DMoney82 Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 When I hear ESPN and other media outlets talk about the NL East, the Phillies get most of the attention. In fact, I've seen early predictions pick them number 1. What the hell? The Marlins, in the McKeon Era last year, were the best team in baseball. Jack's Fish, who bear the most resemblance to this year's squad, projected to go 106-56 over a full season and were World Series champs. We bring back everyone important except Pudge and Lee, and our bullpen is being addressed. Beckett and Cabrera are likely to improve on last year's numbers exponentially, we add an ace-level starter in Burnett, and Pavano and Penny are set to improve. I wouldn't be surprised if Penny or Pavs wins 20-games, and I am SURE Josh will (it's his biggest goal). These improvements should make us as good as last year, and we were a JUGGERNAUT last year. The Miggy/Healthy Josh/D-Trian/Jack Fish were not one-year overachievers like the Angels, but a Seattle-2001 type win machine. I think people are selling this team short, including some of us. We should be the most confident team in MLB. Look around baseball, and tell me one roster you'd like to switch with. Our best players have yet to break-out, and are improving more than any other teams superstars. Our other players are all at least in their prime, or before it. I haven't been this excited for a team since the 2001 squad, and I have a lot higher expectations. 100 wins, NL East is the goal. And it should be the prediction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marlin Man Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 points taken, but even with all that, philly looks better on paper and keeping the team intact doesnt necessairly equal sucess, anaheim angels anyone? that said, i think the fish will be very competitive next year and could, very well,win the east. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaq-Man Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 honestly, we don't have the DMoney to put together a team that will be favored to win the NL east. i still think we have a shot, considering our backup for for pudge won't be that big of a dropoff and our backup for lee won't be terrible either. i still need to see how much they're willing to spend on a bullpen, though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeFish Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 the Phillies have the same flaws as in 2003. Wagner will self-destruct when he actually reaches the Philly city limits to pitch in a close game. He is not known to be a cool customer and one bad lickin' by batters and Phillie fans could have him reaching for the Prozac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 the Phillies have the same flaws as in 2003. Wagner will self-destruct when he actually reaches the Philly city limits to pitch in a close game. He is not known to be a cool customer and one bad lickin' by batters and Phillie fans could have him reaching for the Prozac. puh leaze Wagner is as cool as they come. anyway, we wont be favorites, and i dont think we should be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeFish Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 that's why Wagner has been arrested on battery and domestic battery charges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 I don't care about what they say in February and March, only at the end of the World Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marlin Man Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 the Phillies have the same flaws as in 2003. Wagner will self-destruct when he actually reaches the Philly city limits to pitch in a close game. He is not known to be a cool customer and one bad lickin' by batters and Phillie fans could have him reaching for the Prozac. totally disagree...... Wagner is one of the best, he's gonna do well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 and Phillie fans could have him reaching for the Prozac. And the Phillies for the Plesac. :lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marlins2003 Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 As much as I'd like to agree, in order to win 106 you have to have run production and we've just lost two guys who were counted on to move guys over, hit in the clutch (Pudge) and in general help generate some offense. While a full year of Cabs may offset one of those guys, when you add in the loss of Enc, that's a lot of runs to make up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 that's why Wagner has been arrested on battery and domestic battery charges? wtf does that have to do with him closing ballgames? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rferry Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 puh leaze Wagner is as cool as they come. anyway, we wont be favorites, and i dont think we should be IMO, Wagner hurts them. He's certainly better than a better than Mesa, but the Phillies are projected to have 6 lefthanded pitchers. 3 lefty starters, 2 lefty relievers and Wagner. The Braves, Marlins, Cubs and every NL contender is stacked with righthanders. Having too few righties will hurt the Phils in the end I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeFish Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Ramp, Phillie fans will get him first mistake, which knowing anyone who becomes a Phillie, will happen and that is when he will snap. Houston was one thing, Philadelphia is an entirely different ballgame. Just look how he reacted to the blown games he had this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Card Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 puh leaze Wagner is as cool as they come. anyway, we wont be favorites, and i dont think we should be IMO, Wagner hurts them. He's certainly better than a better than Mesa, but the Phillies are projected to have 6 lefthanded pitchers. 3 lefty starters, 2 lefty relievers and Wagner. The Braves, Marlins, Cubs and every NL contender is stacked with righthanders. Having too few righties will hurt the Phils in the end I believe. Very true. Great point. Both the Marlins and Braves crush lefites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 not lefties throwin 100mph use your heads people Wagner is one of the best in the league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMLinkinPark Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 The Expos might win the NL East Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeFish Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 I just have a feeling Wagner is going to degrade this season in Philly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJC Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Wagner is in the top 5 of closers active... no order' Wagner Smoltz Gagne Rivera Hoffman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Wagner is going to dominate and I was never a fan before he came(I'm really now either) but most Phillie fans are ignorant(yes I said it). They support Allen Iverson when he's on top. What does that tell you? Cape if he wins they won't care about his personal life as much as I hate to say it.(That won't be me btw). As far as The Phillies are concerned, their legit contenders if Millwood stays through arbitration which Borass has been suggesting will happen if they don't resign Millwood than they are in trouble. They also need a good set up man to solidify Wagner, Cormier and possibly Pleasac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMoney82 Posted December 9, 2003 Author Share Posted December 9, 2003 anyway, we wont be favorites, and i dont think we should be Why? I don't mean to be an a**, but what reasons would you give? If we are as good as last year, we're the best team in baseball (and not just because of the Series). Was someone's season last year an aberration? A case could be made for Lowell, but he is a younger player (and All-Star) who had been improving every season. Plus, we missed him for a month anyways. Do we have any players past their prime who are due for a downturn in their careers? Aside from Conine, who keeps himself in top shape, no one fits the bill. Every major player is 28 (29?) or younger, even in the rotation. OK, we lost Urbina, and the Phils gained Wagner. This is big, but our bullpen is not done improving and will slightly close the gap with Philly. Plus, can Wagner alone make up for a difference that was probably a good deal larger than the five-games the Marlins led the Phillies by? The Phils also picked up Milton, an injured SP with a lot of potential. Burnett, anyone? He may not be here until May, but last year a SP that came in May had a pretty huge impact. Burrell is likely to bounce back, but it is just as likely that Thome doesn't repeat his MVP numbers. And Beckett and Cabs last regular season to this one will be night and day. I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself a bit, but I feel strongly. I want the Marlins to start getting respect as a team to be feared, instead of a team not to be underestimated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 The Phillies have to be considered the favorites with us and the Braves fighting it out for 2nd/3rd place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramp Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 DLee is replaced by Choi Pudge is gone, replaced by 2 people who may or may not be able to puthup his numbers(combined) no Uggy im not saying we cant win the East, im just saying, we arent the favorites at this point in time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeFish Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 I'd rather be underestimated and surprise, than be a bloated favorite like the braves, phillies, or mets who don't deliver. In the last 15 years only 3 times has the current NL east taken home a champion ship and the marlins have 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 than be a bloated favorite like the braves that don't deliver The Braves don't deliver? So was it The Yankees that were on the top of The Nl East? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reclusedx Posted December 9, 2003 Share Posted December 9, 2003 Wagner is in the top 5 of closers active... no order' Wagner Smoltz Gagne Rivera Hoffman considering the last couple of seasons you gotta consider Gagne number 1 dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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