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Orange Bowl to Fish Bowl


PeteU
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(I posted this on an another forum related to ballparks, but I figured with the recent news it would be especially relevant to this board. I doubt this will happen--they will probably certainly tear down the OB and start from scratch, but I think it's somewhat interesting to think what if they incorporated some of the design into the new ballpark.)

 

 

 

 

(Ignore the yellow lines, those were added by somebody else later)

 

I utilized a seating diagram of the Orange Bowl and transformed it into a baseball-only stadium. And I decided one of the best ideas is to incorporate part of the Orange Bowl grandstand into the new ballpark itself, instead of just leveling the place and starting from scratch. The purpose of this would be two-fold: First, it would preserve a famous and historic sports venue which holds a lot of sentimentality in Miamians hearts. Second, it would cut down on construction costs in that not all of the ballpark would need to be built from the ground.

 

So what I did was take the lower deck of the South sideline seats, as well as the West endzone, and transformed it into the first and third baselines. The entire current upper deck and north sideline seats would all be demolished. I then added a new second club level deck with luxury boxes, and a third upper deck which stretches down the first and third base lines. I added some field box seats and dugouts, and a new section of lower deck seats in the left field corner and stretching from the left field foul pole to deep left center field.

 

The portion of the grandstand preserved from the Orange Bowl would still need some significant renovations under this plan. It would require new seats (all Marlins teal, by the way), some needing to be angled a little bit to be more baseball than football oriented. New concession areas behind the stands would be needed, as well as new plumbing and probably a few more bathrooms. The player's clubhouses would also likely need to be rehabbed.

 

I decided to keep the original field dimensions from Dolphin Stadium. I like how it plays as a pitcher's park and it doesn't feel like an easy bandbox. The famed Bermuda Triangle in deep left center would be retained. I also decided to keep the 25 foot high Teal Tower in left field, which would again serve as the out of town scoreboard.

 

Additionally, I decided to keep what I call the "Alex Gonzalez Corner" at the left field foul pole. (I call it the "Alex Gonzalez Corner" after former Marlins shortstop Alex Gonzalez, who hit a home run in the 12th inning of Game 4 of the 2003 World Series. The homerun was not a high arching shot, but rather a sharp line drive that hugged the third base line and eeked over the fence at the left field corner). The Gonzalez Corner features an eight foot high wall starting from the left field line and going out approximately 30-35 feet until it hits the Teal Tower and goes up to 25 feet. This allows for a couple of sneak home runs to be hit, much like Gonzalez's 2003 shot.

 

I put the bullpens behind the right field wall. I deliberated with putting them along the foul lines like at Dolphin Stadium, but I personally like the idea of having bullpens in the outfield. The orange area surrounding the bullpens is the picnic area, which would have picnic tables and planted palm trees for scenery. The blue circle is a hot-tub area. I know, sort of gimmicky, but the Dolphin Stadium picnic area features a hot tub area, so I might as well keep up with the tradition.

 

The gray area behind the center field fence serves two purposes. First, it is the batter's eye for vision of the pitches. Secondly, it would be a batter's eye restaraunt, much like what is found at Tropicana Field, U.S. Cellular Field, Wrigley Field, and the New Yankee Stadium. You gotta keep the big-wigs happy, I guess.

 

I kept the plans very linear at as much 90 degree angle intersections as possible. I did this for the retractable roof. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the retractable roof, but it's been said to be a necessity for a new Marlins ballpark, so if it has to be there, it has to be there. I don't know if the roof would "collect" behind either the third base line or the first base line grandstands. The only thing I wanted to make sure of was that the area behind the right field fence can be made open when the roof is open--I did this because that area (the current East endzone of the Orange Bowl) features a great view of the skyscrapers of Downtown Miami.

 

My only criticisms of my own proposal are that there seems to be a lot of foul space along the first base line. I considered putting the bullpens there, but in the end I put them behind the right field fence. But a lot of foul space would be consistent with making it a pitcher's park, so it's not that bad an idea. Another problem I came across is that due to the curvature of the old football grandstand, the seats along the first base line are inevitably further away from the action than those along the third base line. I considered ommitting the South sideline seats entirely from the plan, but I wanted to save as much of the old stadium as possible.

 

Anyways, that's my plan. Feel free to offer any criticism or critque you see fit. This is all a work in progress, and I'll be happy to incorporate input anyone might want to offer and revise my plan. Who knows, I might just submit this to Marlins ownership....Anyways, enjoy!

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Guest iFesta Touch

1) Very bad sightlines (look at the weird angles behind home)

2) The OB structure is almost 80 years old

3) It looks like a football stadium in ballpark drag

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1) Very bad sightlines (look at the weird angles behind home)

2) The OB structure is almost 80 years old

3) It looks like a football stadium in ballpark drag

 

 

Well, I'm not a professional architect, just a guy with a computer and some editing tools. As for the sightlines, seats can always be angled at certain ways to make them more baseball friendly--they actually did this at Oriole Park at Camden Yards after a couple of seasons when the seats down the third base lines faced the outfield instead of home plate.

 

As for the age of the Orange Bowl, only the lower deck would be saved. The upper and club decks would both be brand new, as would be the "casing" around the park. Plus the sections that would be saved would be gutted and updated to modern standards.

 

The point is moot, anyways. I doubt they'll save any part of the Orange Bowl. Although it would be cool if they did, and a great nod to Miami sports history. The Boston University football stadium contains a part of the Boston Braves Field old grandstand, and several other modern stadiums have incorporated old parts of prior stadiums into the current stadium.

 

Again, I'm no professional by any means.

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Pretty cool IMO it reminds me of Wrigley with all the apartments across the stadium.

 

 

I am from Chicago and Wrigley is falling apart. A few years ago they had to put netting under the upperdeck to catch the chucks of concrete breaking off. They NEED to rip it down and rebuild it, moderize it. People just go there for the beer. Not sure of the condition of the Orange Bowl since I have never been there but sometimes OLD need to come down for NEW. The Wrigley idea is a good one though, if they could mimic it.

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I am from Chicago and Wrigley is falling apart. A few years ago they had to put netting under the upperdeck to catch the chucks of concrete breaking off. They NEED to rip it down and rebuild it, moderize it. People just go there for the beer. Not sure of the condition of the Orange Bowl since I have never been there but sometimes OLD need to come down for NEW. The Wrigley idea is a good one though, if they could mimic it.

Agreed. By placing the stadium in a section of the city that will have bars, restaurants, and public transportation. The Wrigley "experience" isn't the ballpark. The ballpark is a dump. Just like Fenway. You couldn't get 35,000 fans per game just to see a nice ballpark, you get used to seeing the same thing every time. The experience is the packed subways with Cubs and Red Sox hats everywhere, the packed bars with Cubs and Red Sox hats everywhere, and the busy side streets with Cubs and Red Sox hats everywhere. NONE of this will be possible at OB. And what a darned shame that is. You'd think $500 million could still buy something useful. The Marlins are spending half their net worth on this? Please.

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Agreed. By placing the stadium in a section of the city that will have bars, restaurants, and public transportation. The Wrigley "experience" isn't the ballpark. The ballpark is a dump. Just like Fenway. You couldn't get 35,000 fans per game just to see a nice ballpark, you get used to seeing the same thing every time. The experience is the packed subways with Cubs and Red Sox hats everywhere, the packed bars with Cubs and Red Sox hats everywhere, and the busy side streets with Cubs and Red Sox hats everywhere. NONE of this will be possible at OB. And what a darned shame that is. You'd think $500 million could still buy something useful. The Marlins are spending half their net worth on this? Please.

 

Have you been to Citizen's Bank Park recently? That stadium isn't located in a place with "bars," "restaurants," or adequate public transportation (one line in and from what I saw, most people drove to the stadium). Yet, put the Phillies in a pennant race and you can't get tickets to a game. Same holds true for Turner Field (except for the tickets in a pennant race, those Braves fans are worse than Marlins fans). That park is located in roughly the same type of proximity to downtown Atlanta as the OB is to downtown Miami. Plus, the area around Shea Stadium (and the new Chase Field) is just so full of bars and restaurants at night, that it's a happening place . . . NOT! Same holds true for parks in Washington, Los Angeles, Anaheim, and to a lesser degree Pittsburgh. A park is built where you have the land available to make it feasible. What? South Florida is so "special" that you need to have it in an exact location or no one will show up? The product drives the attendance, not the location. If "location" were key, then the Panthers would be sold out every night because they're located "in the center of the South Florida population" - beloved Broward County . . . and most of their fans live in Broward County . . . yada, yada, yada. But they're not and they have one of the worst attendance marks in the NHL (25 out of 30 teams!). As I said before, have the Marlins in a playoff race for three years straight and watch attendance increase. Do you think that there will be 15,000 people there for an NLCS game at a new park at the OB? C'mon, give me a break! But on the flip side, show me a Marlins team that is 50-73 and you'll have the same amount of people at the park if the stadium were at the Orange Bowl, Government Center, or next door to the Bank Atlantic Center.

 

You seem to have this "crush" on the Gov't Center site (a site that a senior Miami-Dade County Zoning Official told me was next to impossible to fit a ballpark on . . . but then again, what would he know!). Finally, where are the "bars" and "restaurants" of Gov't Center? They're not there NOW, so you wouldn't be building a park where the bars and restaurants are!

 

Puhlease!

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  • 3 weeks later...

(I posted this on an another forum related to ballparks, but I figured with the recent news it would be especially relevant to this board. I doubt this will happen--they will probably certainly tear down the OB and start from scratch, but I think it's somewhat interesting to think what if they incorporated some of the design into the new ballpark.)

 

 

 

 

(Ignore the yellow lines, those were added by somebody else later)

 

I utilized a seating diagram of the Orange Bowl and transformed it into a baseball-only stadium. And I decided one of the best ideas is to incorporate part of the Orange Bowl grandstand into the new ballpark itself, instead of just leveling the place and starting from scratch. The purpose of this would be two-fold: First, it would preserve a famous and historic sports venue which holds a lot of sentimentality in Miamians hearts. Second, it would cut down on construction costs in that not all of the ballpark would need to be built from the ground.

 

So what I did was take the lower deck of the South sideline seats, as well as the West endzone, and transformed it into the first and third baselines. The entire current upper deck and north sideline seats would all be demolished. I then added a new second club level deck with luxury boxes, and a third upper deck which stretches down the first and third base lines. I added some field box seats and dugouts, and a new section of lower deck seats in the left field corner and stretching from the left field foul pole to deep left center field.

 

The portion of the grandstand preserved from the Orange Bowl would still need some significant renovations under this plan. It would require new seats (all Marlins teal, by the way), some needing to be angled a little bit to be more baseball than football oriented. New concession areas behind the stands would be needed, as well as new plumbing and probably a few more bathrooms. The player's clubhouses would also likely need to be rehabbed.

 

I decided to keep the original field dimensions from Dolphin Stadium. I like how it plays as a pitcher's park and it doesn't feel like an easy bandbox. The famed Bermuda Triangle in deep left center would be retained. I also decided to keep the 25 foot high Teal Tower in left field, which would again serve as the out of town scoreboard.

 

Additionally, I decided to keep what I call the "Alex Gonzalez Corner" at the left field foul pole. (I call it the "Alex Gonzalez Corner" after former Marlins shortstop Alex Gonzalez, who hit a home run in the 12th inning of Game 4 of the 2003 World Series. The homerun was not a high arching shot, but rather a sharp line drive that hugged the third base line and eeked over the fence at the left field corner). The Gonzalez Corner features an eight foot high wall starting from the left field line and going out approximately 30-35 feet until it hits the Teal Tower and goes up to 25 feet. This allows for a couple of sneak home runs to be hit, much like Gonzalez's 2003 shot.

 

I put the bullpens behind the right field wall. I deliberated with putting them along the foul lines like at Dolphin Stadium, but I personally like the idea of having bullpens in the outfield. The orange area surrounding the bullpens is the picnic area, which would have picnic tables and planted palm trees for scenery. The blue circle is a hot-tub area. I know, sort of gimmicky, but the Dolphin Stadium picnic area features a hot tub area, so I might as well keep up with the tradition.

 

The gray area behind the center field fence serves two purposes. First, it is the batter's eye for vision of the pitches. Secondly, it would be a batter's eye restaraunt, much like what is found at Tropicana Field, U.S. Cellular Field, Wrigley Field, and the New Yankee Stadium. You gotta keep the big-wigs happy, I guess.

 

I kept the plans very linear at as much 90 degree angle intersections as possible. I did this for the retractable roof. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the retractable roof, but it's been said to be a necessity for a new Marlins ballpark, so if it has to be there, it has to be there. I don't know if the roof would "collect" behind either the third base line or the first base line grandstands. The only thing I wanted to make sure of was that the area behind the right field fence can be made open when the roof is open--I did this because that area (the current East endzone of the Orange Bowl) features a great view of the skyscrapers of Downtown Miami.

 

My only criticisms of my own proposal are that there seems to be a lot of foul space along the first base line. I considered putting the bullpens there, but in the end I put them behind the right field fence. But a lot of foul space would be consistent with making it a pitcher's park, so it's not that bad an idea. Another problem I came across is that due to the curvature of the old football grandstand, the seats along the first base line are inevitably further away from the action than those along the third base line. I considered ommitting the South sideline seats entirely from the plan, but I wanted to save as much of the old stadium as possible.

 

Anyways, that's my plan. Feel free to offer any criticism or critque you see fit. This is all a work in progress, and I'll be happy to incorporate input anyone might want to offer and revise my plan. Who knows, I might just submit this to Marlins ownership....Anyways, enjoy!

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The Orange Bowl only meant something to me as a football stadium. Now that is over so JUST BLOW THE DAMN PLACE UP and build something we can all be proud of. If you want to remember the OB, then save money and don't put bathrooms in the new stadium. I will be out of town on the 10th, but I want that vote to go through and finally, finally, guarantee baseball for a long time.

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The only part of the stadium that would make any sense to re-use would be part of the lower bowl grandstands being re-used as the outfield bleachers. But the cost involved in working around something that is already there would probably outweigh the benefits, what I would like to see is take PNC park in Pittsburgh or "The Cit" in Philly copy it directly, put a roof on it and slap it down in little havanna, done and done. We already have enough people that can't let go of the past (new yorkers that live here for 30 years and still talk about "home" like they just left) we don't need any more. Blow it up, start fresh and try to come up with a few original ideas.

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