Asked him and he also believes in momentum, however, it varies from game to game. He said that you have to create momentum in every single game: getting the big hit, capitalizing on errors, ect.... Once the game is over, the momentum is done. Consistency is a better word for momentum imo.

 

It's all opinion. No matter if it's a MLB player/coach/manager with tons of awards or some fan that rarely goes to the games and sits behind a computer with the all the stats in the world. You can definetly see momentum swings in games, and I do think that can carry over to following games.

 

Personally, I believe in momentum. I also believe a good closed door butt chewing can be a momentum swing. And I don't believe a manager that dosen't chew his players out in the media is a poor manager. Simply because we have no idea what happens behind the scenes. I prefer a boss that can give a butt chewing and make you feel like he really cares about you is better than a guy like Ozzie that wears his heart on his sleeve. But different styles work for different people.

See I'm glad you added Fredi to the poll. These are the games that go most unnoticed, when a manager manages a game extremely well and gets a W. Fredi has had a ton of games like this one where he has done an excellent job and I think we should recognize Fredi a little bit more, especially to all those Fredi haters out there (you know who you are)

 

 

 

Not about to give him a ton of credit for decisions that I would've made (aside from maybe sitting Cody Ross, the rest were obvious). He did his job. He gets good money to do his job.

He's also screwed up plenty of times this year. Like laughable screw up's, too. Walking Werth to face Bako...LAST NIGHT, using Tim Wood in a bases loaded situation (a game the team pretty much HAD TO WIN, and had won...the decision, however, made it more interesting than it should've been) when he had a much better option in the bullpen to go to (Calero). Speaking of Calero...using Calero in a bunch of meaningless situations, while bringing in high WHIP guys like Renyel Pinto, constantly, in high leverage situations. He might deserve credit for tonight, but why shouldn't he get bashed when making a dumb managerial move? The players get bashed when they suck...the manager deserves to get bashed, when he sucks...no?

No. At least not by your standards. If he dosen't really matter then he can never truely suck.

 

BTW He walked Bako to pitch to Werth. And while I didn't like it either, it wasn't as bad a decision as you make it out to be considering Werth's previous 18 ABs and the ASG hoopla. Except to someone who thinks slumps don't matter, only the overall stats.

 

 

Yes, sorry about that. Other way around, but you knew what I meant.

At the end of the day, it's still a stupid move. Deciding to pitch to the way better hitter just b/c he had struggled in a SMALL SAMPLE of 18 at bats is dumb. C'mon, we're comparing a backup catcher in the big leagues to a guy who made the All-Star team this year. And Fredi wanted to pitch to the All-Star. There was no point. That would be like if Charlie Manuel decided to intentionally walk Brett Hayes to pitch to Cody Ross b/c of 3 horrible games against the Braves. It was ridiculous.

 

Now that's funny. Was Werth voted in? Did he deserve to be there over all the other OFers in the NL? The answer would be an emphatic no. Including this ASG, he has appeared in exactly one. With exactly one AB. A strike out, at that. So that is actually 2 hits in 19 ABs with 11 K's. He was an AS because of who the manager of the ASG was and of his contributions to his team last season. No other reason. Happens every year. Ask yourself, had the Phillies not won the WS last year and someone else was managing that AS team, would that manager have taken Werth to the game? And be truthful to yourself when you answer.

 

Just because you either can't or you refuse to wrap your mind around slumps dosen't mean they don't exist and dosen't mean there wasn't a point to that decision. A guy goes into a slump like that and you pitch to him until he shows he has broken out of it. It's taking advantage of a situation. Uggla goes into a slump, do they pitch around him? Hanley goes into a slump, do they pitch around him? They haven't. A guy goes on a tear and a manager had better decide to pitch around him if the game is on the line. Works both ways. Slumps and streaks are a very real facet of this game.

 

Was there a history of pitcher vs hitter? Bako and Werth. I have no idea. But that along with the use or overuse of the pen could also be determining factors. Things you have decided to not factor in.

Is it only managers who have to have played the game? There are tons of GMs who have never played the game at a high level and have succeeded.

 

What about the countless infinite number of former great players who have failed miserably as a manager.

 

Being a former player imo has nothing to do with being a good manager. It's a mix of chance (being hired by a good organization) and the type of person it is, and that type of person doesn't have to be a former player.

Really went over the edge on that one.

 

 

How do you know? Has it ever been proven? If it makes you feel any better, I'll make you the bench coach. Or better yet, you can manage and pick your own bench coach. At the end of the day, people make Fredi Gonzalez out to be a good manager b/c he has this winning record with a low payroll. Yet, at the end of the day, he's also got an MVP candidate, a rookie of the year candidate, and a longshot Cy Young candidate on his team, as well. How many teams have that, again? You look at the talent on this team, and I disagree with the opinions of this team overachieving. They haven't. You can make a case for certain guys overachieving, but for every guy who's overachieved, I can name one who's underachieved, as well.

 

A manager isn't as significant as people make him out to be.

 

No thanks. And yes, it has been proven, in certain ways. Guys that have never played the game but were announcers failing. An owner taking over that role, and lost. A fan doing it just because he had a brother that once played at some level for a short period of time? No. Wonder if there is a reason for that.

 

Far more goes into managing a team than just the in game decisions. Far more than I care to take on. But they are things you give no credence to because they don't show up in any stats. That's playing video games with real life. Dosen't work. And at times yoy even become hypocritical by blaming the manager when you always emphatically say he dosen't make a difference. That makes no sense.

 

There can be a fine line between being self confident and being obnoxiously arrogant. You have a right to your opinions, some I even agree with. But to sit back after the fact and say you would have made all those decisions that went into that particular game is questionable. Saying you agreed with them after you saw the results and saying you would have done them exactly that way, after the results are favorable, is totally different. IMO, you have no right to be critical of a manager when you keep saying he makes no difference.

 

No offense intended. But you asked my opinion. That's it.

 

 

Yup, it's your opinion. And I have mine. Neither has been proven. Btw, there have been many people who turned out to be nothing's as baseball players/never even played the sport and have made fine managers/GM's, as well.

 

And I've already stated in this thread that a manager's job is tougher off the field than it is on it. Perhaps you should read the entire thread, before responding.

See I'm glad you added Fredi to the poll. These are the games that go most unnoticed, when a manager manages a game extremely well and gets a W. Fredi has had a ton of games like this one where he has done an excellent job and I think we should recognize Fredi a little bit more, especially to all those Fredi haters out there (you know who you are)

 

 

 

Not about to give him a ton of credit for decisions that I would've made (aside from maybe sitting Cody Ross, the rest were obvious). He did his job. He gets good money to do his job.

He's also screwed up plenty of times this year. Like laughable screw up's, too. Walking Werth to face Bako...LAST NIGHT, using Tim Wood in a bases loaded situation (a game the team pretty much HAD TO WIN, and had won...the decision, however, made it more interesting than it should've been) when he had a much better option in the bullpen to go to (Calero). Speaking of Calero...using Calero in a bunch of meaningless situations, while bringing in high WHIP guys like Renyel Pinto, constantly, in high leverage situations. He might deserve credit for tonight, but why shouldn't he get bashed when making a dumb managerial move? The players get bashed when they suck...the manager deserves to get bashed, when he sucks...no?

No. At least not by your standards. If he dosen't really matter then he can never truely suck.

 

BTW He walked Bako to pitch to Werth. And while I didn't like it either, it wasn't as bad a decision as you make it out to be considering Werth's previous 18 ABs and the ASG hoopla. Except to someone who thinks slumps don't matter, only the overall stats.

 

 

Yes, sorry about that. Other way around, but you knew what I meant.

At the end of the day, it's still a stupid move. Deciding to pitch to the way better hitter just b/c he had struggled in a SMALL SAMPLE of 18 at bats is dumb. C'mon, we're comparing a backup catcher in the big leagues to a guy who made the All-Star team this year. And Fredi wanted to pitch to the All-Star. There was no point. That would be like if Charlie Manuel decided to intentionally walk Brett Hayes to pitch to Cody Ross b/c of 3 horrible games against the Braves. It was ridiculous.

 

Now that's funny. Was Werth voted in? Did he deserve to be there over all the other OFers in the NL? The answer would be an emphatic no. Including this ASG, he has appeared in exactly one. With exactly one AB. A strike out, at that. So that is actually 2 hits in 19 ABs with 11 K's. He was an AS because of who the manager of the ASG was and of his contributions to his team last season. No other reason. Happens every year. Ask yourself, had the Phillies not won the WS last year and someone else was managing that AS team, would that manager have taken Werth to the game? And be truthful to yourself when you answer.

 

Just because you either can't or you refuse to wrap your mind around slumps dosen't mean they don't exist and dosen't mean there wasn't a point to that decision. A guy goes into a slump like that and you pitch to him until he shows he has broken out of it. It's taking advantage of a situation. Uggla goes into a slump, do they pitch around him? Hanley goes into a slump, do they pitch around him? They haven't. A guy goes on a tear and a manager had better decide to pitch around him if the game is on the line. Works both ways. Slumps and streaks are a very real facet of this game.

 

Was there a history of pitcher vs hitter? Bako and Werth. I have no idea. But that along with the use or overuse of the pen could also be determining factors. Things you have decided to not factor in.

 

 

The first question is retarded. Who cares whether or not he was voted in? Most players that get voted in don't deserve to start b/c they go in, based on their popularity to the fans.

 

As for deserving to be there...ummm, yeah you can make a case for him. .263/.371/.513 were his #'s pre All-Star break. That's an .884 .OPS. That's pretty damn good. Like...I know you're still living in the ages of the dinosaurs, where #'s are completely irrelevant to you, and you base everything on observation, but the #'s over the course of so many games, don't lie. Perhaps you should look them up...Jayson Werth can play.

 

Even if Hanley Ramirez/Dan Uggla are slumping, I guarantee you the opposing manager does not pitch around/flat out intentionally walk (lets say...Brett Hayes, since we're talking about the Marlins) to face a Hanley Ramirez or even a Dan Uggla. That was a laughable decision, sir. And I would still be saying the same thing had the Marlins gotten Jayson Werth out in that situation. Paul Bako is a terrible hitter.

http://www.baseball-.../bakopa01.shtml

 

What's funny is that you laugh at the Jayson Werth All-Star selection, yet you fail to mention that 37 year old Paul Bako has spent more time in AA this year, than he has in the big leagues. B/c he's not good. B/c he wishes he was half of what Jayson Werth is, as a hitter. But, yeah, walking Bako made a lot of sense. A sample of 19...that's not a small sample, or anything.

The first question is retarded. Who cares whether or not he was voted in? Most players that get voted in don't deserve to start b/c they go in, based on their popularity to the fans.

 

As for deserving to be there...ummm, yeah you can make a case for him. .263/.371/.513 were his #'s pre All-Star break. That's an .884 .OPS. That's pretty damn good. Like...I know you're still living in the ages of the dinosaurs, where #'s are completely irrelevant to you, and you base everything on observation, but the #'s over the course of so many games, don't lie. Perhaps you should look them up...Jayson Werth can play.

 

Even if Hanley Ramirez/Dan Uggla are slumping, I guarantee you the opposing manager does not pitch around/flat out intentionally walk (lets say...Brett Hayes, since we're talking about the Marlins) to face a Hanley Ramirez or even a Dan Uggla. That was a laughable decision, sir. And I would still be saying the same thing had the Marlins gotten Jayson Werth out in that situation. Paul Bako is a terrible hitter.

http://www.baseball-.../bakopa01.shtml

 

What's funny is that you laugh at the Jayson Werth All-Star selection, yet you fail to mention that 37 year old Paul Bako has spent more time in AA this year, than he has in the big leagues. B/c he's not good. B/c he wishes he was half of what Jayson Werth is, as a hitter. But, yeah, walking Bako made a lot of sense. A sample of 19...that's not a small sample, or anything.

 

 

 

So much misinformation here about me it's not even worth getting into. But if it makes you feel better, then do what you want. Except I don't laugh at his AS selection. I understand it was a thank you for what he did for the team the year before, not for what he did the first half of this season. Happens every year. You can turn it into laughing at me all you want. That's still the bottom line. "But he's an AS!!" Bah. He was a player in a big slump in a series right after the ASG when alot of players play terribly, so I understood the reasoning. That's playing the numbers, even for a dinasaur.

 

But enough of this. You would rather argue and back it with the name calling for ever instead of admitting there might just be something to someone's opinion other than your own. So post/argue away. I'm moving on.