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Trade I came up with...


MiamiFishFan

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what do yall think???:

 

Atlanta trades: C Nazr Mohammed (6.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.5 apg in 18.5 minutes)

PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (19.9 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.7 apg in 36.3 minutes)

Atlanta receives: PF Al Harrington (12.8 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.1 apg in 31.0 minutes)

PF Austin Croshere (5.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.2 minutes)

SF Caron Butler (4.9 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.5 apg in 25.0 minutes)

PF Samaki Walker (4.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.1 apg in 13.9 minutes)

PF Malik Allen (2.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 12.0 minutes)

Change in team outlook: +3.2 ppg, +5.0 rpg, and +1.2 apg.

 

Indiana trades: PF Al Harrington (12.8 ppg, 6.8 rpg, 2.1 apg in 31.0 minutes)

PF Austin Croshere (5.3 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 0.4 apg in 12.2 minutes)

Indiana receives: SG Eddie Jones (18.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 2.5 apg in 29 games)

Change in team outlook: +0.3 ppg, -6.1 rpg, and 0.0 apg.

 

Miami trades: SG Eddie Jones (18.4 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 2.5 apg in 36.8 minutes)

SF Caron Butler (4.9 ppg, 3.1 rpg, 1.5 apg in 25.0 minutes)

PF Samaki Walker (4.1 ppg, 3.9 rpg, 0.1 apg in 13.9 minutes)

PF Malik Allen (2.4 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 0.3 apg in 12.0 minutes)

Miami receives: C Nazr Mohammed (6.4 ppg, 5.2 rpg, 0.5 apg in 32 games)

PF Shareef Abdur-Rahim (19.9 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 2.7 apg in 32 games)

Change in team outlook: -3.5 ppg, +1.1 rpg, and -1.2 apg.

 

ATL gets rid of SAR and gets a couple of guys in Butler and Harrington in which to build around. They also get a few scrubs to come off the bench. However, they have to take Croshere's contract.

 

MIA gets rid of EJ and even though they get rid of CB4, they get a good inside presence with Shareef and Mohammed. Grant gets to come off the bench since he's getting older and Odom will have a mismatch almost all the time playing the 3 spot in the East and Wade can be moved to the 2 or stay at PG. However, we lose some good outside shooting.

 

IND gets rid of Croshere and is basically trading Harrington and a bad contract for EJ. They get to bring Reggie Miller from the bench. And EJ can replace Miller when he retires.

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iiiiight 1st off you ova thought it......

 

i like it, and u took mad time to think bout it...

 

but why the hell do we even need the pacers to be involved?????

 

we can just have a trade between Atl and Mia.....

 

cuz Al Harringtion is not on teh block.....

 

and nobody wants AC "he is the anytony carter to pacer fans...

 

why trade Caron????? you loved em last year didnt you?????

cuz he is injured you wanna get rid of em just like that... come on dawg, i thought you were a real fan like da rest us stick with our boyz threw da good tiems and the tough times.....

 

clearly our boy Caron is going threw tough times, tryin to find em self getting his game back... remember when T>mac went threw a drought couldnt figure out thye Zone well he bounced back took awhile but he did it.....

 

Atl wants to rebuild but they wanna get rid of Big contracts not accept any.....

 

but see this is where MIA would have the leverage.....

 

SAR this is his final year even thou he is makin da most $$$ he wont be back in a ATL jersey. next year...

 

JT has 2 years left on his contact and he is makin good $$$$$ too.....

 

Al Harringtion has 2 years left counting this one..... but tehy really liek em up teher so i cant see why they gonna ship him off

 

AC should be untouchable he has 3 years left and is making 25% of the INDY Payroll......

 

my boy Zydrunas Ilgauskas is in his final year he makes alot but we should go after him.....

 

i like the Nazir trade thou he has 2 years left.....

 

problem that persists men is.......

 

Eddie Jones and Brain Grant both make alot cheese and have 3 years left on there contacts..... i

 

right now things are lookin bad... why trade jones for guys we would only have 1 year????? and who would accept these big a** contracts

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yeah i tried it at realgm.com and i dont wanna trade butler but i dont know if LO can hold up at the PF. RIght now hes doing a good job and we're lucky we play in the East. But over the long term...can he keep playing against guys who weigh more than him??? Remember we have him for the next 6 yrs. his position is SF, but so is caron's. And i dont know wether or not bringing him off the bench is a good idea. And i know we would only have SAR for a couple of years but remember when he becomes a FA we wouldn't have EJ's contract so perhaps we could resign him.

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why trade Caron????? you loved em last year didnt you?????

cuz he is injured you wanna get rid of em just like that... come on dawg, i thought you were a real fan like da rest us stick with our boyz threw da good tiems and the tough times.....

 

clearly our boy Caron is going threw tough times, tryin to find em self getting his game back... remember when T>mac went threw a drought couldnt figure out thye Zone well he bounced back took awhile but he did it.....

thank you.

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You don't trade Caron. What we need to do is have Odom stop taking the last second threes :D

LMAO. i agree with that. but im saying is if it gets past the all star break and hes still going like this...u wouldn't do something about it???...well, by then everyone would know something is wrong so it would be hard to trade him.

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By Ira Winderman

Staff Writer

Posted January 2 2004

 

MIAMI -- The league's statistics raise the question, as he enters tonight's home game against the Orlando Magic with the lowest shooting percentage of any NBA starting small forward.

 

Thursday's practice at AmericanAirlines Arena only heightened the concern, as he worked in the red jersey that designates the second team, paired alongside the likes of Bimbo Coles, Malik Allen, John Wallace and Wang Zhi-Zhi.

 

And for two months now, the issue has been undeniable during games, as the jumpers clank off the rim and the layups fail to even reach the basket.

 

What the heck has happened to Caron Butler?

 

"I wouldn't have been able to fathom it," Heat coach Stan Van Gundy said, as last season's third-place finisher in balloting for Rookie of the Year struggles to look like an NBA player.

 

Finally, the patience appears to be wearing thin.

 

After 12 consecutive starts, none of which has yielded more than 13 points by the second-year small forward, Van Gundy said a lineup change could come as early as tonight.

 

"I haven't decided who I am starting," Van Gundy said.

 

Last season, Butler was a given when it came to the first unit, a starter in all 78 of his appearances. This season, he has yet to match his 15.4 rookie scoring average in a single game.

 

The gait has been sluggish. There has been practically no lift when he jumps. His game has been reduced to a series of jump shots.

 

"I'm going to make it through this. I've been through way tougher times than this," he said, having lived through months in a juvenile penal facility for carrying an unloaded gun to high school and then having waited until the No. 10 selection for his name to be called on draft night in 2002. "This is nothing."

 

No, this certainly is not nothing, these daily displays that have the 23-year-old former UConn icon little more than a second coming of Kendall Gill.

 

Several factors appear to be at play.

 

Physical concerns

 

The first bad break of Butler's Heat tenure came when he required Oct. 4 arthroscopic surgery to remove loose bodies from his left knee.

 

The procedure not only sidelined him for all of training camp, but also the first five games of the regular season.

 

Then, because of a strength deficit in his left quadriceps, there was a seven-game absence between Nov. 22 and Dec. 6.

 

He insisted he came out of the surgery feeling better than ever. His agent, Raymond Brothers, made a point to seek out team physician Harlan Selesnick to thank him for his diligence.

 

On the court, though, Butler's game has been ailing. Van Gundy said he even went back to the team's medical staff to make sure there was no lingering injury.

 

"We have," he said, "and he's medically OK. We've just got to keep working on it.

 

"Sometimes it takes a long time with guys. You don't want that. You're disappointed in that. But it takes what it takes."

 

Butler asserts he is not playing through pain.

 

"I just decided to come back the first time too early," he said. "It's just a process.

 

"It's hard to get back."

 

Mental concerns

 

The surgery was the first of Butler's basketball career.

 

"It's just mental. It really is, it's just mental," he said. "Imagine coming back to a job where you've got to go against grown men night in a night out and you've got to jump off your leg.

 

"You still probably favor that leg, even knowing there's nothing wrong with it."

 

Center Brian Grant said a recent conversation put his mind at ease.

 

"The first thing I asked him was was this the first time he ever came back from an injury, and he said yes," Grant said. "Right then, I knew that, alone, is tough to do, especially at a young age. I've had seven surgeries and none of 'em have been easy to come back from.

 

"I encouraged him to stay with it, because he's doing everything that he could possibly be doing as far as coming in early, leaving late, putting up shots, riding the bike."

 

Said teammate and friend Rasual Butler, "I just think every once in a while he might have some thoughts that wander through his mind, like, `Why is this happening?'"

 

A new role

 

Last season, Butler was a featured presence, practically a one-man offense when guard Eddie Jones was lost for 35 games due to injury.

 

This season, Butler's role and the structure have changed. Like a pinch hitter in baseball, he has yet to adjust to getting fewer swings per game.

 

With a revamped roster, the offense first goes to free-agent acquisition Lamar Odom and then to rookie point guard Dwyane Wade. From there, Jones gets his opportunities. Then comes Butler's turn.

 

"I think it's just getting to know the system," he said. "I think it's just really hard, when you've got new guys, to get a feel on how can you contribute.

 

"My game is more of a drive game, a post-up game, and I've got to find a way to add that to this system."

 

From a style standpoint, this has not been the same player. Seventy-percent of his shots have been jumpers.

 

"It's just a process. It's hard to get back," he said. "Once you get back, everybody will love you. A lot of people don't like you when you're down."

 

Diminished patience

 

By the time Butler made his initial return, the Heat was 0-5. When he returned a second time, the Heat was 5-15.

 

Although strides have been made since then (the Heat is 8-4 with Butler in the starting lineup), this still is a team six games below .500, one that has been hurt by significant early deficits the past three games.

 

"Our recent starts are a major concern," Van Gundy said. "We're down double figures in the first quarter now all the time. It's becoming a habit, and that's got to change. We are certainly considering making lineup changes."

 

Only once in Butler's 12 starts has he scored more than two points in the first quarter. Six times he has gone scoreless in the opening period. He is averaging 1.4 points over the first 12 minutes of games.

 

The pressure only increased when Butler was handed a red jersey Thursday, even as Van Gundy said it had more to do with best utilizing his roster while preparing for Orlando's Tracy McGrady.

 

"The frustrating thing for me in the past week is I've started to see it out here," Van Gundy said of a recent revival on the practice court by Butler. "The frustrating thing to me is I didn't see it in the games.

 

"It will come back. I'm confident in that. Obviously, you get to the point where you want it to be now."

 

Counted out after a difficult childhood, forced to sit longer than expected on draft night, Butler maintains this is nothing more than the latest hurdle in what will remain a feel-good story.

 

"I'm going to get back, no question," he said. "I'm mentally tougher than this. I'll be back on top, and I'll be smiling again."

-------------------------

 

 

:mischief2 So there might be a change in the lineup tonight. it seems that nobody can explain what's going on with him so we'll just have 2 wait n see...

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basically caron has reached his ceiling in terms of potential or is very close.

potential..i hate that word.

 

I don't think he has reached the ceiling, or is close to it, at all.

 

I, for one, will not judge him from this season...yet. This is the first time he has ever had surgery, and the first time he has had to come back from an injury. I'm not trying to make excuses for him but I think he has a good case for this. And it's not like he isn't improving, which he is. Even Coach Van Gundy said that he was getting more like himself and more aggressive in practice, it just needs to carry out to the games.

 

And yes, Caron shouldn't have came back so early from the injury because that made it even worse. But it's a mistake you can't fix now. Caron's game is coming back to him but the mentality is still blurry. He's not driving in/posting up as much as he did last season because he's probably too over-protective of the knee fearing he'll re-injure it. It's all in the mind. You can't blame him for that. And when Caron doesn't work in the paint, he's definitely not his usual self because Caron just isn't a steady jump shooter.

 

Look at the numbers he posted in his rookie season, 15/5/3. Who says he can't do better??

 

Injuries take time. Just ask Grant Hill.

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I do agree with that. He definitely needs to be more consistent from the perimeter.

 

Caron is gonna have to find other ways to contribute because it's definitely not gonna be as easy to score as last year. Last season, him and EJ were the primary scorers. This year, there are many other options offensive wise...Odom, Wade, EJ and even Alston off the bench. But he's just gonna have to try to get in there as much as possible and help out with rebounding, passing, and/or defense. As long as he contributes some way.

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Can I ask you one question Das?

 

Why are you always bashing the Heat? Do you just hate the Heat for no reason or is it you like to make other fans of others team feel bad?

 

Whatever it is I always see you bashing the Heat and its players and its fans. I dont think you have ever said a positive thing about the Heat everytime there are threads made on the Heat.

 

(sigh)

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