bobbob1313 Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Not Jimmy Rollins. I'd argue he's not a top 10 player in the NL. You could argue that, but you'd be wrong. Rollins went from slightly underrated before last season to way way way way overrated this season. I don't know if he's an MVP-caliber guy (I don't think that should have been his), but we're not talking all offense, here. Ryan Braun in no way shape or form is a top 10 NL player right now. He is a butcher no matter where he is on the diamond. And while Zimmerman has shown he can do it all, and well, he hasn't excelled at anything but the glove. Jimmy Rollins has everything. Hanley has everything, but better, excluding defense. I'd say they're damn close as of right now. Same goes for Wright. How many third basemen can be 30/30 guys with gold gloves? Wright isn't a gold glove defender, despite the fact that he won a gold glove. It's a terribly meaningless award because the voters are lazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PitchingWinsGames Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Not Jimmy Rollins. I'd argue he's not a top 10 player in the NL. You could argue that, but you'd be wrong. Rollins went from slightly underrated before last season to way way way way overrated this season. I don't know if he's an MVP-caliber guy (I don't think that should have been his), but we're not talking all offense, here. Ryan Braun in no way shape or form is a top 10 NL player right now. He is a butcher no matter where he is on the diamond. And while Zimmerman has shown he can do it all, and well, he hasn't excelled at anything but the glove. Jimmy Rollins has everything. Hanley has everything, but better, excluding defense. I'd say they're damn close as of right now. Same goes for Wright. How many third basemen can be 30/30 guys with gold gloves? Wright isn't a gold glove defender, despite the fact that he won a gold glove. It's a terribly meaningless award because the voters are lazy. See: Jeter, Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Not Jimmy Rollins. I'd argue he's not a top 10 player in the NL. You could argue that, but you'd be wrong. bobbob would be right on this one. Rollins = overrated 20-20-20-20 is overrated? 20-20-20-20 is arbitrary Dude made 450 outs last season in his 700 PAs He still had a RC/27 of 7.5. Remember, we're talking about overall players, not hitters. You can't tell me there are 10 players in the National League that are better all around players than Rollins. Take into consideration the guy's speed and defense, and the position he plays at. You'd be foolish to say Rollins isn't a top 10 all around National League player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 btw, I'm not implying that Jimmy Rollins is a top defensive player, I'm saying he plays a "good" short stop, he's not great, but considering the position he plays at, the numbers he puts up offensively are pretty impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PitchingWinsGames Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 When you say Top 10 players, that means, if I was building a team (regardless of position) that Jimmy Rollins would be in that top 10, that is not the case (specifically using RC/27 from last year) C.Jones Utley Fielder Wright Holliday Pujols Helton Hanley Cabs Howard Dunn Rollins was 19th... since Cabs isn't in the NL anymore, we can even bump him up to 18th Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFishFan Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Am I the only 1 who thinks Jimmy Rollins isn't even the best player on his own team (Utley, anyone)? very close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 When you say Top 10 players, that means, if I was building a team (regardless of position) that Jimmy Rollins would be in that top 10, that is not the case (specifically using RC/27 from last year) C.Jones Utley Fielder Wright Holliday Pujols Helton Hanley Cabs Howard Dunn Rollins was 19th... since Cabs isn't in the NL anymore, we can even bump him up to 18th Ah, but that's not what the question posed. Top 10 "players" in the NL, not top 10 hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PitchingWinsGames Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 When you say Top 10 players, that means, if I was building a team (regardless of position) that Jimmy Rollins would be in that top 10, that is not the case (specifically using RC/27 from last year) C.Jones Utley Fielder Wright Holliday Pujols Helton Hanley Cabs Howard Dunn Rollins was 19th... since Cabs isn't in the NL anymore, we can even bump him up to 18th Ah, but that's not what the question posed. Top 10 "players" in the NL, not top 10 hitters. That list is still fine, sans Fielder's defense, all of those players are "top 10" players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFishFan Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I disagree, I think Zimmerman, based on glove AND bat make him a top 10 player, I'll concede Ryan Braun though. Matt Holliday replaces Braun on my list Unless I missed his name im sorry. It took me I think it was 21 posts before I read Matt Hollidays name. Thats to long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 When you say Top 10 players, that means, if I was building a team (regardless of position) that Jimmy Rollins would be in that top 10, that is not the case (specifically using RC/27 from last year) C.Jones Utley Fielder Wright Holliday Pujols Helton Hanley Cabs Howard Dunn Rollins was 19th... since Cabs isn't in the NL anymore, we can even bump him up to 18th Ah, but that's not what the question posed. Top 10 "players" in the NL, not top 10 hitters. That list is still fine, sans Fielder's defense, all of those players are "top 10" players Rollins ranked 7th in win shares last year in the National League with 28, and since Cabrera isn't in the league anymore, we'll put him at 6th. Win Shares are, of course, biased to teams that win more games, but they factor in defense, offense, and the ballpark you play in. For Rollins to rank 7th in win shares considering the park he plays in and the fact that he hits in the same lineup as Utley and Howard, is pretty impressive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 As far as the Jimmy Rollins and Chase Utley thing goes, It's soooo close, but I give Jimmy Rollins the edge for now. Both had 28 total win shares last year, but Rollins had 5.0 defensive win shares while Utley had 4.7. It's really close, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Rollins also ranked 9th in the NL in VORP last year, just for the record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFishFan Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 When you say Top 10 players, that means, if I was building a team (regardless of position) that Jimmy Rollins would be in that top 10, that is not the case (specifically using RC/27 from last year) C.Jones Utley Fielder Wright Holliday Pujols Helton Hanley Cabs Howard Dunn Rollins was 19th... since Cabs isn't in the NL anymore, we can even bump him up to 18th My Top 10 NL Would be: Holliday Hanley Rollings Wright Fielder Reyes Chipper Phillips Howard Braun Pujols is 13 on my list because i have Byrnes and El Caballo(Carlos Lee) before him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PitchingWinsGames Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I just can't accept Rollins as a top 10 player, he's a good player but he's just not top 10 in the league, especially as easily as you accept it. Just me, *shrugs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PitchingWinsGames Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 When you say Top 10 players, that means, if I was building a team (regardless of position) that Jimmy Rollins would be in that top 10, that is not the case (specifically using RC/27 from last year) C.Jones Utley Fielder Wright Holliday Pujols Helton Hanley Cabs Howard Dunn Rollins was 19th... since Cabs isn't in the NL anymore, we can even bump him up to 18th My Top 10 NL Would be: Holliday Hanley Rollings Wright Fielder Reyes Chipper Phillips Howard Braun Pujols is 13 on my list because i have Byrnes and El Caballo(Carlos Lee) before him. Ack, no, Pujols doesn't belong outside the top 10... dude can play multiple positions, can run well, defend, hit awesomely ... NO WAY is he outside the top 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I just can't accept Rollins as a top 10 player, he's a good player but he's just not top 10 in the league, especially as easily as you accept it. Just me, *shrugs* Understandable. You just have to consider everything; his defense (which is good but not great), his speed, the position he plays at, etc. Rollins is one of those players where you need to dig deep to realize his true value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 My Top 10 NL Would be: Holliday Hanley Rollings Wright Fielder Reyes Chipper Phillips Howard Braun Pujols is 13 on my list because i have Byrnes and El Caballo(Carlos Lee) before him. Eric Byrnes and Carlos Lee before Albert "f***ing" Pujols? Eric Byrnes is a nice player, and he does some things well. He's fun to watch because he runs into walls and stuff. He's not even playing the same game as Pujols. If not for Barry Bonds, Pujols has 3 MVP awards in 7 seasons, and he's finished in the top 4 6 times and the top 10 in every season. Are you kidding me? Dude's most similar players is Joe Dimaggio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PitchingWinsGames Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I just can't accept Rollins as a top 10 player, he's a good player but he's just not top 10 in the league, especially as easily as you accept it. Just me, *shrugs* Understandable. You just have to consider everything; his defense (which is good but not great), his speed, the position he plays at, etc. Rollins is one of those players where you need to dig deep to realize his true value. FWIW, I will concede top 20 though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I just can't accept Rollins as a top 10 player, he's a good player but he's just not top 10 in the league, especially as easily as you accept it. Just me, *shrugs* Understandable. You just have to consider everything; his defense (which is good but not great), his speed, the position he plays at, etc. Rollins is one of those players where you need to dig deep to realize his true value. FWIW, I will concede top 20 though Come on, at least in the top 15... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PitchingWinsGames Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I just can't accept Rollins as a top 10 player, he's a good player but he's just not top 10 in the league, especially as easily as you accept it. Just me, *shrugs* Understandable. You just have to consider everything; his defense (which is good but not great), his speed, the position he plays at, etc. Rollins is one of those players where you need to dig deep to realize his true value. FWIW, I will concede top 20 though Come on, at least in the top 15... Buy me a Philly Cheesesteak and we'll talk :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puma Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I just can't accept Rollins as a top 10 player, he's a good player but he's just not top 10 in the league, especially as easily as you accept it. Just me, *shrugs* Understandable. You just have to consider everything; his defense (which is good but not great), his speed, the position he plays at, etc. Rollins is one of those players where you need to dig deep to realize his true value. FWIW, I will concede top 20 though Come on, at least in the top 15... Buy me a Philly Cheesesteak and we'll talk :lol Sure, I'd be glad to. After all, I owe ya one for creating my Sun Sox logo. Geno's cheese steaks > All :cheers *just pretend the beers are cheese steaks* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbob1313 Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 But seriously, can we talk about the insane amount of crazy that went into picking sh*tty ass 33 year old Eric Byrnes over best player at ever hitting baseballs who is also 27, Albert Pujols. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PitchingWinsGames Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 But seriously, can we talk about the insane amount of crazy that went into picking sh*tty ass 33 year old Eric Byrnes over best player at ever hitting baseballs who is also 27, Albert Pujols. I want to pretend that never happened Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbethan Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Pujols is 13 on my list because i have Byrnes and El Caballo(Carlos Lee) before him. You say some rediculous stuff sometimes. I'm going to give you the shadow of a doubt as a Red Sox fan...maybe you just don't get to see the NL very often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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