July 5, 200717 yr Count me among the fans of the 75 Reds as well. That was a crazy talented team. I don't like how they are diluting the HOF with 75 Reds, but they were solid for quite some time. Morgan, Bench, Perez, Sparky, ?
July 5, 200717 yr Count me among the fans of the 75 Reds as well. That was a crazy talented team. I don't like how they are diluting the HOF with 75 Reds, but they were solid for quite some time. Morgan, Bench, Perez, Sparky, ? That was actually a knock against Tony Perez. Apparently, you saw through my clever guise. :mischief
July 5, 200717 yr No argument from me, Perez is definitely a weak HOFer. From my perspective, you can't invite Perez then leave contemporaries like Parker and Dawson and Rice on the outside looking in. IMHO, they all had better careers.
July 5, 200717 yr Agreed again. Cobra, Rice, and Dawson are more deserving. I'm not a big Dawson 4 HOF supporter though. If we want to start a discussion on people not in the HOF though, for me, the discussion starts with Marvin Miller. Talk about revolutionizing the game. He ay not get in because he is too 'controversial' but it's a damn shame. To me he is a no-brainer.  If he and George Steinbrenner don't get in to the HOF it will an injustice.
July 6, 200717 yr Agreed again. Cobra, Rice, and Dawson are more deserving. I'm not a big Dawson 4 HOF supporter though. If we want to start a discussion on people not in the HOF though, for me, the discussion starts with Marvin Miller. Talk about revolutionizing the game. He ay not get in because he is too 'controversial' but it's a damn shame. To me he is a no-brainer.  If he and George Steinbrenner don't get in to the HOF it will an injustice. Since you mention Miller, what's your stance on Curt Flood?  He was to "the player" what Jackie Robinson was to black players. He gave up the possibilty of going down as the greatest defensive centerfielder of all-time to fight the reserve clause.  I'm very iffy on Flood.
July 6, 200717 yr I don't think Flood should be in the hall. That gets in to too much gray area as to what a player is being voted in for. I think being an 'ambassador to the game' (Robinson, Ripken, etc.) should be recognized on a player's plaque but shouldn't trump on field credentials as to a player's merits. Not saying that a case couldn't be made for his induction but I don't think he should be. I have a huge ammount of respect for what Flood did though and he as a man. He's a remarkable person. I mean how talented is a guy who can play a professional sport at such a high level and then in his off-season go overseas and paint? If you're interested in some very good baseball reading I have to recommend A Well Paid Slave by Brad Snyder.
July 6, 200717 yr Can you guys believe next year will be their 100th anniversary since winning the WS in 1908?!?! That's just unreal to me. I mean, die hard Cubs fans have lived and died and have not seen their team win a WS. That's just sad. Almost three generations have suffered. But then again, you have to be a masochist to root for the Cubs. :lol
July 6, 200717 yr Count me among the fans of the 75 Reds as well. That was a crazy talented team. I don't like how they are diluting the HOF with 75 Reds, but they were solid for quite some time. Morgan, Bench, Perez, Sparky, ? Pete Rose , George Foster, Ken Griffey and Dave Concepcion who was the premier hitting SS of his era BTW this lineup in 1976 had 6 hitters bat over .300. Bench, Perez and Concepcion were below.300 and Concepcion batted .281
July 6, 200717 yr Count me among the fans of the 75 Reds as well. That was a crazy talented team. I don't like how they are diluting the HOF with 75 Reds, but they were solid for quite some time. Morgan, Bench, Perez, Sparky, ? Pete Rose , George Foster, Ken Griffey and Dave Concepcion who was the premier hitting SS of his era BTW this lineup in 1976 had 6 hitters bat over .300. Bench, Perez and Concepcion were below.300 and Concepcion batted .281Â I'll give you Pete Rose in the hall of fame for sure. The other three guys, while good players, have no place in the hall. Concepcion had a .357 slugging percentage. Let that rattle around in your brain for a while and then let me know why he deserves to get in. Â I'd argue from that team Rose, Morgan, and Bench are the only people who should be in the Hall of Fame.
July 6, 200717 yr Tony Perez was an excellent 1st baseman and one the best RBI man ever. He was a real star in his days
July 6, 200717 yr I believe Rice and Parker are HOFers. I hate todays writers who only look at numbers without looking at eras of baseball
July 6, 200717 yr Averaged 96 rbi per 162 games, which is bested by Johnny Bench and George Foster. So, giving you the benefit of the doubt, he was the 3rd best RBI man in the league, assuming everyone in the league sucked but the Reds.  And how much of his RBI came from batting behind Joe Morgan and his like .470 OBP in 1975 and career .390 OBP? Putting an above average power hitter (Which Perez probably was) in front of a guy who gets on base at a .460 clip and he can bunt his way to 100 rbi.  And Jim Rice and Dave Parker probably aren't HOF either. You can use OPS+ and see how much better they were than their peers, and they had a 128 and 121 mark, respectively. Nice, but in Rice's case he wasn't dominant for long enough and Parker had the longevity, but wasn't anywhere near as dominant as Rice. For reference, Troy Glaus has a 121 OPS+ without any real decline phase, and Moises Alou has a 128 OPS+. Neither of them are hall of famers. Neither are Parker and Rice.
July 6, 200717 yr Rice will get in eventually especially when guy's like the aforementioned Tony Perez and Orlando Cepeda eventually got in. Top 5 MVP voting 6 times, 1 win 3-time HR King .298 career average (Cal Ripken, Ryne Sandberg in rear view mirror) One of the best players in the AL for over a decade 3-straight 200 hit/35 HR seasons 8 times in the top 10 in league slugging / 5 of those in the top 2 2,400+ H, 382 HR, 1,450+ RBI in the pre-steroid era. No question, Rice is a HOFer.
July 6, 200717 yr Jim Rice is a borderline HOFer because yes, he dominated for a while, and no, he didn't last quite long enough to put up the same career numbers as other people. He is the definition of borderline.
July 6, 200717 yr I had the opportunity of seeing The 1975 Reds, Jim Rice and Dave Parker while growing up. There is no reason for Jim Rice to be excluded from the HOF. He has the body of work to merit it. Parker for about 5 years was the best player in the NL if not the majors. Parker had problems with cocaine and the same as Jim Rice was surly in reference to the media. If Jim Rice would have been open to the media we wouldn't be having this discussion
July 6, 200717 yr From '75 - '86, Rice was one of the best players in the game. That stands for something. When you are an elite player for over a decade it should mean a lot.  On Bill James' HOF monitor for batting he has a 146.5 ratings. Per James, anything 130 and up makes you a 'virtual cinch'. His 146.5 rating ranks him 82nd all-time.  Guys like Gary Carter, Robin Yount, and Ralph Kiner are below him and are all in the Hall. Rice is not borderline. He should be in.
July 6, 200717 yr Jim Rice played 15 years was an all-star 8 times. He was a power hitter who also hit for average career batting average of .298 career slugging .502. He has better numbers than Al Kaline and Carl Yaztremski
July 6, 200717 yr 2,400+ H 350+ HR Club Ranked in order on the all-time HR List Hall of Famers  Henry Aaron Babe Ruth Frank Robinson Reggie Jackson Mickey Mantle Jimmie Foxx Ted Williams Ernie Banks Mel Ott Eddie Murray ---500 HR Mark---- Lou Gehrig Stan Musial Dave Winfield Carl Yastrzemski Cal Ripken Jr. Billy Williams Al Kaline Tony Perez Likely Hall of Famers Barry Bonds Ken Griffey Jr. Rafael Palmeiro Gary Sheffield Not in Hall of Fame Andre Dawson Dwight Evans Harold Baines Jim Rice Has 350+ HR, Near 2,400 Hits Sammy Sosa (2373) (Likely HOFer) Eddie Mathews (2315) (HOFer) Frank Thomas (2328) (Likely HOFer) Jeff Bagwell (2314) (Likely HOFer) Andres Galarraga (2333) Orlando Cepeda (2351) (HOFer) Chili Davis (2380)
July 6, 200717 yr Career WARP3: Â Dave Parker: 86.3 (2466 games) Dwight Evans: 119.1 (2606 games) Jim Rice: 89.2 (2089 games) Andre Dawson 109.5 (2627)Â Â If we are making room for people who don't deserve it, why not Dewey? Dude had a .370 career OBP (!!!!) and a .470 SLG to go with 7 gold gloves. Â If you are going to make the "media hated him" argument, you'd better throw your support behind Albert Belle. Â Career WARP3: Albert Belle 90.6 (1539 games)Â Thats f***ing sick. Like, no lie. Â Career EqA:.304Â OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGÂ Albert Belle: Not a hall of famer... Thats sad.
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