Rivera DH, as do others.

 

If you looked at their roster you would see an overabundance of outfielders not to mention Figgins who can and has played there as well. Not only do they have these three young guys, they have more of them in the pipeline. One or more will be traded before the season starts, I'm hoping we are one of their trading partners.

 

 

 

 

 

Unless you're excited by Juan Rivera, I don't see any reason the Angels need to make a move, remember, they have a DH in the American Leauge, and Anderson and Guerrero will be using those spots quite frequently, allowing them to have outfield depth to that degree.

 

I've never seen Willits, Murphy, etc. in action, but it certainly says something about their expected abilitiy when an organization like the Angels (who value youth to an almost inconceivable degree) "give up" on them and instead sign a high-ticket mid-production guy like Matthews.

 

They aren't giving up on them. Stoneham is taking the team in a different direction which is to become more mashers and less of a finesse team. As a whole offensively the team underachieved in 2007 and that's what they are trying to fix. I suspect you actually know you're remark about the team "giving up" on these players isn't true, all of them were in the minors last season, all hitting over .300, and Willits having the highest OBP in minor league baseball. They (the three of them) are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

 

Murphy's 27, going to be 28...that's pretty old to have gotten 70 AB's in the majors, and to repeat AA at 25 and 26 isn't exactly glimmering.

 

Willits is 25, at the age where players stop being a "prospect" and start entering their prime. If an organization such as the Angels, which has superb scouting and teeming youth, doesn't see starting quality value in a 25 year old who put up a good .327/.448/.426 in AAA (and let's be honest, it's the PCL...the ball jumps there) something's very very wrong with the guy. Especially when Matthews is essentially the same 8-something OPS player as Willits, yet Matthews is worth $55 million over 5 years (which isn't a done deal, BTW) and Willits isn't worth a look.

 

Writing's on the wall on these two.

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Only you could find a way to find fault with an achievement like having the highest OBP (.448 at any level of the game is astounding, think about it, getting on base almost half the times you come to plate) in minor league baseball last season, but then again by your standards Uggla and Willingham shouldn't have been playing in their rookie years either in 2006, or any number of other players who have either matured late or been blocked within the organizations that held their rights.

 

 

 

 

 

You're studdering again.

 

Hey, when you can't respond, make a meaningless attack. :thumbup

Damn, you're pathetic.

 

Look at you're post above, it's duplicated. It was a joke.

 

God you really are paranoid.

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Only you could find a way to find fault with an achievement like having the highest OBP (.448 at any level of the game is astounding, think about it, getting on base almost half the times you come to plate) in minor league baseball last season, but then again by your standards Uggla and Willingham shouldn't have been playing in their rookie years either in 2006, or any number of other players who have either matured late or been blocked within the organizations that held their rights.

 

If a player A has something as great as that stat, yet the parent club falls all over themselves to pay an exorbidant amount for essentially the same player, player B...doesn't it say SOMETHING about the serious doubts the organization has about player A's ability? Especially an organization as well run and scouted as the Angels?

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The best news for this is the fact that now they most likely will not pursue baldelli and crawford which takes a potential suitor out of the TB OF market for us.

 

You might be right.

 

The less people interested in signing CFer we have some interest in, from these three guys to Baldelli and/or Crawford, or even Costa and/or Gathright in KC, or anyone else works in our favor.

 

The reason this interested me besides a suggested internet link between Willits and the Fish was that Beinfest just completed trade negotiations with their GM and the hope that perhaps more would come of those discussions.

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The best news for this is the fact that now they most likely will not pursue baldelli and crawford which takes a potential suitor out of the TB OF market for us.

 

You might be right.

 

The less people interested in signing CFer we have some interest in, from these three guys to Baldelli and/or Crawford, or even Costa and/or Gathright in KC, or anyone else works in our favor.

 

The reason this interested me besides a suggested internet link between Willits and the Fish was that Beinfest just completed trade negotiations with their GM and the hope that perhaps more would come of those discussions.

 

yep, but if he was intending to get them (or if they were actually allowing them to be shopped) I am surprised he wouldnt of tried then within the gregg/resop trade. It wouldnt of been too hard to upgrade a little bit on both ends. Add Jacobs and wilts or something along those lines.

 

It is good either way to see a trade relationship established between the two clubs. For when considering over possible targets we need to always remember where we have trade relationships in the past for. (Like the Dodgers and mets for instance seem to be common trade partners of beinfest).

 

Either way it is good news for the team and helps either limit the market or make another possible asset available to us.

 

I forgot to mention that also the higher priced and more of these crazy contracts like Matthews and pierre just got, it raises the trade value of Crawford and Baldelli whom have very favorable contracts for the marlins purposes.

 

 

D-Rays have what other teams want

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Ken Rosenthal / FOXSports.com

Posted: 11 hours ago

 

Think the Red Sox's Manny Ramirez is a bargain with only two years left on his contract? Discerning shoppers on the trade market should check out the Devil Rays' stash.

 

Left fielder Carl Crawford is signed for $27.5 million over the next four years, including two club options.

 

If the Devil Rays are to trade Carl Crawford, they would most likely ask for some premium young pitching in return. (Brad Mangin/MLB Photos / Getty Images)

 

Center fielder Rocco Baldelli, signed for $26 million over the next five years, including three club options, is even more attractive financially.

 

Think about it: Crawford will earn approximately $40 million less than the Cubs' Alfonso Soriano over the next four years, based on Soriano's new average annual salary.

 

Baldelli, meanwhile, will earn approximately $19 million less than new Dodgers center fielder Juan Pierre over the next five.

 

Here's betting that the two Rays' outfielders, both 25, outperform their older, more expensive peers.

 

The Rays also are getting trade interest in two other young outfielders, Delmon Young and Elijah Dukes, as well as third baseman B.J. Upton, who eventually figures to move to center.

 

To trade Crawford or Baldelli, they would need almost a perfect deal. Both of those players' contracts look more reasonable by the minute, increasing their value to the Rays as well as other clubs.

 

The Phillies and Marlins are among the teams pursuing Baldelli. The Angels and White Sox are among those interested in Crawford. The Devil Rays, deep in position players, would want premium young pitching in return.

 

The way the free-agent market is soaring, the Marlins would not hesitate to give up right-hander Ricky Nolasco and pitching prospects to gain control of Baldelli's contract.

 

The Angels, if they signed free-agent left-hander Barry Zito, could be motivated to trade right-hander Ervin Santana and prospects to grab Crawford.

 

The Rays wouldn't trade both outfielders; it would be one or the other, whoever brought the best deal.

 

With each new free-agent signing ? Gary Matthews Jr. could be next ? the interest in Crawford and Baldelli is likely to continue rising.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6196916

 

 

 

 

 

Rosenthal is an idiot but seems interesting we are mentioned. I still wish we could get crawfrord if we are giving up Johnson perhaps.

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Only you could find a way to find fault with an achievement like having the highest OBP (.448 at any level of the game is astounding, think about it, getting on base almost half the times you come to plate) in minor league baseball last season, but then again by your standards Uggla and Willingham shouldn't have been playing in their rookie years either in 2006, or any number of other players who have either matured late or been blocked within the organizations that held their rights.

 

If a player A has something as great as that stat, yet the parent club falls all over themselves to pay an exorbidant amount for essentially the same player, player B...doesn't it say SOMETHING about the serious doubts the organization has about player A's ability? Especially an organization as well run and scouted as the Angels?

 

You just want to ignore everything that has been written about the Angels this off-season which is in the AL West they think the way to score more runs is to get more guys who hit homeruns and drive in alot of runs. There are has to be fifty legitimate stories out there in the media (OC Register, La Times, FoxSports, ESPN, CNNSI, etc.)

 

Even today, what was the first thing written about the next step Stoneham will take? Trade Chone Figgins for a homerun hitter.

 

From today: LaTimes

 

"Matthews, whose highlight-reel catches made him a regular on ESPN's web-gem segments last season, won't provide the booming bat that the Angels, who failed to land free-agent sluggers Alfonso Soriano and Aramis Ramirez, were seeking to protect Vladimir Guerrero.

 

But he will be a defensive upgrade over Chone Figgins, he would provide considerably more power out of the leadoff spot, and he would enable the Angels to move Figgins back to third base and down in the order, or package Figgins in a trade for a power hitter."

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-angels...rack=crosspromo

 

Willits is the antithesis of how they are trying to build the team for 2007. He's a singles hitter and they already have plenty of those scattered throughout their lineup.

 

Unless you (the collective "you") are happy seeing AA out there all summer, I suggest looking for potential bargains like Willits or a resurgent Joey Gathright is the more logical way to expect the Marlins to go.

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I'm not nearly as high on Willits as some of you guys are. I hope we look elsewhere first.

 

I happen to agree in that I would rather have any number of players but absent signing any of them, in the end I'd be alot happier with a legitimate CFer who can get on base than a utility infielder or a makeshift platoon regardless of how hard they play or their commitment to the team. I for one am thankful AA stepped up the way he did last summer when someone needed to, to me he's deserving of nothing but praise, but if we could find a more polished player who can hit for average and get on base as well, all for near or at the minimum, I'm all for giving him a try.

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I like chone figgins in cf for us. Ramirez and figgins at the top of the order would allow us to move uggla and his 28 homers down in the order.

 

BTw, I am sort of scared because the Angels were interested in willis. I hope does not mean they are going to make a big offer to the fish which includes a cf.

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I like chone figgins in cf for us. Ramirez and figgins at the top of the order would allow us to move uggla and his 28 homers down in the order.

 

BTw, I am sort of scared because the Angels were interested in willis. I hope does not mean they are going to make a big offer to the fish which includes a cf.

I doubt it. they're looking to trade a rotation arm for offense..not the other way.

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Only you could find a way to find fault with an achievement like having the highest OBP (.448 at any level of the game is astounding, think about it, getting on base almost half the times you come to plate) in minor league baseball last season, but then again by your standards Uggla and Willingham shouldn't have been playing in their rookie years either in 2006, or any number of other players who have either matured late or been blocked within the organizations that held their rights.

 

If a player A has something as great as that stat, yet the parent club falls all over themselves to pay an exorbidant amount for essentially the same player, player B...doesn't it say SOMETHING about the serious doubts the organization has about player A's ability? Especially an organization as well run and scouted as the Angels?

 

You just want to ignore everything that has been written about the Angels this off-season which is in the AL West they think the way to score more runs is to get more guys who hit homeruns and drive in alot of runs. There are has to be fifty legitimate stories out there in the media (OC Register, La Times, FoxSports, ESPN, CNNSI, etc.)

 

Even today, what was the first thing written about the next step Stoneham will take? Trade Chone Figgins for a homerun hitter.

 

From today: LaTimes

 

"Matthews, whose highlight-reel catches made him a regular on ESPN's web-gem segments last season, won't provide the booming bat that the Angels, who failed to land free-agent sluggers Alfonso Soriano and Aramis Ramirez, were seeking to protect Vladimir Guerrero.

 

But he will be a defensive upgrade over Chone Figgins, he would provide considerably more power out of the leadoff spot, and he would enable the Angels to move Figgins back to third base and down in the order, or package Figgins in a trade for a power hitter."

 

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-angels...rack=crosspromo

 

Willits is the antithesis of how they are trying to build the team for 2007. He's a singles hitter and they already have plenty of those scattered throughout their lineup.

 

Unless you (the collective "you") are happy seeing AA out there all summer, I suggest looking for potential bargains like Willits or a resurgent Joey Gathright is the more logical way to expect the Marlins to go.

 

And you ignore stats that suggest otherwise.

 

If AAA is the great forecast for abilities, Willits and his .874 OPS in AAA in 2006 is superior to Gary Matthews Jr.'s .866 in the majors this season, yet the Angels have decided you're sure thing for centerfield is not such a sure thing.

 

Adding a guy like Matthews, who never found his power stroke until he got to the bam-box in Arlington is not an upgrade in the power department, and as you noted in the article, the next move is to go get a power hitter. I still fail to see any conceivable way the Marlins are involved in this, or for that matter, would want to be.

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I like chone figgins in cf for us. Ramirez and figgins at the top of the order would allow us to move uggla and his 28 homers down in the order.

 

BTW, I am sort of scared because the Angels were interested in willis. I hope does not mean they are going to make a big offer to the fish which includes a cf.

I doubt it. they're looking to trade a rotation arm for offense..not the other way.

 

I'm floored by it, but the guy who they mention often is Ervin Santana. Personally I don't get it. I don't pretend to be an expert on the Angels or all their players but my take is Santana is a pretty damn good pitcher, and at minimum wage too. Sheesh.

 

I don't even want to take the thoughts merging in my head to their logical conclusion.

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I like chone figgins in cf for us. Ramirez and figgins at the top of the order would allow us to move uggla and his 28 homers down in the order.

 

BTW, I am sort of scared because the Angels were interested in willis. I hope does not mean they are going to make a big offer to the fish which includes a cf.

I doubt it. they're looking to trade a rotation arm for offense..not the other way.

 

I'm floored by it, but the guy who they mention often is Ervin Santana. Personally I don't get it. I don't pretend to be an expert on the Angels or all their players but my take is Santana is a pretty damn good pitcher, and at minimum wage too. Sheesh.

 

I don't even want to take the thoughts merging in my head to their logical conclusion.

 

Well, the players they're rumored to be targeting (Manny) come with that kind of price tag.

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I like chone figgins in cf for us. Ramirez and figgins at the top of the order would allow us to move uggla and his 28 homers down in the order.

 

BTW, I am sort of scared because the Angels were interested in willis. I hope does not mean they are going to make a big offer to the fish which includes a cf.

I doubt it. they're looking to trade a rotation arm for offense..not the other way.

 

I'm floored by it, but the guy who they mention often is Ervin Santana. Personally I don't get it. I don't pretend to be an expert on the Angels or all their players but my take is Santana is a pretty damn good pitcher, and at minimum wage too. Sheesh.

 

I don't even want to take the thoughts merging in my head to their logical conclusion.

look at his whip and BAA against, alot of folks think he can be an ace and alot think he could be only a 3rd.

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I still think Baldelli should be our guy so I'm probably being a little too stubborn to explore other options. It's a shame Vargas had to be dealt already.

 

We all (generally) want Baldelli but as '79's post implies, all these other trades are driving his price higher and higher, and Crawford's totally out of reach.

 

I have a core belief, which drives alot of my thinking. It may be flawed, but it is what I believe.

 

And that is there are any number of players who for one reason or another are destined to spend their careers toiling in the minor leagues not because they don't have the skills to make it in the bigs but for reasons out of their control, like organizations who don't recognize talent unless there's a "name" attached (the Orioles for example who should have done what the Marlins just did but instead keep deluding themselves into thinking if they just sign one more big name guy they will be competitive and wind up having what is it, eight or nine consecutive losing seasons because of it) or because they are blocked by a superstar (no one in the Angels organization who plays CF has to feel good about their chances of making it to the big leagues anytime soon with the Halos based on Matthews' signing today for five years).

 

I know I repeat this line all the time but it was Hanley's remark about how the Red Sox were going to keep him in the minors until the year 2020. So basically I believe when a guy leads all of the minor leagues in OBP he is by definition ready for a new challenge.

 

I can't promise he will succeed, heck look at Hermida the can't miss prospect. Things happen. Sometimes it's injury, sometimes it's the situation, sometimes it's talent. Suggesting Willits is no better than Chris Aguila is damning with feint praise. Of course he's better than Aguila. Only time will tell if he's a little better or alot better, I'll give you that. But in my mind, there is so little to lose and so much to gain, if presented with the chance, a team like the Marlins has to leap at it.

 

At $350k it doesn't get in the way of signing a Baldelli if the opportunity arises, it simply means Borchard or Ross is traded or DFA'd.

 

Maybe Beinfest will bring home the bacon (Baldelli) or maybe he'll find someone besides the kids in LA or KC or wherever, but they are out there and I have confidence he'll find them.

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Well, that's not entirely false, but rather based on a false premise.

 

There's plenty wrong with going with a 26 year old retread as your "solution" as a small market team. Even the major league minimum, to a skin-flint owner, adds up when you have comings and goings of guaranteed contracts.

 

For every Dan Uggla, there's a plethora of Luke Haggerty's. Teams generally don't bury talent behind misbegotten free-agent signings, and even more rare are players who are both highly thought of and also producing at a high level that are cast aside.

 

Production and talent are only as good as the interpreter, even last season, we very precariously walked the line as our two greatest offseason victories (the Red Sox trade and the Uggla rule V pick) were the antithesis of each other. Ramirez and Sanchez were, for different reasons, damaged goods who weren't "producing." Hanley's motivation and ability were in question as his numbers continually declined, and Sanchez' health was a real concern as he had serious nerve damage. Conversely, Uggla was a guy who was viewed as producing well above his ceiling at an age too old for his level. Other moves we made in the same offseason didn't work as well (Delgado, Castillo, Holdzkolm/Wellemyer), and all had the differing philosophy.

 

But, back to the point...teams can and should throw $400K on players recklessly, but we can't (that's not to say we shouldn't). When we squeeze a dollar as tightly as we do, every one needs to be maximized. Bringing in a collection of flawed players to try to plug the outfield could cost us (in comings and goings and keepings for backup numbers) in excess of $1.5 million (two at the minimum plus two or three coming/going). Baldelli's contract calls for him to make half of that given his inability to reach performance bonuses this season.

 

Continually digging for gold when we're finally given the ability to slightly spend money is not the most effective solution.

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