freedrinks23

Season ticket figures is undoubtedly correct. But only on face value. Season ticket sales for 2011 dropped from those of 2010. Reason is because folks bought the package for 2010 to get that preferred seating for 2012 and then after getting it dropped their package for 2011. That fact comes from the front office. Interesting, that's a good point. So this leads me to believe that the poster that said we will rank around 20th after the new ball park smell wears off is most likely very close to being correct. Definitely agree with this. I just hope 20th is enough to keep the team in South Florida when the next round of new ballparks comes in 25-30 years time.

What I have been hearing from folks is the accessability issue. Not so much in getting there as in leaving there. It's one of the biggest reasons a high majority of those people are saying that 2012 will be their last year of season tickets, or any ticket plan. This will certainly be true for some people (probably Palm Beach County fans), overall it's a better location. The few season ticket holders lost will be more than made up for by the season ticket holders gained. In fact, unless Samson is lying, they already have more season ticket holders for 2012 than 2011. "While the team does not release season ticket figures, Samson said that sales for next year have already outpaced those of 2011." http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/30/2142557_p2/florida-marlins-have-one-eye-on.html I also agree that this was the only location it was going, because the land was there. I still think it's shortsighted though. A part of me wishes the Hurricanes never left, cuz then maybe we could've gotten the Miami Arena site for the new ballpark. But the other part of my says without the Canes leaving, the Marlins may have left S. Florida. Beggars can't be choosers, I suppose. Nonetheless, I fear the new park failing because it's not downtown.

I don't see how it's a terrible location; it's just outside downtown and a 10 minute drive from the AAA. That makes it a better location than Sun Life, no doubt. It's without question a big improvement. But it's still not good enough to draw in fans during the regular season. There's nothing around the stadium, no one works within walking distance and there's no public transit. Downtown would've ensured a regular stream of fans because of the easy access for thousands of downtown office workers and nearby nightlife draw for others. Orange Bowl is 2 miles from downtown. I wouldn't call that "just outside," but regardless of what it's called, no one is walking that 2 miles from their office to the stadium, or from the stadium to the nightlife post-game. And that's the whole problem.

Miami is an event city anyways. The heat couldnt sell out with lebron wade and bosh. And mass transit goes to the arena. And no rainouts. Good food. Nightlife nearby. All of those goodies. Btw I wish the new marlins park would have been built next to it. Would have looked amazing. The Heat sold out the whole year. Maybe the arena wasn't 100% full during the regular season, but it was sold out. But I agree, stadium should've been built downtown. Orange Bowl site is terrible. The stadium will look great, and the retractable roof with A/C will be nice and make fans more comfortable. That'll bring fans to get good crowds for one season. After that, we'll have the same old problem. I never bought the "rain prevents us from getting fans!" argument. The reason for lack of fans is (1) terrible location, and (2) terrible stadium. We've solved #2 with the new stadium, but #1 is still a major issue, and 10 years from now all the talk will be how the Marlins can't get fans no matter where they play. Which will be BS. If it were downtown they'd get good crowds consistently for years.

I'm a little late on the uptick here but I'm totally excited about the revival of a downtown site. Let's make this happen. The idea of delay for site shifting is a joke considering idiot Braman's lawsuit means delays at OB too. Everyone knows the OB site is terrible, so why on earth we aren't pouncing on Straub's offer is beyond me. As for it costing more, wasn't it shown that OB would be more expensive?

Over the course of a baseball season, and the attraction of S. Florida as a tourist destination, many baseball fans make the trip to see their team play here because it is S. Florida so they plan their trip accordingly. Maybe they would have come anyway, or maybe they say, "hey, we are playing down there, lets make a few days out of it". So, if we can be competitive, we can make it on the national telecasts as well. Then the network can lead off, like they always do, with shots of the hotels, the beaches, the skimpy bathing suits etc. Hell, I live here and I want to go to S. Beach when I see that. What do they show us from Pittsburgh to make us want to take a trip there? The impact and long term marketing is much more than the book fair and art basel. Again, I think they all belong here, but the issue is with Putney making a point about measuring the relative value. I agree with your points, baseball is more valuable because it attracts more people, and I agree that seeing the bikini bods before the game makes me want to stop watching and just head to the beach. I do think Putney makes some very valid arguments, most notably the lack of public transportation and the pathetic potential for surrounding development of bars and restaurants at the OB site. I strongly disagree with Putney however on the crap about the stadium "only benefiting a private enterprise." Subsidies for corporations like Burger King to keep them in Miami are things that mostly, but not only, benefit private enterprise. I'm all for subsidizing corporations to keep jobs here. Every city does it (New York City basically built Goldman Sachs, one of the wealthiest companies on the planet, its own office building, as did Philadelphia for Comcast, another money-printing machine). But subsidizing baseball actually benefits the public more, since hopefully 25,000 S. Florida citizens will be at the game (as opposed to what, 2000 BK employees?), spending money on tickets, concessions, parking, etc. How a city can justify subsidizing billion-dollar corporations but not a baseball team that its citizens actually pay to see? It's not like South Floridians go to BK's headquarters and watch its accountants play with their calculators.

I am from Chicago and Wrigley is falling apart. A few years ago they had to put netting under the upperdeck to catch the chucks of concrete breaking off. They NEED to rip it down and rebuild it, moderize it. People just go there for the beer. Not sure of the condition of the Orange Bowl since I have never been there but sometimes OLD need to come down for NEW. The Wrigley idea is a good one though, if they could mimic it. Agreed. By placing the stadium in a section of the city that will have bars, restaurants, and public transportation. The Wrigley "experience" isn't the ballpark. The ballpark is a dump. Just like Fenway. You couldn't get 35,000 fans per game just to see a nice ballpark, you get used to seeing the same thing every time. The experience is the packed subways with Cubs and Red Sox hats everywhere, the packed bars with Cubs and Red Sox hats everywhere, and the busy side streets with Cubs and Red Sox hats everywhere. NONE of this will be possible at OB. And what a darned shame that is. You'd think $500 million could still buy something useful. The Marlins are spending half their net worth on this? Please.

Tropicana Field only has around 7500 parking spots on-site and it is enough. 5/8th of a mile is close enough to walk. As long as it is real parking and not Jose's front lawn....I have no concerns. But the Devil Rays have no fans. Isn't the point of building a new stadium to draw 25 to 30K fans per game? I would say the average car will bring 2.5 people to the game. 6000 * 2.5 = 15,000 fans. The 250 VIP spots are probably 1.5 people per car, 250 * 1.5 = 375 fans. Where do the other 10,000 to 15,000 fans park? Everything about the OB site is just god awful. It has horrendous access from Broward and Palm Beach, there's nothing to do in the area and little possibility for economic development, there are very few office buildings, and it's MORE EXPENSIVE. And apparently there isn't adequate parking. OB site gets worse and worse every time I think about it. Yes I'd prefer OB to San Antonio, but I don't think that choice really exists, as the only negative to downtown was that it supposedly cost more. Well, it costs less. Why can't we switch to downtown where the team will actually be successful?

This is an easy one to address: 1. First of all I would argue with your first point, it is not more inconvenient to the fan base. It is more inconvenient to part of the fan base and much more convenient to fans who up until now had no way to get to games (living south of Flagler all the way to the keys). In this market with low interest rates, in an industry that is growing exponentially and revenue-sharing (in the generic sense, I'm talking all the MLB revenue related sources - tv, electronic, merchandising, etc. + the other sources often debated here) hitting new heights, whole new revenue sources coming on line for the franchise, advertising, naming rights, concessions, etc., in a new stadium with no rent, I dont really see why the Marlins will have any problem finding financing. They sure aren't loaning on real estate, they might as well put their money together somewhere and frankly this isn't even a big loan, this isn't even a medium-sized loan these days. This is a walk in the park. They'll pay the loan down quicker. They'll have psotive cashflow immediately. This is a dream deal. 2. the reason downtown is cheaper has already been stated. The chiller plant downtown. Alot of people don't realize it but the city runs this huge plant that air conditions most of the buildings downtown. Everything is underground. All the downtown site had to do was link in. One of the reasons it could fit in such a compact location. The system does not extend past 95 so in order to cool the stadium for games with the roof closed you'll need your own on-premise chillers. Hence the cost increase. They are big, and expensive. I hope you're right about the financing. It seems hard for me to believe they could pay back that kind of loan without keeping payroll at the zilch level. Regardind downtown being cheaper, yes I read why it's cheaper. My WTF comment was in reference to why on earth are we still insisting on OB if downtown is cheaper! The whole argument for going to OB over downtown on this forum has been that OB would be cheaper. Well, it's not. Thsi removes the one and only theoretical benefit of OB. So now we're not just building on a site that's less desirable, but we're also paying more money for it. IT MAKES NO SENSE! ugh.

I hate to add negative sentiments to an otherwise very positive thread. But I can only think of 2 things as I read through this deal 1) The Marlins are expected to put up half their net worth for a stadium in a crap area that is less convenient to their fan base than the already horribly inconvenient Dolphin Stadium? When I said before that putting up half your net worth for a dubious project is insane, the responses here were that it was spread over 30 years because of rent. Well, that's no longer the case. How on earth can they afford this? The financing issue is very shaky in my humble opinion. In this credit market, there ain't no bank crazy enough to float this kind of loan. Call me a skeptic. 2) Downtown is cheaper. W. T. F.

They're not waiting for reasons totally unrelated to the Marlins. Leaving it empty and erect requires around the clock security and a huge liability issue. I know what is motivating the City to demolish the OB quickly, but I'm not at liberty to discuss it here. Pretty weak ...if you make a statement like that you could at least say positive or negative towards the Marlins without giving away specifics Agreed. Some people have a very high sense of self-importance and need an ego-feed to reinforce this. It's the "nah nah nah i know more than you do" elementary school playground mentality.

Ticket prices are likely to be higher than they currently are at DS. Agreed. If the Marlins are putting up $210 million, they are going to raise ticket prices a lot, as any responsible business would do. And the crowds won't be coming. OB site is a sham.

I doubt MLB comes back here at all. It's not South Florida has actually supported the team. I can't understand why most are opposed to seeing them moved. As a whole South Florida residents just watch them on Tv anyways. What's the difference where the broadcasts originate? I agree that MLB wouldn't come back, at least not for 30 years like in washington. I'm pretty sure the team wouldn't be on tv if they moved, wouldn't the devil rays (ick) become the local tv team?

As Retro_Marlins said, MLB is right on, this site is just god-awful. I really can't understand everyone saying "let this team contract or leave and we'll get an owner that is actually committed." Just ridiculous. The owners ARE committed, but committed to doing this thing right. Building at OB is a guaranteed failure. The city/county are being blatantly irresponsible trying to throw money at a doomed project. When you're talking hundreds of millions of dollars, do it right, build it downtown where it will succeed.

Yes it is correct that the original plan had a parking garage and the revenue from the garage went to service the debt on the bonds issued for its construction. But once the parking garage debt service was retired revenue sharing kicked in, which could mean millions annually to the Marlins over the life of the lease. So in effect you're both right, but not taking into account the significant revenue surplus generated when prorated annually from the garage. It's not inconceivable that over the term of the lease both the city and the Marlins could net an average of $3 million a year from the garage. That's a big chunk of change. Thanks for the details. I agree that's it's a big chunk of change. This is more evidence that it's absurd to think the Marlins have some ethical obligation to keep their OB commitment from 3 years ago when a) the costs have gone up, b) there is no state contribution, and c) there's no potential for future parking revenue. It's a completely different deal, the Marlins aren't "backing out" of any existing commitment by reducing their contribution. They're only being prudent given the poor attendance they expect from such a terrible site.