marlinshomerun

No way the 2008 team loses 100 games. Without Cabrera the offense loses a lot of its punch. Uggla, Hermida and Willingham don't get the pitches they saw. We only won 71 games with the great offense we had last year, now without that we easily lose 10 more games, maybe even 15 more.

Things will surely change, but expect progress to come slowly if at all. You're talking about implementing a whole new philosophy regarding player acquisition. That's harder to instill than it is in video games or without firesales. Part of what made the present system successful was that young stars like Cabrera and Willis knew they were to be held to the same standards as the stopgap journeymen and youngsters of lesser talent they spent 2/3rds of their year with. As we saw following the 2003 World Series, everyone wanted a piece of the pie and some found themselves dismissed or their requests ignored. 78-84 & 71-91 and the prospect of somewhere in the 50's to 60's in wins next year is not successful. Its lousy, and leads to permanent irrelevancy, ala Tampa, Texas or Pittsburgh.

And you realize that means they will still be more than $ 20 million below the next lowest payroll ? :whistle

This winter may prove me wrong but I've said previously I believe, even if a bit of it is for show, upon completion of a deal (and today is not the completion of a deal) the Marlins will immediately double their payroll as an act of good faith to the fans. How long it lasts I don't know. Am I wrong? Maybe. But let's get a deal done first. Double the payroll ? So that means from $ 8 million to $ 16 million. WOW !

This reminds me of this guy on the Marlins ESPN board who posted the other day that "It looks like I was right about the stadium" or something like that, his theory being the reason the next meeting by the County Commission regarding a Marlins vote was put off until January was because that way Loria could save $$$ by not having to pay back a piece of his MLB loan. The only problem is the five year clock on that deal ran out in January 2007. Not January 2008. 2002-2003, 2003-2004, 2004-2005, 2005-2006, 2006-2007. Five years. I realize no one is going to change your mind and I'm not even going to try (Merry Christmas BTW). No 2003, you will NEVER change my mind that Loria is the Devil incarnate, and I will forever think of him as the Grinch who tried to steal baseball out of Miami (and he still might succeed and until the stadium is built I won't believe it). I will loathe his ownership every time I see Cabrera hit a HR, Dontrelle win a game, Mike Lowell win WS games, and Brad Penny win games for the Dodgers knowing that if he had just at least tried to get a stadium built, maybe, just maybe we could have kept 1 or 2 of those guys. Merry Christmas to you and your family too. :thumbup (note I got your sarcasm) We are going to have to agree to disagree on this POV.

And I don't. Because if you recall, different legislators had different takes on this. It was damned if you do and damned if you don't. When the Marlins were not spending money and trying to put a good product on the field, the talk was that why give money for such a team who no one would support anyway. When money was spent to improve the product and there was a rise in attendance, the politicos were saying that if the team can afford to give Delgado $52 mill to play baseball, then they must have plenty of money and do not a $30 mill. dollar rebate. Bob, you and I are different, but given how things have been run for 10 years, even with the 3 years of competitive basball, 30,000 average attendance would not happen in most cities. Really, I do not know why you always want to place most of the blame on the fans. On balance, that is not where is mostly belongs. I agree, its not the fans fault. The last 2 years the attendance has been particularly bad because of what the public percieves as a cheap a** owner, who is not willing to spend to win. Bottom line, many people will not go unless there is some show of this ownership that he is willing to put a competetive team on the field. 2006 was not what management actually wanted....they stayed competitive despite what I believe are managements best attempts to sabatoge the franchise on the field. They also planned to alienate the fanbase, and that has worked. At the time Loria & Co. were I believe convinced they would not be staying in South Fla, and the master plan was to get out of town. Others here will pooh-pooh that, but it makes more sense than saying we just have to cut payroll. There are ways of cutting and not alienating the fanbase. These people didn't care, they thought they were getting out of town. I actually think Bud Selig thought that at 1st too, and helped and aided them, because I am sure Loria had convinced Selig, that it was all the city/county's fault the stadium hadn't been built. Lo and behold MLB came down here this past summer and Loria's worst nightmare happened, MLB found out the city/county were actually resonable, and Selig came out with his statement about wanting baseball here. That is when Marlins management seems to have been kicked out of stadium discussions, and the whole thing taken over by MLB and a deal worked out between those parties. Loria now has been backed into a corner, and is being told he has to take the deal brokered by MLB & the city. His retaliation ? Cut the payroll as low as he can in order to pay off the increased up-front money he will have to pay. Pooh-pooh it or not, but this makes sense and I think is closer to the truth than Marlins management would ever want us to know.

. He is the owner of a private business about to receive millions in public dollars. Some small word would show gratitude. Silence is class-less and ever so slightly concerning. History tells you this man has no regard for the public. He disdains anyone not an "ivy leaguer" like himself. Those people are all cut out of the same cloth -- a gold lame one at that. Oh don't forget the silver spoons they were born with.

My guess is that things are not quite as simple, cut and dried, as the memo would suggest. Hopefully, it's not going to be a problem, and there's no cause for any one to lose sleep. In the meantime, it sure would be nice to hear something from Loria. Why would you hear from him, except to kill the whole thing. I hope he won't kill the whole thing by Jan 10. Watch for Loria to make some kind of "unacceptable" demand, and kill the project. At least then MLB execs will see it isn't the local politicos but Marlins brass that is responsible for the stadium delays. Give it a break. He's not going to do that. I will not believe he intends to keep the team here until I see shovels in the ground at the OB site. Until then I will believe the worst in Jeff Loria, because experience tells me not to believe anything he says.

My guess is that things are not quite as simple, cut and dried, as the memo would suggest. Hopefully, it's not going to be a problem, and there's no cause for any one to lose sleep. In the meantime, it sure would be nice to hear something from Loria. Why would you hear from him, except to kill the whole thing. I hope he won't kill the whole thing by Jan 10. Watch for Loria to make some kind of "unacceptable" demand, and kill the project. At least then MLB execs will see it isn't the local politicos but Marlins brass that is responsible for the stadium delays.

btw anyone know what am channel is that Marlin commentary on and at what time. b/c Samson said nothing yesterday on the Lebatard show That's actually a good thing. The more the midget keeps his yap shut, the faster this all will happen.

I get the feeling that if a new owner comes in, then he'll clean house with the coaching staff and front office :thumbup God I hope you are right.

And with the name change, all our "Florida Marlins" logo merchandise, especially the World Series memorabilia, goes up in price/value... for that to happen you need some demand as for the name miami marlins distances fanbase from outside of miami Yeah like there are lots of those in the rest of Florida. We see it in the Florida Legislature every year how popular they are. They should have been Miami Marlins from the get-go.

Besides the Twins, Diamondbacks, and Rangers.....isn't every other team named after the city rather than the state? This team should have been the Miami Marlins from the start, except I guess 'ol Wayne didn't want that. How about the Rockies ?

Miami Marlins for sure. The Old Miami Marlins Uni's are WAY BETTER IMHO than the Teal. Agreed. I would like the old colors, and besides think of the concessions sales. Then Loria couldn't cry poormouth. He would have money right out of his azz from new jerseys, coffee mugs, pennants, glasses, caps, etc etc etc.

Dolphins owner Wayne Huizenga has told several sources -- both inside and outside of the organization -- he is considering selling the team and the stadium because of his continued frustrations with Miami's current winless state. His asking price would be between $1.1 billion and $1.2 billion, a high-end source has told The Miami Herald. Huizenga declined to comment through the Dolphins media relations department and on Friday was not made available to speak with reporters as he left the team's Davie practice facility. Four sources have confirmed Huizenga's state of mind to The Herald Huizenga has spoken to several confidants outside of the organization, voicing those same frustrations while even naming potential suitors who would be willing to enter into negotiations. Sources within the organization are also aware of Huizenga's growing discontent and potential desire to sell the team. Huizenga has in the past said the Dolphins are not for sale, but always added the caveat that he would consider any serious offer. A source with the Florida Panthers told The Herald this week that, at one point last year Huizenga spoke with advertising executive (and Panthers minority owner) Jordan Zimmerman about potential interest. Those talks were very preliminary, and they did not materialize into anything nearly as serious as Huizenga's current considerations. Zimmerman told The Herald this week he is not interested in buying the team at this point. The Dolphins are currently the only NFL team without a victory. The team has three more opportunities to win a game and avoid becoming the first NFL team ever to lose every game in a 16-game season. Forbes Magazine this year valued the Dolphins at $942 million, with a revenue stream of approximately $215 million. The valuation makes the Dolphins the 15th-priciest NFL franchise. The Dallas Cowboys, by comparison, were the highest valued at $1.5 billion. The Minnesota Vikings were the lowest at $782 million. The Dolphins organization and Dolphin Stadium would be offered as a package deal assuming a sale happens. Huizenga purchased the team from the Robbie family in 1994 for $138 million. It is interesting that Huizenga has made comments about selling despite his recent commitment to spend approximately $250 million to upgrade Dolphin Stadium, with the final phase of that upgrade to be completed by 2009. When Huizenga initially agreed to purchase the team, he needed to wait more than three years before officially becoming the team's owner because of the league's cross-ownership policy, which was altered in 1997 to allow controlling interest in other sports. Since, however, his investment has gained $804 million in worth. When he purchased the NFL team, he also owned the Marlins and the Panthers, which he brought to South Florida. He has since sold his interests in both the baseball and hockey organizations. http://www.miamiherald.com/598/story/345175.html

I don't know.. Last I remember, he left for personal reasons. I hope the guy is doing alright, but I'm glad he left when he did cause it opened the door for Uggla. Exactly....danny never gets his chance if Pokey had stuck around.

The new stadium will be pretty well packed for the first few years, or until the new car smell wears off. Until the next firesale, which unless its in writing of a stadium agreement, that the ownership has to keep a competitive salary, expect more of the same, with Loria reaping hundreds of millions by the time he sells the team. Meanwhile expect 4th & 5th place finishes forever. We are the next Devil Rays....conform and accept the inevitable. :banghead

Im still cautiously optimistic. I'll get really excited when the shovel hits the dirt. Thanks for the updates though 2003. So, if this goes through, what will be the quikest way for fans to get to the game who are coming from North Broward County that live near the FL Turnpike? Turnpike to Golden Glades to I-95 to 836 (Dolphins Expressway) to 12th or 17th Ave exits then down 8 to 10 blocks.

I think also with MLB involved it must mean that if the Marlins reject this, it would mean MLB would act on ownership and try to exert effort to get someone in here who will do the deal. MLB won't be happy if Loria says "NO" now. They will see that its the ownership that has been the problem since Loria took over.

Thanks for the wallpapers. The one of Miller is now my desktop.

Not saying it explains everything, but the Devil Rays actually have their own stadium and arn't committed to an awful lease like the Marlins that confines their ability to make money. Also, when Loria is saying that there isn't money for things like a higher payroll, he's not necessarily saying that he himself doesn't have that money to pay (obviously he does). He's saying that the Marlins organization doesn't have the money for a higher payroll. There is a difference between Loria's personal finances and the finances of the Marlins organization. I don't know about that. I believe Loria is taking the Marlins surplus & using it on himself, in the form of (hyperinflated) "salary". That may very well be true. However, neither you nor I will actually know whether that's the case. My only point (which is not a defense of Loria; donations to Yale are always indefensible IMO) was that you can't definitively prove that Loria is shortending the Marlins simply by virtue of the fact that he donated a large sum of money to his alma mater. That money could come from sources completely independent of his dealings with the Marlins. Also, Loria saying "The Marlins are cash-strapped" is not the same as Loria saying, "I'm cash-strapped." That said, speculate all you want. Hence the reason I used the phrase " I believe".

Not saying it explains everything, but the Devil Rays actually have their own stadium and arn't committed to an awful lease like the Marlins that confines their ability to make money. Also, when Loria is saying that there isn't money for things like a higher payroll, he's not necessarily saying that he himself doesn't have that money to pay (obviously he does). He's saying that the Marlins organization doesn't have the money for a higher payroll. There is a difference between Loria's personal finances and the finances of the Marlins organization. I don't know about that. I believe Loria is taking the Marlins surplus & using it on himself, in the form of (hyperinflated) "salary".

The only problem with your post is the fact that Loria pockets the vast majority of the corporate wellfare MLB gives him...ergo it goes into his own personal finances...ergo while it could be indirect MLB effectively paid for an addition to Yale while the franchise the money should be going to recieves basically none of it. Be self indulgent all you want, but use your own personal money to do so. Not money you have laundered from MLB. This is exactly why most are pissed. He says on one hand he doesn't have money except for a bargain-basement team yet gives away money intended to keep the team from floundering. No one here can adaquately explain away the millions he is getting in revenue sharing. The Tampa Bay team has basically the same attendance as the Marlins, yet still manages to spend consistantly $ 30 million +. If, as one here claims, baseball owners don't dip into their own personal finances to pay for the team, how can Tampa spend so much and the Marlins spend so little, and yet we are led to believe that the Marlins are only "breaking even". The numbers just don't add up. Loria is pilfering the Marlins for money, and everyone here knows it. Whether or not they have the integrity to admit to it.

Unfortunate, I'd like to reacquire Helms. I'm not so ready. He wasn't to nice to the fans of the Marlins on his way out. I remember he made a few very nasty comments. I hope I can find a link. We may be small in number, but the ones we have are loyal and don't deseve to be lumped in with Loria & Co.

What percentage of the stadium usage do you think will be Marlins related and who do you think will control the management of the stadium? The orginal deal gave the Marlins total control over the stadium. My understanding of what has been negotiated in this last round is while the Marlins will be year round tenants (offices, etc.) they will in effect rent the stadium for 81 home games+ (time in between, etc.) and the city/county will control usage (concerts, political conventions, whatever) in the off months. All this is subject to the final deal but that in itself is a quantum change in the original terms. And a much better deal for the taxpayers who will be paying for the whole thing upfront.