December 24, 200718 yr I swear to God there was no sarcasm implied or meant. Honestly. All I did was wish you a Merry Christmas. We disagree often but I was trying to be nice because of the holiday.
December 28, 200718 yr There you go again hurting posters feeling 2003! :nono You gotta lotta nerve. :shifty
December 28, 200718 yr I swear to God there was no sarcasm implied or meant. Honestly. All I did was wish you a Merry Christmas. We disagree often but I was trying to be nice because of the holiday. He could be Jewish. You were being insensitive. I'm soooooo ashamed :notworthy , how could I have been so insensitive? You're right Pengy.
December 28, 200718 yr I swear to God there was no sarcasm implied or meant. Honestly. All I did was wish you a Merry Christmas. We disagree often but I was trying to be nice because of the holiday. He could be Jewish. You were being insensitive. I'm soooooo ashamed :notworthy , how could I have been so insensitive? You're right Pengy. The newer and all warm and fuzzy 03 :thumbup
January 2, 200818 yr I can't stand Michael Putney... Miami Herald, January 2nd COUNTY FINANCES Questions remain about the new ballpark BY MICHAEL PUTNEY Of the many file folders on my desk, the largest, oldest and most vexing is the one marked ''Marlins Stadium.'' I hauled it out and thumbed through it in preparation for the Miami-Dade Commission meeting on Thursday, Jan. 10, when the latest in a string of stadium financing plans will be discussed -- and probably approved. Nevertheless, the question for commissioners and the mayor remains: Should it be? ? Should half a billion dollars, most of it public money, be invested in a sports facility that financially benefits a private corporate enterprise? ? Should $370 million in taxpayers' dollars be spent on a facility that would have no mass transit, aside from buses, or adequate parking, beyond a proposed 6,000-space parking garage? ? Should that much money be spent on a nondescript neighborhood that offers no nearby bars, clubs, restaurants or shopping to make a night or afternoon at a ballgame a fuller experience? ? Should a stadium be built at the Orange Bowl site merely because the city of Miami owns the land and can't afford to buy any other land downtown, where a stadium might make sense? ? Should the city of Miami and Miami-Dade County pony up their share of stadium money before the Marlins have guaranteed theirs? ? Where would the Marlins get $155 milllion in ''up front'' money? And even if they can, does Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria have deep enough pockets to pay for stadium cost overruns, as he has promised to do? Or could he cut corners on design and materials to bring it in on budget? Yep, a bunch of tough questions, and I don't pretend to have the answers. I just fear the questions may not be asked when the stadium train rumbles through the commission chamber next Thursday. The engineers are Mayors Carlos Alvarez and Manny Diaz, both longtime supporters of a new baseball stadium. Their usual argument in favor is that Miami can't be a major-league city without Major League Baseball played in a ''world class'' stadium. That's an argument, however, that evaporates under close scrutiny. We already are a major city thanks to our airport and seaport, the export/import companies that use them and the international banks and investment firms that do business here. I'd argue that South Beach, the Miami Book Fair International and Art Basel Miami Beach do more to confirm our big-league status than the Marlins. Still, professional baseball is a nice amenity for any city, and it's better when played in a comfortable, accessible, affordable stadium. Even Joe Robbie Stadium (forgive me, I've been here a long time) can provide an excellent baseball experience. A hot dog and a few brews while watching a pitching duel or hit-fest on a summer night is a lot of fun, and I'd be disappointed if it weren't there. But should taxpayers for the next few decades subsidize that day or night at the ballpark, even using tourist bed-tax dollars whose spending purposes are limited? That's what county commissioners and the mayor must decide next week. I trust they will answer all the questions I've posed -- plus many of their own -- before they vote.
January 2, 200818 yr I can't stand Michael Putney... Miami Herald, January 2nd COUNTY FINANCES Questions remain about the new ballpark BY MICHAEL PUTNEY Of the many file folders on my desk, the largest, oldest and most vexing is the one marked ''Marlins Stadium.'' I hauled it out and thumbed through it in preparation for the Miami-Dade Commission meeting on Thursday, Jan. 10, when the latest in a string of stadium financing plans will be discussed -- and probably approved. Nevertheless, the question for commissioners and the mayor remains: Should it be? ? Should half a billion dollars, most of it public money, be invested in a sports facility that financially benefits a private corporate enterprise? ? Should $370 million in taxpayers' dollars be spent on a facility that would have no mass transit, aside from buses, or adequate parking, beyond a proposed 6,000-space parking garage? ? Should that much money be spent on a nondescript neighborhood that offers no nearby bars, clubs, restaurants or shopping to make a night or afternoon at a ballgame a fuller experience? ? Should a stadium be built at the Orange Bowl site merely because the city of Miami owns the land and can't afford to buy any other land downtown, where a stadium might make sense? ? Should the city of Miami and Miami-Dade County pony up their share of stadium money before the Marlins have guaranteed theirs? ? Where would the Marlins get $155 milllion in ''up front'' money? And even if they can, does Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria have deep enough pockets to pay for stadium cost overruns, as he has promised to do? Or could he cut corners on design and materials to bring it in on budget? Yep, a bunch of tough questions, and I don't pretend to have the answers. I just fear the questions may not be asked when the stadium train rumbles through the commission chamber next Thursday. The engineers are Mayors Carlos Alvarez and Manny Diaz, both longtime supporters of a new baseball stadium. Their usual argument in favor is that Miami can't be a major-league city without Major League Baseball played in a ''world class'' stadium. That's an argument, however, that evaporates under close scrutiny. We already are a major city thanks to our airport and seaport, the export/import companies that use them and the international banks and investment firms that do business here. I'd argue that South Beach, the Miami Book Fair International and Art Basel Miami Beach do more to confirm our big-league status than the Marlins. Still, professional baseball is a nice amenity for any city, and it's better when played in a comfortable, accessible, affordable stadium. Even Joe Robbie Stadium (forgive me, I've been here a long time) can provide an excellent baseball experience. A hot dog and a few brews while watching a pitching duel or hit-fest on a summer night is a lot of fun, and I'd be disappointed if it weren't there. But should taxpayers for the next few decades subsidize that day or night at the ballpark, even using tourist bed-tax dollars whose spending purposes are limited? That's what county commissioners and the mayor must decide next week. I trust they will answer all the questions I've posed -- plus many of their own -- before they vote. A running out of time on the clock editorial rehashing all the same questions that we have been discussing for the longest time on this board. Maybe we should look into a plagiarism charge. What is the purpose of this editorial at this time in the process and what is Putney doing. An editorial should provide new insight, commentary and thoughtful discussion-not a cheap rerun of old questions and issues. It is as if Putney had to write an article to meet a deadline, had too much to drink on New Years eve and just took the easy, cheap way out. And oh yea, as much as I am for diverse choices in a city, while the Art Basel and the Book Fair are nice, I am not sure I would argue that those events are what really make us a major league city. By themselves, they serve fewer people and a much smaller section of the population than a successful baseball team. Maybe I aint got no culture, but I doubt the Art Fair is well known outside S. Florida to anyone but rich art owners.
January 2, 200818 yr When Putney says that the tourist bed-tax dollars are limited in their use, what does he mean? I've been led to believe that this money somehow must be used for a sports facility ONLY. What's the straight poop?
January 2, 200818 yr I can't stand Michael Putney... Miami Herald, January 2nd COUNTY FINANCES Questions remain about the new ballpark BY MICHAEL PUTNEY Of the many file folders on my desk, the largest, oldest and most vexing is the one marked ''Marlins Stadium.'' I hauled it out and thumbed through it in preparation for the Miami-Dade Commission meeting on Thursday, Jan. 10, when the latest in a string of stadium financing plans will be discussed -- and probably approved. Nevertheless, the question for commissioners and the mayor remains: Should it be? ? Should half a billion dollars, most of it public money, be invested in a sports facility that financially benefits a private corporate enterprise? ? Should $370 million in taxpayers' dollars be spent on a facility that would have no mass transit, aside from buses, or adequate parking, beyond a proposed 6,000-space parking garage? ? Should that much money be spent on a nondescript neighborhood that offers no nearby bars, clubs, restaurants or shopping to make a night or afternoon at a ballgame a fuller experience? ? Should a stadium be built at the Orange Bowl site merely because the city of Miami owns the land and can't afford to buy any other land downtown, where a stadium might make sense? ? Should the city of Miami and Miami-Dade County pony up their share of stadium money before the Marlins have guaranteed theirs? ? Where would the Marlins get $155 milllion in ''up front'' money? And even if they can, does Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria have deep enough pockets to pay for stadium cost overruns, as he has promised to do? Or could he cut corners on design and materials to bring it in on budget? Yep, a bunch of tough questions, and I don't pretend to have the answers. I just fear the questions may not be asked when the stadium train rumbles through the commission chamber next Thursday. The engineers are Mayors Carlos Alvarez and Manny Diaz, both longtime supporters of a new baseball stadium. Their usual argument in favor is that Miami can't be a major-league city without Major League Baseball played in a ''world class'' stadium. That's an argument, however, that evaporates under close scrutiny. We already are a major city thanks to our airport and seaport, the export/import companies that use them and the international banks and investment firms that do business here. I'd argue that South Beach, the Miami Book Fair International and Art Basel Miami Beach do more to confirm our big-league status than the Marlins. Still, professional baseball is a nice amenity for any city, and it's better when played in a comfortable, accessible, affordable stadium. Even Joe Robbie Stadium (forgive me, I've been here a long time) can provide an excellent baseball experience. A hot dog and a few brews while watching a pitching duel or hit-fest on a summer night is a lot of fun, and I'd be disappointed if it weren't there. But should taxpayers for the next few decades subsidize that day or night at the ballpark, even using tourist bed-tax dollars whose spending purposes are limited? That's what county commissioners and the mayor must decide next week. I trust they will answer all the questions I've posed -- plus many of their own -- before they vote. A running out of time on the clock editorial rehashing all the same questions that we have been discussing for the longest time on this board. Maybe we should look into a plagiarism charge. What is the purpose of this editorial at this time in the process and what is Putney doing. An editorial should provide new insight, commentary and thoughtful discussion-not a cheap rerun of old questions and issues. It is as if Putney had to write an article to meet a deadline, had too much to drink on New Years eve and just took the easy, cheap way out. And oh yea, as much as I am for diverse choices in a city, while the Art Basel and the Book Fair are nice, I am not sure I would argue that those events are what really make us a major league city. By themselves, they serve fewer people and a much smaller section of the population than a successful baseball team. Maybe I aint got no culture, but I doubt the Art Fair is well known outside S. Florida to anyone but rich art owners. I would say that on a see-saw I'd put a higher value to a community overall to MLB over Art Basel. Yet I do know at least a couple dozen people who come to Miami for Art Basel and I don't know anyone who comes here to see MLB(apart from people on this board). Granted it's a small sample size, and my sister is an artist and all the people I know are through her. Still, this is just one artist, and none of the people fall into the rich art owner category.
January 3, 200818 yr When Putney says that the tourist bed-tax dollars are limited in their use, what does he mean? I've been led to believe that this money somehow must be used for a sports facility ONLY. What's the straight poop? This money can only be used towards entertainment-esque facilities, such as a stadium, a museum, a convention center, etc.
January 3, 200818 yr I can't stand Michael Putney... Miami Herald, January 2nd COUNTY FINANCES Questions remain about the new ballpark BY MICHAEL PUTNEY Of the many file folders on my desk, the largest, oldest and most vexing is the one marked ''Marlins Stadium.'' I hauled it out and thumbed through it in preparation for the Miami-Dade Commission meeting on Thursday, Jan. 10, when the latest in a string of stadium financing plans will be discussed -- and probably approved. Nevertheless, the question for commissioners and the mayor remains: Should it be? ? Should half a billion dollars, most of it public money, be invested in a sports facility that financially benefits a private corporate enterprise? ? Should $370 million in taxpayers' dollars be spent on a facility that would have no mass transit, aside from buses, or adequate parking, beyond a proposed 6,000-space parking garage? ? Should that much money be spent on a nondescript neighborhood that offers no nearby bars, clubs, restaurants or shopping to make a night or afternoon at a ballgame a fuller experience? ? Should a stadium be built at the Orange Bowl site merely because the city of Miami owns the land and can't afford to buy any other land downtown, where a stadium might make sense? ? Should the city of Miami and Miami-Dade County pony up their share of stadium money before the Marlins have guaranteed theirs? ? Where would the Marlins get $155 milllion in ''up front'' money? And even if they can, does Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria have deep enough pockets to pay for stadium cost overruns, as he has promised to do? Or could he cut corners on design and materials to bring it in on budget? Yep, a bunch of tough questions, and I don't pretend to have the answers. I just fear the questions may not be asked when the stadium train rumbles through the commission chamber next Thursday. The engineers are Mayors Carlos Alvarez and Manny Diaz, both longtime supporters of a new baseball stadium. Their usual argument in favor is that Miami can't be a major-league city without Major League Baseball played in a ''world class'' stadium. That's an argument, however, that evaporates under close scrutiny. We already are a major city thanks to our airport and seaport, the export/import companies that use them and the international banks and investment firms that do business here. I'd argue that South Beach, the Miami Book Fair International and Art Basel Miami Beach do more to confirm our big-league status than the Marlins. Still, professional baseball is a nice amenity for any city, and it's better when played in a comfortable, accessible, affordable stadium. Even Joe Robbie Stadium (forgive me, I've been here a long time) can provide an excellent baseball experience. A hot dog and a few brews while watching a pitching duel or hit-fest on a summer night is a lot of fun, and I'd be disappointed if it weren't there. But should taxpayers for the next few decades subsidize that day or night at the ballpark, even using tourist bed-tax dollars whose spending purposes are limited? That's what county commissioners and the mayor must decide next week. I trust they will answer all the questions I've posed -- plus many of their own -- before they vote. A running out of time on the clock editorial rehashing all the same questions that we have been discussing for the longest time on this board. Maybe we should look into a plagiarism charge. What is the purpose of this editorial at this time in the process and what is Putney doing. An editorial should provide new insight, commentary and thoughtful discussion-not a cheap rerun of old questions and issues. It is as if Putney had to write an article to meet a deadline, had too much to drink on New Years eve and just took the easy, cheap way out. And oh yea, as much as I am for diverse choices in a city, while the Art Basel and the Book Fair are nice, I am not sure I would argue that those events are what really make us a major league city. By themselves, they serve fewer people and a much smaller section of the population than a successful baseball team. Maybe I aint got no culture, but I doubt the Art Fair is well known outside S. Florida to anyone but rich art owners. I would say that on a see-saw I'd put a higher value to a community overall to MLB over Art Basel. Yet I do know at least a couple dozen people who come to Miami for Art Basel and I don't know anyone who comes here to see MLB(apart from people on this board). Granted it's a small sample size, and my sister is an artist and all the people I know are through her. Still, this is just one artist, and none of the people fall into the rich art owner category. Over the course of a baseball season, and the attraction of S. Florida as a tourist destination, many baseball fans make the trip to see their team play here because it is S. Florida so they plan their trip accordingly. Maybe they would have come anyway, or maybe they say, "hey, we are playing down there, lets make a few days out of it". So, if we can be competitive, we can make it on the national telecasts as well. Then the network can lead off, like they always do, with shots of the hotels, the beaches, the skimpy bathing suits etc. Hell, I live here and I want to go to S. Beach when I see that. What do they show us from Pittsburgh to make us want to take a trip there? The impact and long term marketing is much more than the book fair and art basel. Again, I think they all belong here, but the issue is with Putney making a point about measuring the relative value.
January 3, 200818 yr Over the course of a baseball season, and the attraction of S. Florida as a tourist destination, many baseball fans make the trip to see their team play here because it is S. Florida so they plan their trip accordingly. Maybe they would have come anyway, or maybe they say, "hey, we are playing down there, lets make a few days out of it". So, if we can be competitive, we can make it on the national telecasts as well. Then the network can lead off, like they always do, with shots of the hotels, the beaches, the skimpy bathing suits etc. Hell, I live here and I want to go to S. Beach when I see that. What do they show us from Pittsburgh to make us want to take a trip there? The impact and long term marketing is much more than the book fair and art basel. Again, I think they all belong here, but the issue is with Putney making a point about measuring the relative value. I agree with your points, baseball is more valuable because it attracts more people, and I agree that seeing the bikini bods before the game makes me want to stop watching and just head to the beach. I do think Putney makes some very valid arguments, most notably the lack of public transportation and the pathetic potential for surrounding development of bars and restaurants at the OB site. I strongly disagree with Putney however on the crap about the stadium "only benefiting a private enterprise." Subsidies for corporations like Burger King to keep them in Miami are things that mostly, but not only, benefit private enterprise. I'm all for subsidizing corporations to keep jobs here. Every city does it (New York City basically built Goldman Sachs, one of the wealthiest companies on the planet, its own office building, as did Philadelphia for Comcast, another money-printing machine). But subsidizing baseball actually benefits the public more, since hopefully 25,000 S. Florida citizens will be at the game (as opposed to what, 2000 BK employees?), spending money on tickets, concessions, parking, etc. How a city can justify subsidizing billion-dollar corporations but not a baseball team that its citizens actually pay to see? It's not like South Floridians go to BK's headquarters and watch its accountants play with their calculators.
January 6, 200818 yr I'm tired of trying to rationalize these "writers" comments regarding the stadium... rehashing their bulls*** time and time again is getting old. Uh, whatever.
January 8, 200818 yr (Marlins Fans), people will come (Marlins Fans). They'll come to (Florida) for reasons they can't even fathom. They'll turn up your (parking lot) not knowing for sure why they're doing it. They'll arrive at your door as innocent as children, longing for the past. Of course, we won't mind if you look around, you'll say. It's only $20 per person. They'll pass over the money without even thinking about it: for it is money they have and peace they lack. And they'll walk out to the bleachers; sit in shirtsleeves on a perfect afternoon. They'll find they have reserved seats somewhere along one of the baselines, where they sat when they were children and cheered their heroes. And they'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have to brush them away from their faces. People will come (Marlins Fans). The one constant through all the years, (Guys and Girls), has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game: it's a part of our past, (People). It reminds of us of all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... people will come (Everyone). People will most definitely come. I can live in the deluded world of blind optimism I continue to live in
January 8, 200818 yr There will be no vote on the Stadium on January 10. There are 18 business issues to be resolved, 3 or 4 of which are substantial. Therefore, this will not be voted on. I don't have a link. I am just in the know.
January 8, 200818 yr There will be no vote on the Stadium on January 10. There are 18 business issues to be resolved, 3 or 4 of which are substantial. Therefore, this will not be voted on. I don't have a link. I am just in the know. how can that be when their say last meeting that their will talk about it on thur jan 10 maybe ((cape)) can check on it
January 8, 200818 yr There will be no vote on the Stadium on January 10. There are 18 business issues to be resolved, 3 or 4 of which are substantial. Therefore, this will not be voted on. I don't have a link. I am just in the know. how can that be when their say last meeting that their will talk about it on thur jan 10 maybe ((cape)) can check on it Miamibaseball, because negotiations aren't complete or at least close enough to give the commission something to vote on. You don't want to ask for a premature vote when nothing is accomplished and still have to come back for a second or third vote of approval.
January 8, 200818 yr There will be no vote on the Stadium on January 10. There are 18 business issues to be resolved, 3 or 4 of which are substantial. Therefore, this will not be voted on. I don't have a link. I am just in the know. how can that be when their say last meeting that their will talk about it on thur jan 10 maybe ((cape)) can check on it I'm sure that they will TALK about the stadium issue, and talk about some of these issues that Primenito says need to be resolved. . . He's not saying they won't talk. . He's saying they will not VOTE. . . . My belief is that one of the biggest stumbling blocks is the cost-overrun question. Just how much are the Marlins really committing to covering? Commissioners would rightfully be reluctant to enter into an agreement that left Miami-Dade citizens on the hook for some possibly quite high amount.
January 8, 200818 yr Date pushed to Jan 22 http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_n...ory/371598.html
January 8, 200818 yr each day my optimism that this deal will be completed lessens , and this now gives that a-hole car salesman more time to build up opposition
January 8, 200818 yr My guess is that things are not quite as simple, cut and dried, as the memo would suggest. Hopefully, it's not going to be a problem, and there's no cause for any one to lose sleep. In the meantime, it sure would be nice to hear something from Loria. +1 + begin losing a little sleep
January 9, 200818 yr Now it looks like we won't have a County vote until Jan. 22 and the City will vote on Jan. 24 I hope the parties involved can get their act together and have a final agreement ready for a vote on the dates outlined above. January 8, 2008 Marlins Stadium Update No. 3,899 > Posted by Sarah Talalay at 11:40 PM As alluded to in yesterday's blog item, the Baseball Stadium Agreement isn't ready for a vote of the Miami-Dade County Commission on Thursday. Representatives of the Marlins, Major League Baseball, the county and city of Miami have been negotiating the agreement for days, but there are still issues to be worked out. County Manager George Burgess is scheduled to give the commission an update on negotiations at Thursday's commission meeting. Commission Chairman Bruno Barreiro says he will ask for the item to be deferred until the commission's next meeting on Jan. 22 "so everyone can have enough time to review and analyze the whole package," Barreiro said. "Even if it gets ready by Thursday, there definitely won't be enough time to review it," he said. "I don't want to take a blind vote." After all, the city commission was criticized for voting on the "interlocal agreement" -- that paves the way for the ballpark funding -- only hours after having first been presented with it, the evening before their commission meeting. That agreement expands the boundaries and extends the life of Miami's Community Redevelopment Agencies to raise millions of dollars for projects in the city. The commission delayed a vote on the $525 million ballpark agreement last month to give the sides time to reach an agreement. An earlier draft of the agreement called on the city and county to contribute $370 million in hotel bed and sports facilities taxes and a general obligation bond and for the Marlins to chip in $155 million. Barreiro said he doesn't think the hold up in finishing a Baseball Stadium Agreement is substantive. "I think they?re very close," Barreiro said. "It?s minor details from what I understand, legalities, stuff like that. The stadium itself, I don?t think there?s a lot of big issues." If an agreement is ready in time for the Jan. 22 meeting, the county could vote then followed by the city at its meeting on Jan. 24.
January 9, 200818 yr Sucks. We were just gonna get laptops in class tomorrow at 2PM which was perfect
January 9, 200818 yr each day my optimism that this deal will be completed lessens , and this now gives that a-hole car salesman more time to build up opposition Me too. :confused
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