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Stadium Meeting Set


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No vote today. I guess the idea of finalizing the details in a 24 hour period was too optimistic. Hopefully this delay is just what they say it is, a chance to iron out the fine points of the agreement, and isn't a sign of trouble in anyway.

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...undup_1220.html

 

Stadium meeting set for Jan. 10

Click-2-Listen

By CHARLES ELMORE

 

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

 

Thursday, December 20, 2007

 

The Marlins will negotiate through the holidays with Miami-Dade County and the city of Miami on a stadium agreement, with the county deferring until Jan. 10 the next public meeting on the deal.

 

The deferral will permit the parties "to finalize negotiations" on a $525 million stadium at the site of the Orange Bowl, Miami-Dade County Commission Chairman Bruno Barreiro said Wednesday. City and county commissions have approved the outlines of a deal.

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No vote today. I guess the idea of finalizing the details in a 24 hour period was too optimistic. Hopefully this delay is just what they say it is, a chance to iron out the fine points of the agreement, and isn't a sign of trouble in anyway.

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...undup_1220.html

 

Stadium meeting set for Jan. 10

Click-2-Listen

By CHARLES ELMORE

 

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

 

Thursday, December 20, 2007

 

The Marlins will negotiate through the holidays with Miami-Dade County and the city of Miami on a stadium agreement, with the county deferring until Jan. 10 the next public meeting on the deal.

 

The deferral will permit the parties "to finalize negotiations" on a $525 million stadium at the site of the Orange Bowl, Miami-Dade County Commission Chairman Bruno Barreiro said Wednesday. City and county commissions have approved the outlines of a deal.

 

That is weird because the resolution before the commission today was for the right to negotiate with the Marlins and Miami, so there still might be a vote today for the right to negotiate.

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If true, sucks

 

just a few more days... no cause for concern. in fact, this is probably a good thing... these negotiations have been moving extremely fast. all sides need to make sure that they do this right.

 

its not like writing a contract for a 500 million dollar baseball stadium is an easy thing to do. we've waited for 8 years, two more weeks isnt gonna kill us.

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If true, sucks

 

just a few more days... no cause for concern. in fact, this is probably a good thing... these negotiations have been moving extremely fast. all sides need to make sure that they do this right.

 

its not like writing a contract for a 500 million dollar baseball stadium is an easy thing to do. we've waited for 8 years, two more weeks isnt gonna kill us.

 

probably not :swoon but maybe

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Guest iFesta Touch

No vote today. I guess the idea of finalizing the details in a 24 hour period was too optimistic. Hopefully this delay is just what they say it is, a chance to iron out the fine points of the agreement, and isn't a sign of trouble in anyway.

 

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/conte...undup_1220.html

 

Stadium meeting set for Jan. 10

Click-2-Listen

By CHARLES ELMORE

 

Palm Beach Post Staff Writer

 

Thursday, December 20, 2007

 

The Marlins will negotiate through the holidays with Miami-Dade County and the city of Miami on a stadium agreement, with the county deferring until Jan. 10 the next public meeting on the deal.

 

The deferral will permit the parties "to finalize negotiations" on a $525 million stadium at the site of the Orange Bowl, Miami-Dade County Commission Chairman Bruno Barreiro said Wednesday. City and county commissions have approved the outlines of a deal.

 

That is weird because the resolution before the commission today was for the right to negotiate with the Marlins and Miami, so there still might be a vote today for the right to negotiate.

 

No, it was to complete the whole thing.

 

Samson went on record saying this in an article on Tuesday.

 

The Tuesday vote gave the right to negotiate.

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My sense is the commissioners steadfastly refused to have another meeting where nothing is presented to them with enough time to actually read and digest it (meaning "...how do I make sure I get that bum cousin of mine a job out of this?")

 

I'm sure negotiations are running longer than anticipated but I think that could have been resolved had there been the gun at the head deadline of today for a vote.

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Here is Sarah Talalay's take from the Sun Sentinel:

 

http://blogs.trb.com/sports/custom/busines...te_no_1350.html

 

Marlins Stadium Update No. 13,502

 

> Posted by Sarah Talalay at 10:02 AM

Although Marlins President David Samson and others had hoped for a vote today by the Miami-Dade County Commission on a ?Baseball Stadium Agreement,? County Commission Chairman Bruno Barreiro has decided to delay the item until the commission?s Jan. 10 meeting.

 

Don?t read anything into the delay: it just means county, city of Miami and Marlins officials are continuing to negotiate the finer points of the agreement commonly referred to as a ?BSA.? Those involved are more optimistic than ever that this will finally be the deal that makes a stadium happen. It?s hard for me to believe I just wrote that ? after all, I?ve been covering this issue ? and countless versions of ballpark plans ? for more than eight years.

 

The basic framework on which the sides are negotiating is a $525 million, 37,000-seat retractable-roof ballpark at the site of the Orange Bowl stadium. The city and county would contribute $370 million from tourist and sports facilities taxes and a general obligation bond county voters approved in 2004 to renovate the Orange Bowl but which commissioners agreed Tuesday to put toward the ballpark project. The Marlins say they will contribute $155 million, which they will privately finance.

 

The deal will be for 30 years and will require the Marlins to cover cost overruns, except in the event that the city or county are responsible for delays. The team will not be able to move until the end of the agreement or whenever the bonds are paid off, whichever is later. If the team is sold during the life of the agreement, the city and county would receive a percentage of the increase in value of the team since the date of the agreement.

 

Yes, the plan is to build at the Orange Bowl because that's the only option available to the team right now. As for whether the team has the money to contribute to the plan, Samson says: ?When we negotiate something we have to be able to stand by what we will negotiate. Obviously you can?t offer something that you don?t think you can do.?

 

If the BSA is approved by both the county and city commissions, then the next few months will be spent creating the final documents that spell out the financing, construction and other elements of the deal. That?s what Samson calls ?turning a 50-page document into a 400-page document.?

 

The plan calls for construction to begin by November 2008 and the ballpark to open by April 2011. The team would be renamed the Miami Marlins by the 2011 season.

 

I know lots of people are upset by a possible name change. Why are you so concerned about it?

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My guess is that things are not quite as simple, cut and dried, as the memo would suggest. Hopefully, it's not going to be a problem, and there's no cause for any one to lose sleep. In the meantime, it sure would be nice to hear something from Loria.

 

Why would you hear from him, except to kill the whole thing. I hope he won't kill the whole thing by Jan 10. Watch for Loria to make some kind of "unacceptable" demand, and kill the project. At least then MLB execs will see it isn't the local politicos but Marlins brass that is responsible for the stadium delays.

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My guess is that things are not quite as simple, cut and dried, as the memo would suggest. Hopefully, it's not going to be a problem, and there's no cause for any one to lose sleep. In the meantime, it sure would be nice to hear something from Loria.

 

Why would you hear from him, except to kill the whole thing. I hope he won't kill the whole thing by Jan 10. Watch for Loria to make some kind of "unacceptable" demand, and kill the project. At least then MLB execs will see it isn't the local politicos but Marlins brass that is responsible for the stadium delays.

 

Give it a break. He's not going to do that.

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My guess is that things are not quite as simple, cut and dried, as the memo would suggest. Hopefully, it's not going to be a problem, and there's no cause for any one to lose sleep. In the meantime, it sure would be nice to hear something from Loria.

 

Why would you hear from him, except to kill the whole thing. I hope he won't kill the whole thing by Jan 10. Watch for Loria to make some kind of "unacceptable" demand, and kill the project. At least then MLB execs will see it isn't the local politicos but Marlins brass that is responsible for the stadium delays.

 

Give it a break. He's not going to do that.

 

I will not believe he intends to keep the team here until I see shovels in the ground at the OB site. Until then I will believe the worst in Jeff Loria, because experience tells me not to believe anything he says.

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My guess is that things are not quite as simple, cut and dried, as the memo would suggest. Hopefully, it's not going to be a problem, and there's no cause for any one to lose sleep. In the meantime, it sure would be nice to hear something from Loria.

 

Why would you hear from him, except to kill the whole thing. I hope he won't kill the whole thing by Jan 10. Watch for Loria to make some kind of "unacceptable" demand, and kill the project. At least then MLB execs will see it isn't the local politicos but Marlins brass that is responsible for the stadium delays.

I'd like to hear him say something that affirms mini-mite's pledge that the team has the money. He can save his long speech for later, after the final BSA is signed. For now, something along the lines of, "I'm very happy that the city, county, and team have come this far in agreeing to the major framework of the BSA. I appreciate all the time and effort by the city council, county council, all their staff, and MLB. I'd like to wish a Happy Holidays and Healthy New Years to all, and I look forward to the day, early next year, when we can all celebrate what we have achieved here. Thank you."

.

.

He is the owner of a private business about to receive millions in public dollars. Some small word would show gratitude. Silence is class-less and ever so slightly concerning.

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.

He is the owner of a private business about to receive millions in public dollars. Some small word would show gratitude. Silence is class-less and ever so slightly concerning.

 

History tells you this man has no regard for the public. He disdains anyone not an "ivy leaguer" like himself.

Those people are all cut out of the same cloth -- a gold lame one at that.

 

Oh don't forget the silver spoons they were born with.

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My guess is that things are not quite as simple, cut and dried, as the memo would suggest. Hopefully, it's not going to be a problem, and there's no cause for any one to lose sleep. In the meantime, it sure would be nice to hear something from Loria.

 

Why would you hear from him, except to kill the whole thing. I hope he won't kill the whole thing by Jan 10. Watch for Loria to make some kind of "unacceptable" demand, and kill the project. At least then MLB execs will see it isn't the local politicos but Marlins brass that is responsible for the stadium delays.

 

May as well blame the local fan base. If we would have been showing the local and state politicians we support baseball here those close votes for the tax rebates probably would have passed and ground would have been broken long ago.

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Guest Night Phantom

My guess is that things are not quite as simple, cut and dried, as the memo would suggest. Hopefully, it's not going to be a problem, and there's no cause for any one to lose sleep. In the meantime, it sure would be nice to hear something from Loria.

 

Why would you hear from him, except to kill the whole thing. I hope he won't kill the whole thing by Jan 10. Watch for Loria to make some kind of "unacceptable" demand, and kill the project. At least then MLB execs will see it isn't the local politicos but Marlins brass that is responsible for the stadium delays.

 

May as well blame the local fan base. If we would have been showing the local and state politicians we support baseball here those close votes for the tax rebates probably would have passed and ground would have been broken long ago.

:lol

 

I like how you think it's that simple

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My guess is that things are not quite as simple, cut and dried, as the memo would suggest. Hopefully, it's not going to be a problem, and there's no cause for any one to lose sleep. In the meantime, it sure would be nice to hear something from Loria.

 

Why would you hear from him, except to kill the whole thing. I hope he won't kill the whole thing by Jan 10. Watch for Loria to make some kind of "unacceptable" demand, and kill the project. At least then MLB execs will see it isn't the local politicos but Marlins brass that is responsible for the stadium delays.

 

May as well blame the local fan base. If we would have been showing the local and state politicians we support baseball here those close votes for the tax rebates probably would have passed and ground would have been broken long ago.

:lol

 

I like how you think it's that simple

 

I don't think it's that simple. I'm just not so self centered as to think as a fan base we don't have something to do with alot of the disappointments in the past. And one or two of those votes were real close. Imagine if we were putting around 30K in the seats. I do believe the deal would have been done.

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My guess is that things are not quite as simple, cut and dried, as the memo would suggest. Hopefully, it's not going to be a problem, and there's no cause for any one to lose sleep. In the meantime, it sure would be nice to hear something from Loria.

 

Why would you hear from him, except to kill the whole thing. I hope he won't kill the whole thing by Jan 10. Watch for Loria to make some kind of "unacceptable" demand, and kill the project. At least then MLB execs will see it isn't the local politicos but Marlins brass that is responsible for the stadium delays.

 

May as well blame the local fan base. If we would have been showing the local and state politicians we support baseball here those close votes for the tax rebates probably would have passed and ground would have been broken long ago.

:lol

 

I like how you think it's that simple

 

I don't think it's that simple. I'm just not so self centered as to think as a fan base we don't have something to do with alot of the disappointments in the past. And one or two of those votes were real close. Imagine if we were putting around 30K in the seats. I do believe the deal would have been done.

And I don't. Because if you recall, different legislators had different takes on this. It was damned if you do and damned if you don't. When the Marlins were not spending money and trying to put a good product on the field, the talk was that why give money for such a team who no one would support anyway. When money was spent to improve the product and there was a rise in attendance, the politicos were saying that if the team can afford to give Delgado $52 mill to play baseball, then they must have plenty of money and do not a $30 mill. dollar rebate. Bob, you and I are different, but given how things have been run for 10 years, even with the 3 years of competitive basball, 30,000 average attendance would not happen in most cities. Really, I do not know why you always want to place most of the blame on the fans. On balance, that is not where is mostly belongs.

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And I don't. Because if you recall, different legislators had different takes on this. It was damned if you do and damned if you don't. When the Marlins were not spending money and trying to put a good product on the field, the talk was that why give money for such a team who no one would support anyway. When money was spent to improve the product and there was a rise in attendance, the politicos were saying that if the team can afford to give Delgado $52 mill to play baseball, then they must have plenty of money and do not a $30 mill. dollar rebate. Bob, you and I are different, but given how things have been run for 10 years, even with the 3 years of competitive basball, 30,000 average attendance would not happen in most cities. Really, I do not know why you always want to place most of the blame on the fans. On balance, that is not where is mostly belongs.

 

I agree, its not the fans fault. The last 2 years the attendance has been particularly bad because of what the public percieves as a cheap a** owner, who is not willing to spend to win. Bottom line, many people will not go unless there is some show of this ownership that he is willing to put a competetive team on the field. 2006 was not what management actually wanted....they stayed competitive despite what I believe are managements best attempts to sabatoge the franchise on the field. They also planned to alienate the fanbase, and that has worked. At the time Loria & Co. were I believe convinced they would not be staying in South Fla, and the master plan was to get out of town.

 

Others here will pooh-pooh that, but it makes more sense than saying we just have to cut payroll. There are ways of cutting and not alienating the fanbase. These people didn't care, they thought they were getting out of town. I actually think Bud Selig thought that at 1st too, and helped and aided them, because I am sure Loria had convinced Selig, that it was all the city/county's fault the stadium hadn't been built. Lo and behold MLB came down here this past summer and Loria's worst nightmare happened, MLB found out the city/county were actually resonable, and Selig came out with his statement about wanting baseball here. That is when Marlins management seems to have been kicked out of stadium discussions, and the whole thing taken over by MLB and a deal worked out between those parties. Loria now has been backed into a corner, and is being told he has to take the deal brokered by MLB & the city. His retaliation ? Cut the payroll as low as he can in order to pay off the increased up-front money he will have to pay.

 

Pooh-pooh it or not, but this makes sense and I think is closer to the truth than Marlins management would ever want us to know.

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And I don't. Because if you recall, different legislators had different takes on this. It was damned if you do and damned if you don't. When the Marlins were not spending money and trying to put a good product on the field, the talk was that why give money for such a team who no one would support anyway. When money was spent to improve the product and there was a rise in attendance, the politicos were saying that if the team can afford to give Delgado $52 mill to play baseball, then they must have plenty of money and do not a $30 mill. dollar rebate. Bob, you and I are different, but given how things have been run for 10 years, even with the 3 years of competitive basball, 30,000 average attendance would not happen in most cities. Really, I do not know why you always want to place most of the blame on the fans. On balance, that is not where is mostly belongs.

 

I agree, its not the fans fault. The last 2 years the attendance has been particularly bad because of what the public percieves as a cheap a** owner, who is not willing to spend to win. Bottom line, many people will not go unless there is some show of this ownership that he is willing to put a competetive team on the field. 2006 was not what management actually wanted....they stayed competitive despite what I believe are managements best attempts to sabatoge the franchise on the field. They also planned to alienate the fanbase, and that has worked. At the time Loria & Co. were I believe convinced they would not be staying in South Fla, and the master plan was to get out of town.

 

Others here will pooh-pooh that, but it makes more sense than saying we just have to cut payroll. There are ways of cutting and not alienating the fanbase. These people didn't care, they thought they were getting out of town. I actually think Bud Selig thought that at 1st too, and helped and aided them, because I am sure Loria had convinced Selig, that it was all the city/county's fault the stadium hadn't been built. Lo and behold MLB came down here this past summer and Loria's worst nightmare happened, MLB found out the city/county were actually resonable, and Selig came out with his statement about wanting baseball here. That is when Marlins management seems to have been kicked out of stadium discussions, and the whole thing taken over by MLB and a deal worked out between those parties. Loria now has been backed into a corner, and is being told he has to take the deal brokered by MLB & the city. His retaliation ? Cut the payroll as low as he can in order to pay off the increased up-front money he will have to pay.

 

Pooh-pooh it or not, but this makes sense and I think is closer to the truth than Marlins management would ever want us to know.

 

This reminds me of this guy on the Marlins ESPN board who posted the other day that "It looks like I was right about the stadium" or something like that, his theory being the reason the next meeting by the County Commission regarding a Marlins vote was put off until January was because that way Loria could save $$$ by not having to pay back a piece of his MLB loan.

 

The only problem is the five year clock on that deal ran out in January 2007. Not January 2008.

 

2002-2003, 2003-2004, 2004-2005, 2005-2006, 2006-2007. Five years.

 

 

I realize no one is going to change your mind and I'm not even going to try (Merry Christmas BTW).

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This reminds me of this guy on the Marlins ESPN board who posted the other day that "It looks like I was right about the stadium" or something like that, his theory being the reason the next meeting by the County Commission regarding a Marlins vote was put off until January was because that way Loria could save $$$ by not having to pay back a piece of his MLB loan.

 

The only problem is the five year clock on that deal ran out in January 2007. Not January 2008.

 

2002-2003, 2003-2004, 2004-2005, 2005-2006, 2006-2007. Five years.

 

 

I realize no one is going to change your mind and I'm not even going to try (Merry Christmas BTW).

 

No 2003, you will NEVER change my mind that Loria is the Devil incarnate, and I will forever think of him as the Grinch who tried to steal baseball out of Miami (and he still might succeed and until the stadium is built I won't believe it). I will loathe his ownership every time I see Cabrera hit a HR, Dontrelle win a game, Mike Lowell win WS games, and Brad Penny win games for the Dodgers knowing that if he had just at least tried to get a stadium built, maybe, just maybe we could have kept 1 or 2 of those guys.

 

Merry Christmas to you and your family too. :thumbup (note I got your sarcasm)

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this POV.

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