February 12, 200422 yr C. Piazza or Lo Duca 1B. Thome 2B Kent, Soriano, or Castillo 3B. Glaus SS. Tejada OF. Sosa, Ichiro, Hunter DH. all of them SP. Ortiz, Colon, Pettitte, Beckett, Lowe, Moss RP. Gagne Manager. Baker underated: C. Pierzysnki 1B. Mientkiewicz 2B. Loretta 3B. Koskie or Mueller SS. Cabrera or Renteria OF. Nixon, Hidalgo, Edmonds SP. Rueter, Wells, Zambrano RP. Kolb Manager. Williams
February 12, 200422 yr All Overrated Team: C. Lo Duca 1B. Nick Johnson 2B Kaz Matsui 3B. Glaus SS. Tejada or Garciaparra OF. Hideki Matsui, Ichiro, Andruw Jones SP. Ortiz, Burnett, Pettitte, Lowe, Pavano RP. Percival Manager. Torre underated: C. Lieberthal or Phillips 1B. Sexson 2B. Loretta 3B. Koskie or Mueller SS. Bordick (retired), Renteria OF. Nixon, Sanders, Edmonds SP. Brown, Hudson, Escobar, Webb, Contreras RP. Hammond/Mota/Donnelly Manager. Tosca
February 12, 200422 yr How is Gagne overrated? Went from bust to having one of the greatest (if not greatest) seasons EVER for a pitcher.
February 12, 200422 yr Author How is Gagne overrated? Went from bust to having one of the greatest (if not greatest) seasons EVER for a pitcher. he did not deserve the cy young over schmidt and prior.
February 12, 200422 yr and how is rueter underrated? he sucks and has very little physical talent compared to other starting pitchers.
February 12, 200422 yr reuter does suck Here's a thing on overrated and underrated: These are two entries from the forum I go to, yesnetwork.com, and here are two long assed things I wrote and are putting on my site because I fell like it. Here are some great reads if you like baseball: Overrated/underrated players Overrated: Miguel Tejada: ESPN still thinks he's last year's MVP (last year he wasn't last year's 'MVP') and everyone keeps raving how good he is in the clutch, how good his glove his, and how much power he has. His power dropped off this year, he made 21 errors (as usual), and he chokes in every October. The dude gets on base less than Soriano and somehow Soriano is the anti-christ and Miguel Tejada is a superstar. BS, he is just a good SS with power, so is Jose Valentin, why don't they give him a MVP award then? Barry Zito: A good pitcher, but he seems to be the "face" of the big 3 in Oakland. Sadly Oakland's ace is Tim Hudson, not Zito. Ichiro Suzuki: Has a ton of respect for someone who never lived up to his rookie year, and keeps declining. Another guys who has someone else's MVP award. "Everyday" Eddie Guardado: How the hell did he earn this nickname? He should try pitching 70 innings in a season. He put in a comparable amount of innings this year compared to Chris Hammond, and everyone knows that Torre always avoided using Hammond. Good pitcher, but Guardado is just a ninth inning specialist. Torii Hunter: The dude can play defense, but his offense has a lot to be desired. Rocco Baldelli: People gave this rookie votes because they knew he existed, his season was not really that good at all. He gets on base less than Sori and he strikes out as much. He will improve, but people think HE IS THE DEVIL RAY. It's Aubrey Huff. Sidney Ponson: Fatty II is just overrated by a bit. Nomar Garciaparra: The dude declines more and more every year, still makes a ton of errors, gets on base less than Alfonso "Anti-christ" Soriano. Plus, without Fenway, he bats .240. Derek Lowe: One good season and many still think he's an 'ace'. He is probably just the only pitcher around who pitches better at Fenway compared to the road. Derek Jeter: People hail his defense like he is Omar Vizquel, but come on, he makes the easy plays look hard. He's good at catching pop flies in shallow left field but his defense isn't near gold glove caliber. Out of the 3 big AL short stops, he is easily the worst offensively. (Garciaparra will take that title away from him the way he's declining) In the postseason though, he hits better against the good pitchers than the bad ones. Jeter is the man in October, but overall, still overrated. Hideki Matsui: The dude got on base at a .400 clip in Japan, hit 50 HRs, and he comes here and can't beat a 25 year old short stop in KC as the league's best rookie. He is really just a slap hitter who hits some monster shots once in a while. His defense is better than respected, but he isn't really an impact bat. And as I always say, RBIs are cheap. Mike Piazza: Like the batters on the Yankees, I love the guy, but he hasn't been the same. His power is going away and he can't bat .300 anymore. Plus, I have a stronger arm than him. Possibly only two people in the majors have a weaker throwing arm than Piazza. (Jeff Bagwell and Bernie Williams) He is good defensively behind the plate and can call a good game, but when a catcher doesn't have a hose. Bad things happen. Javier Vazquez: He was touted like he was a god for years, and finally he has one of his "great seasons". He is a good pitcher, but there are dozens better than him. (Probably two to three dozen ) Jimmy Rollins: He sucks, yet he is always an all-star and gets a ton of recognition. The dude can hit like Rey Ordonez... I am still a fan of him anyway though. Kevin Millwood: He's the ace that never puts you over the top. He's a good pitcher, but he is either decent or outstanding, usually just decent. Mike Williams and Jose Mesa: Get these a ssholes out of baseball. Friggin Jeff Weaver looks like a guarenteed thing compared to these bums. Luis Castillo: I don't see what makes a declining second baseman without power so brilliant. He is going to become Roger Cedeno II. Dontrelle Willis: All of us fell in love with him, but after the honeymoon ended (in July) he pitched as good as Weaver. AJ Burnett: He's good, but he always gets hurt before he actually becomes good. Rafael Furcal: Now if he had a glove to go with his arm, he'd be a good defensive short stop. But this dude can botch plays horrifically... Preston Wilson: RBIs aren't everything, he is the latest product from Coors. NEW ONES!: Josh Beckett: the dude is injury prone yet people want to build a team around him. Wade Miller: he's the "ace" that doesn't put up ace numbers, he gets so much credit for nothing. Troy Percival: Just because he closed since, like, forever it doesn't mean he's one of the best at doing it. Armando Benitez: As long as teams want him, he's overrated. He's weird, he can put up great numbers yet frustrate the sh it out of a team and force them out of contention. Underrated: Tim Hudson: He is the ace of the big 3, yet he goes and pitches nearly 240 innings every year unnoticed... Garret Anderson: I'm not such a big fan of the free-swining Anaheim left fielder, but he always puts up good numbers. I bet we all forgot he won that worthless home run derby too. Francisco Rodriguez: He lived up to the hype... He actually did. He is going to be a pain in the a ss until he gets injured. Brandon Donnelly: One of the elite set-up men of the game, another that goes unnoticed. Corey Koskie: How many more great years old the field and the plate does he have to put up to be noticed? He is a free agent next year. He is on my personal check list. (Now if Steinbrenner had my check list) Magglio Ordonez: Man he is such a good hitter, yet no one knows he exists. Jeez. Al Levine: He had a couple of good years yet he is forced to be signed on some real shi tty teams. Al Reyes: He was on my sig for two months, how many more good years until he gets to have a chance? Jody Gerut: His season was nothing short of amazing for a rookie, if he was a Vet it would of been a dependable year. Chris Hammond: Everyone, I mean everyone trashes him. He put two good years up in a row, I guess he's due now for a 17.98 ERA... Or at least that is what people fear. Mariano Rivera: I never thought this would have to be mentioned. He pitched the lowest ERA of his illustrious career during a year when his "stuff wasn't good enough", "wasn't the Rivera he used to be", and had a string of groin problems. He is still the best in the American league, and guess what. Gagne is never making it to October as a Dodger. Bill Mueller: Look at his career numbers, he was always good. Boston just signed him for 3 years and gave him a chance. The poor sucker is only maing 2 million a year. What a tragedy! Mike Timlin: He is always a good setup man. Frank Cattalnatto: He always had a good career BA, what a 'gamble' Toronto took. Jay Gibbons: He isn't outstanding but he puts up good numbers. Aubrey Huff: He is the Devil Rays, and he is a hell of a hitter. Bobby Abbreu: He gets paid like a superstar and few people know this hidden trasure exist. He is a great hitter. I know he has a strong arm but I do not have a full evaluation on him defensively. Jose Vidro: Year after year, he never 'breaks out', but he is always good. Ivan Rodriguez: All the cr ap Texas pitchers made up about him was BS like I suspected. He led the Marlins to victory Paul O'Neill style. (Helmet and bat throwing, screaming in the tunnel, working pitchers then going the other way, and pulling the cra p out of the nice and juicy pitches) Morgan Ensberg: as Michael Kay said, "The best hitter you never heard of" Guillermo Mota: He had a Cy Young worthy season as a setup man to Eric Gagne. Yet, everyone only remembers the Piazza incident. A bunch of other Dodger relievers are underrated too. (Too lazy to mention) Jerome Williams: The Dontrelle Willis no one heard of. Todd Helton: On the road, he is a great batter, at Coors field, he is a god, and on the field he is excellent defensively. He is a very underrated player. Brian Giles: One of the elite hitters in the game up there with Bonds, Pujols, and Rodriguez. Yet, the only Giles we know is named Marcus. Richie Sexson: He strikes out all the time but he jacks a zillion homers without recognition NEW ONES! Mark Mulder: He's the guy in the big 3 people forget, I think he doesn't get enough recognition. Carlos Lee: The dude is one of the AL's best hitters, and hell, even I forgot to put him on the list the first time around! http://www.xanga.com/coreycorner
February 12, 200422 yr Sorianofan, that thing has half the Marlin roster as overrated. Throw it out, man. Being a Yanks fan, you of all people can protest against that. Overrated: C- Lo Duca: People thought he should have been an all-star at mid-season over Ivan Rodriguez. His career batting average is fine, but declining rapidly. 1B- Tino Martinez: Some still view him as the Yanks world series first baseman. Not anymore. 2B- Kaz Matsui: Has never stood in a major league on-deck circle, and is being paid more than Luis Castillo, Jose Vidro and Mark Loretta. SS- Jimmy Rollins: Still has time to mature, and is still a two-time all-star, but his average is just horrible, as are his stolen base totals. 3B- Eric Chavez: Some think he is the best third baseman in the game. Think harder. OF- Hidecki Matsui: Yes, he drove in a ton of runs and had a high batting average, but he didn't perform up to the hype and expectations. OF- Mike Cameron: For some reason Cameron was a big comodity this off-season. He's possibly the best fielding outfielder in the game, but failed to hit .250 and his power totals aren't that impressive, and that won't change at Shea. OF- Johny Damon: I don't know why, but some crazy people name Johny Damon as one of the best lead-off men in baseball I basically wonder why. The man doesn't hit for a high average, doesn't get on base at a high rate, doesn't hit for power, and is not nearly as good a fielder or base stealer as some potray him to be. DH- Tim Salmon: He's had a great, UNDERRATED career, but he's getting all of the hype now, and just isn't living up to his career numbers. SP- Russ Ortiz: Sure, he won 20 games. So what? He walks a ton, and would have never earned 20 wins without that great Brave offense, which no longer exists. SP- Derick Lowe: He had a great, out-of-the-blue 2002. Good for him. He wasn't nearly as impressive in 2003. He still won, but his ERA was a little too big. SP- Kerry Wood: He has amazing, electric stuff. He K's a ton, and has a modest ERA. But Kerry Wood has never won more games than Brad Penny. Period. SP- Barry Zito: His Cy Young got him a ton of attention, and he was great. But his numbers and struggles last season tell me that he was not nearly the same pitcher, and not nearly as good as his counterparts. SP- David Wells: Has a rubber arm and great stuff, and never walks anyone. But David also has an ERA higher than you'd probably believe, and his opp. batting average/WHIP are much higher than you might think. RP- Mike Williams: This man was an all-star in 2003. Go figure. RP- Jose Mesa: His stuff is still fine, but his head is still screwed up. RP- Rocky Biddle: He had a good amount of saves last year, and got a little attention-- but his ERA is still over 4.30. RP- Eddie Guardado: Just like Armando Benitez (except not as electric or in the best environment for him), Guardado simply is not as good as his numbers. He blew some important games for the Twins early and down the stretch. Luckily for them, they're in the AL Central. RP- Ugueth Urbina: He helped lead the Marlins to the World Series. He's got a ring because of it. But Urbina blew alot of games that could have meant a ton more if other teamates didn't pick him up. Underrated: C- Mike Leiberthal: Has always hit well, and you never hear a word about him. 1B- Derrek Lee: Has always hit for a lot of power, and has always gotten on-base at a high rate. Not to mention he's been a gold-glove caliber player since he was a rookie. Although you never hear a word about Derrek, expect that to change after this year. 2B- Mark Loretta: Hit well over .300 last year for the Padres, and should continue hitting well into next year. But don't expect to know about it, because nobody even mentions the deserving Loretta among the best second basemen in the NL. SS- Orlando Cabrera: Coming off a career year, Cabrera is a fantastic player. Hits for average, pop, drives in runs, steals bases and plays gold glove defense. For some reason, you hear people talk about Rafeal Furcal and Jimmy Rollins in the NL East, but never Cabrera and Gonzalez. Well, expect to hear his name a little more often this upcoming season. 3B- Mike Lowell: He had more home runs at the all-star break than half the contestants in teh home-run derby. And for the second year in a row, Mike Lowell fell several MILLION votes shy of a starting job over Scott Rolen to play in Chicago. He also got a double in that game by the way. Lowell proved he was the best offense third baseman in the game last year, and is also considered second only to Rolen defensively. Look for his name to be on the leaderboards for several categories next year. OF- Brian Giles: An all-star several times over, Brian Giles is very possibly the best kept secret in baseball. More know about his brother, several years younger, than him, only because of team status: Brian a Pirate for several years, Marcus a Brave. But now that Brian is in the revived San Diego, you'll here much more about him, I'm sure. OF- Bobby Abreu: An all-star, a great arm and fielder, hits for average, gets on-base at a huge rate, and knocks a few balls out as well. Bobby Abreu is everything you would want in an outfielder. OF- Jay Gibbons: Gibbons posted a 100-rbi season for the Orioles last year, as well as boasting a high home-run total. Gibbons is expected to help charge the Orioles invigorated offense, and mature as a hitter as well. DH- Aubrey Huff: In my opinion, the best kept secret in baseball. Huff hits doubles, homers, knocks in runs, hits for average, the works. Flat out a great player that any team dreams of having on their roster. Too bad he's a Devil Ray. SP- Tim Hudson: One of baseball's top 5 pitchers last year, easily. You just don't hear enough about him. SP- Mark Mulder: Could have won the Cy Young if it weren't for season-ending sugery in late August. Like Hudson, he just isn't heard about nearly enough. SP- Livan Hernandez: Omar Minaya STOLE Hernandez from the Giants last off-season, and ended up with an ace. Hernandez pitched a ton of innings for the Expos last season, and posted some awesome numbers in the process. Still just 27-years-old, Hernandez still has a great career ahead of him. SP- Roy Oswalt: His career ERA is awesome, and he's every bit as good as Kerry Wood. Like A.J. Burnett, injuries have somewhat held back his career, but when he becomes 100% healthy, expect him to be a top 5 starter in the NL. SP- Carlos Zambrano: The Cubs ace that you don't hear about. Wood and Prior are undoubtedly better, but Zambrano could become very close very soon. He has a dominating sinker and an awesome change-up that baffle hitters. The only thing that will hold him back is his emotions on the field. RP- Guillmero Mota: One of, if not the best set-up men in the league last year, and he's known only for the ball he threw at Mike Piazza. You'd think you'd hear more about him, considering the guy after him in the Dodger bullpen is the best reliever in the game, but apparently there isn't enough spotlight for the Dodger bullpen. RP- Rafeal Soriano: "Soriano? Yea I know wo he is. You're not talking about Alfonso? Who else is there, then?." That's the reaction of most when they find out who Rafeal Soriano is. Until you see him pitch against your team, you probably won't appreciate him. RP- Paul Quantrill: Another (former) member of the Dodger bullpen thar didn't get nearly enough spotlight. Quantrill was also one of the best set-up men in the game, and will probably be recognized 10x more now, considering his Yankee status. His ERA was well below 2.00 last season. RP- Kyle Farnsworth: Probably the best reliever the Cubs have in the pen, and at linebacker. He'll be remember for laying out Reds pitcher ? Walker, but make no mistake, Farnsworth is one helluva pitcher. He throws upwards of 96 MPH, and will sometimes hit 100. He'll have a closing job at some point, but for now I guess he'll have to stand behind Joe Borowski. RP- Jason Isringhausen: He was injured for a lot of last season, the reason you never really heard his name, but Isringhausen is one of the best closers in baseball. The Cardinals pitching stuggled mightily while he was gone, and with good reason. He'll have an awesome comeback year in St. Louis.
February 12, 200422 yr How is Gagne overrated? Went from bust to having one of the greatest (if not greatest) seasons EVER for a pitcher. he did not deserve the cy young over schmidt and prior. How many pitchers have been able to do have a streak as long as gagne's? yeah thats what I thought. He deserved it.
February 12, 200422 yr Sorianofan, that thing has half the Marlin roster as overrated. Throw it out, man. Being a Yanks fan, you of all people can protest against that. Overrated is not a measure of ability, it is the measurment of an overassement of ability. All Overrated Team: C. Lo Duca 1B. Nick Johnson 2B Kaz Matsui 3B. Glaus SS. Tejada or Garciaparra OF. Hideki Matsui, Ichiro, Andruw Jones SP. Ortiz, Burnett, Pettitte, Lowe, Pavano RP. Percival Manager. Torre underated: C. Posada or Phillips 1B. Sexson 2B. Loretta 3B. Koskie or Mueller SS. Bordick (retired), Renteria OF. Nixon, Sanders, Edmonds SP. Brown, Hudson, Escobar, Webb, Contreras RP. Hammond/Mota/Donnelly Manager. Tosca Overrated Marlins on the list: Pavano and Burnett Pavano hasn't had a single good season in his career, yet he is considered good. Burnett is heralded as a 20 game winner without winning 20 games. He has had only 1 full season in what's going to be a 6 year career... To say two pitchers is 50% of the marlins is purely dishonest. Two, I being a yankee fan never was confronted with burnett, which leaves one...pavano. His career 4.59 era answers the call.
February 12, 200422 yr Overrated Marlins on the list: Pavano and Burnett Pavano hasn't had a single good season in his career, yet he is considered good. Burnett is heralded as a 20 game winner without winning 20 games.? He has had only 1 full season in what's going to be a 6 year career... To say two pitchers is 50% of the marlins is purely dishonest.? Two, I being a yankee fan never was confronted with burnett, which leaves one...pavano.? His career 4.59 era answers the call. sucking/being average is not the same as being overrated. carl pavano is an average sort of pitcher, and he is regarded as such by most people (though you might get the wrong impression since the opinions you've read are on a marlins message board). similarly, aj burnett isn't that well known apart from his no-hitter. any guy who's barely known is certainly not overrated. again, a lot of the burnett hype you hear is from marlins fans. off the top of my head, i can think of at least another 3 very overrated pitchers you didn't even mention. Sorianofan, that thing has half the Marlin roster as overrated. Throw it out, man. Being a Yanks fan, you of all people can protest against that. wild card was referring to the overrated/underrated list you quoted. any overrated list that includes guys like beckett and burnett but not andy pettitte is far from unbiased. wild card was just pointing out how the list was from the point of view of a biased yankee fan, and it's littered with biased assessments/omissions of bosox & marlins players. there's nothing inherently wrong with being biased for your own team, so i personally don't mind looking at their opinions.... but the #2 most highly touted reliever in all of baseball sure aint underrated.
February 12, 200422 yr Sorianofan, that thing has half the Marlin roster as overrated. Throw it out, man. Being a Yanks fan, you of all people can protest against that. Overrated is not a measure of ability, it is the measurment of an overassement of ability. All Overrated Team: C. Lo Duca 1B. Nick Johnson 2B Kaz Matsui 3B. Glaus SS. Tejada or Garciaparra OF. Hideki Matsui, Ichiro, Andruw Jones SP. Ortiz, Burnett, Pettitte, Lowe, Pavano RP. Percival Manager. Torre underated: C. Posada or Phillips 1B. Sexson 2B. Loretta 3B. Koskie or Mueller SS. Bordick (retired), Renteria OF. Nixon, Sanders, Edmonds SP. Brown, Hudson, Escobar, Webb, Contreras RP. Hammond/Mota/Donnelly Manager. Tosca Overrated Marlins on the list: Pavano and Burnett Pavano hasn't had a single good season in his career, yet he is considered good. Burnett is heralded as a 20 game winner without winning 20 games. He has had only 1 full season in what's going to be a 6 year career... To say two pitchers is 50% of the marlins is purely dishonest. Two, I being a yankee fan never was confronted with burnett, which leaves one...pavano. His career 4.59 era answers the call. Make sure you add Jeter to that top list. . .
February 12, 200422 yr Why is Kaz Matsui overrated? He hasnt played a major leauge game yet. -that's why -jeter's defense is overrated, his offense is not. he's a good offensive shortstop and because everyone turned against him, he's not overrated. sucking/being average is not the same as being overrated. carl pavano is an average sort of pitcher, and he is regarded as such by most people (though you might get the wrong impression since the opinions you've read are on a marlins message board). similarly, aj burnett isn't that well known apart from his no-hitter. any guy who's barely known is certainly not overrated. again, a lot of the burnett hype you hear is from marlins fans. off the top of my head, i can think of at least another 3 very overrated pitchers you didn't even mention. Pavano is being considered good by people and ESPN...that makes him overrated. Burnett is known. they keep talking about how he's a bonafide ace. wild card was referring to the overrated/underrated list you quoted. any overrated list that includes guys like beckett and burnett but not andy pettitte is far from unbiased. wild card was just pointing out how the list was from the point of view of a biased yankee fan, and it's littered with biased assessments/omissions of bosox & marlins players. there's nothing inherently wrong with being biased for your own team, so i personally don't mind looking at their opinions.... but the #2 most highly touted reliever in all of baseball sure aint underrated. Who's the highest touted releiver? Hammond? Mota? Donnelly? None of them. And I named a total of 1 1/2 red sox as overrated. I named 3 2003 yankees as overrated and a met. What bias? I disagree with you, you are definitely wrong.
February 12, 200422 yr Sorianofan, that thing has half the Marlin roster as overrated. Throw it out, man. Being a Yanks fan, you of all people can protest against that. Overrated is not a measure of ability, it is the measurment of an overassement of ability. All Overrated Team: C. Lo Duca 1B. Nick Johnson 2B Kaz Matsui 3B. Glaus SS. Tejada or Garciaparra OF. Hideki Matsui, Ichiro, Andruw Jones SP. Ortiz, Burnett, Pettitte, Lowe, Pavano RP. Percival Manager. Torre underated: C. Posada or Phillips 1B. Sexson 2B. Loretta 3B. Koskie or Mueller SS. Bordick (retired), Renteria OF. Nixon, Sanders, Edmonds SP. Brown, Hudson, Escobar, Webb, Contreras RP. Hammond/Mota/Donnelly Manager. Tosca Overrated Marlins on the list: Pavano and Burnett Pavano hasn't had a single good season in his career, yet he is considered good. Burnett is heralded as a 20 game winner without winning 20 games. He has had only 1 full season in what's going to be a 6 year career... To say two pitchers is 50% of the marlins is purely dishonest. Two, I being a yankee fan never was confronted with burnett, which leaves one...pavano. His career 4.59 era answers the call. How is Posada underrated? All Star selection, considered by most the best AL Catcher, I think he is the best catcher in MLB at the moment
February 12, 200422 yr So everyone sees it updated: Overrated: C- Lo Duca: People thought he should have been an all-star at mid-season over Ivan Rodriguez. His career batting average is fine, but declining rapidly. 1B- Tino Martinez: Some still view him as the Yanks world series first baseman. Not anymore. 2B- Kaz Matsui: Has never stood in a major league on-deck circle, and is being paid more than Luis Castillo, Jose Vidro and Mark Loretta. SS- Jimmy Rollins: Still has time to mature, and is still a two-time all-star, but his average is just horrible, as are his stolen base totals. 3B- Eric Chavez: Some think he is the best third baseman in the game. Think harder. OF- Hidecki Matsui: Yes, he drove in a ton of runs and had a high batting average, but he didn't perform up to the hype and expectations. OF- Mike Cameron: For some reason Cameron was a big comodity this off-season. He's possibly the best fielding outfielder in the game, but failed to hit .250 and his power totals aren't that impressive, and that won't change at Shea. OF- Johny Damon: I don't know why, but some crazy people name Johny Damon as one of the best lead-off men in baseball I basically wonder why. The man doesn't hit for a high average, doesn't get on base at a high rate, doesn't hit for power, and is not nearly as good a fielder or base stealer as some potray him to be. DH- Tim Salmon: He's had a great, UNDERRATED career, but he's getting all of the hype now, and just isn't living up to his career numbers. SP- Russ Ortiz: Sure, he won 20 games. So what? He walks a ton, and would have never earned 20 wins without that great Brave offense, which no longer exists. SP- Derick Lowe: He had a great, out-of-the-blue 2002. Good for him. He wasn't nearly as impressive in 2003. He still won, but his ERA was a little too big. SP- Kerry Wood: He has amazing, electric stuff. He K's a ton, and has a modest ERA. But Kerry Wood has never won more games than Brad Penny. Period. SP- Barry Zito: His Cy Young got him a ton of attention, and he was great. But his numbers and struggles last season tell me that he was not nearly the same pitcher, and not nearly as good as his counterparts. SP- David Wells: Has a rubber arm and great stuff, and never walks anyone. But David also has an ERA higher than you'd probably believe, and his opp. batting average/WHIP are much higher than you might think. RP- Mike Williams: This man was an all-star in 2003. Go figure. RP- Jose Mesa: His stuff is still fine, but his head is still screwed up. RP- Rocky Biddle: He had a good amount of saves last year, and got a little attention-- but his ERA is still over 4.30. RP- Eddie Guardado: Just like Armando Benitez (except not as electric or in the best environment for him), Guardado simply is not as good as his numbers. He blew some important games for the Twins early and down the stretch. Luckily for them, they're in the AL Central. RP- Ugueth Urbina: He helped lead the Marlins to the World Series. He's got a ring because of it. But Urbina blew alot of games that could have meant a ton more if other teamates didn't pick him up. Underrated: C- Mike Leiberthal: Has always hit well, and you never hear a word about him. 1B- Derrek Lee: Has always hit for a lot of power, and has always gotten on-base at a high rate. Not to mention he's been a gold-glove caliber player since he was a rookie. Although you never hear a word about Derrek, expect that to change after this year. 2B- Mark Loretta: Hit well over .300 last year for the Padres, and should continue hitting well into next year. But don't expect to know about it, because nobody even mentions the deserving Loretta among the best second basemen in the NL. SS- Orlando Cabrera: Coming off a career year, Cabrera is a fantastic player. Hits for average, pop, drives in runs, steals bases and plays gold glove defense. For some reason, you hear people talk about Rafeal Furcal and Jimmy Rollins in the NL East, but never Cabrera and Gonzalez. Well, expect to hear his name a little more often this upcoming season. 3B- Mike Lowell: He had more home runs at the all-star break than half the contestants in teh home-run derby. And for the second year in a row, Mike Lowell fell several MILLION votes shy of a starting job over Scott Rolen to play in Chicago. He also got a double in that game by the way. Lowell proved he was the best offense third baseman in the game last year, and is also considered second only to Rolen defensively. Look for his name to be on the leaderboards for several categories next year. OF- Brian Giles: An all-star several times over, Brian Giles is very possibly the best kept secret in baseball. More know about his brother, several years younger, than him, only because of team status: Brian a Pirate for several years, Marcus a Brave. But now that Brian is in the revived San Diego, you'll here much more about him, I'm sure. OF- Bobby Abreu: An all-star, a great arm and fielder, hits for average, gets on-base at a huge rate, and knocks a few balls out as well. Bobby Abreu is everything you would want in an outfielder. OF- Jay Gibbons: Gibbons posted a 100-rbi season for the Orioles last year, as well as boasting a high home-run total. Gibbons is expected to help charge the Orioles invigorated offense, and mature as a hitter as well. DH- Aubrey Huff: In my opinion, the best kept secret in baseball. Huff hits doubles, homers, knocks in runs, hits for average, the works. Flat out a great player that any team dreams of having on their roster. Too bad he's a Devil Ray. SP- Tim Hudson: One of baseball's top 5 pitchers last year, easily. You just don't hear enough about him. SP- Mark Mulder: Could have won the Cy Young if it weren't for season-ending sugery in late August. Like Hudson, he just isn't heard about nearly enough. SP- Livan Hernandez: Omar Minaya STOLE Hernandez from the Giants last off-season, and ended up with an ace. Hernandez pitched a ton of innings for the Expos last season, and posted some awesome numbers in the process. Still just 27-years-old, Hernandez still has a great career ahead of him. SP- Roy Oswalt: His career ERA is awesome, and he's every bit as good as Kerry Wood. Like A.J. Burnett, injuries have somewhat held back his career, but when he becomes 100% healthy, expect him to be a top 5 starter in the NL. SP- Carlos Zambrano: The Cubs ace that you don't hear about. Wood and Prior are undoubtedly better, but Zambrano could become very close very soon. He has a dominating sinker and an awesome change-up that baffle hitters. The only thing that will hold him back is his emotions on the field. RP- Guillmero Mota: One of, if not the best set-up men in the league last year, and he's known only for the ball he threw at Mike Piazza. You'd think you'd hear more about him, considering the guy after him in the Dodger bullpen is the best reliever in the game, but apparently there isn't enough spotlight for the Dodger bullpen. RP- Rafeal Soriano: "Soriano? Yea I know wo he is. You're not talking about Alfonso? Who else is there, then?." That's the reaction of most when they find out who Rafeal Soriano is. Until you see him pitch against your team, you probably won't appreciate him. RP- Paul Quantrill: Another (former) member of the Dodger bullpen thar didn't get nearly enough spotlight. Quantrill was also one of the best set-up men in the game, and will probably be recognized 10x more now, considering his Yankee status. His ERA was well below 2.00 last season. RP- Kyle Farnsworth: Probably the best reliever the Cubs have in the pen, and at linebacker. He'll be remember for laying out Reds pitcher ? Walker, but make no mistake, Farnsworth is one helluva pitcher. He throws upwards of 96 MPH, and will sometimes hit 100. He'll have a closing job at some point, but for now I guess he'll have to stand behind Joe Borowski. RP- Jason Isringhausen: He was injured for a lot of last season, the reason you never really heard his name, but Isringhausen is one of the best closers in baseball. The Cardinals pitching stuggled mightily while he was gone, and with good reason. He'll have an awesome comeback year in St. Louis.
February 12, 200422 yr Sorianofan, that thing has half the Marlin roster as overrated. Throw it out, man. Being a Yanks fan, you of all people can protest against that. Overrated is not a measure of ability, it is the measurment of an overassement of ability. All Overrated Team: C. Lo Duca 1B. Nick Johnson 2B Kaz Matsui 3B. Glaus SS. Tejada or Garciaparra OF. Hideki Matsui, Ichiro, Andruw Jones SP. Ortiz, Burnett, Pettitte, Lowe, Pavano RP. Percival Manager. Torre underated: C. Posada or Phillips 1B. Sexson 2B. Loretta 3B. Koskie or Mueller SS. Bordick (retired), Renteria OF. Nixon, Sanders, Edmonds SP. Brown, Hudson, Escobar, Webb, Contreras RP. Hammond/Mota/Donnelly Manager. Tosca Overrated Marlins on the list: Pavano and Burnett Pavano hasn't had a single good season in his career, yet he is considered good. Burnett is heralded as a 20 game winner without winning 20 games. He has had only 1 full season in what's going to be a 6 year career... To say two pitchers is 50% of the marlins is purely dishonest. Two, I being a yankee fan never was confronted with burnett, which leaves one...pavano. His career 4.59 era answers the call. How is Posada underrated? All Star selection, considered by most the best AL Catcher, I think he is the best catcher in MLB at the moment
February 12, 200422 yr I concede, Posada is a bad choice (a lot of red sox fans and some others think varitek is better, but that shouldn't alter my opinion.) So I change it, I'm going with Phillips/Lieberthal.
February 12, 200422 yr 3B- Eric Chavez: Some think he is the best third baseman in the game. Think harder. SP- Kerry Wood: He has amazing, electric stuff. He K's a ton, and has a modest ERA. But Kerry Wood has never won more games than Brad Penny. Period. SP- Barry Zito: His Cy Young got him a ton of attention, and he was great. But his numbers and struggles last season tell me that he was not nearly the same pitcher, and not nearly as good as his counterparts. Underrated: 1B- Derrek Lee: Has always hit for a lot of power, and has always gotten on-base at a high rate. Not to mention he's been a gold-glove caliber player since he was a rookie. Although you never hear a word about Derrek, expect that to change after this year. 3B- Mike Lowell: He had more home runs at the all-star break than half the contestants in teh home-run derby. And for the second year in a row, Mike Lowell fell several MILLION votes shy of a starting job over Scott Rolen to play in Chicago. He also got a double in that game by the way. Lowell proved he was the best offense third baseman in the game last year, and is also considered second only to Rolen defensively. Look for his name to be on the leaderboards for several categories next year. wow some thoughts check Mike Lowell's stats(not just this year).... sorry Chavez is better I dont think Kerry is overrated.... he is neither(same goes for Mike Lowell being underrated) Zito had a bad year, but he is till one of the better pitchers in baseball DLee is not UNDERRATED, he is overrated and let me add on the underrated list Maggs Ordonez
February 12, 200422 yr Explanations for my picks: C. Lo Duca He's considered a "good hitter", but his .712 ops, .036 WORSE than average makes him a BELOW average catcher. 1B. Nick Johnson No one has a bad thing to say about this guy. He gets on base, he has some pop, he goes the other way, and he hits for some average. However, this man is definitely an anti-clutch. It is hard to show this with numbers, but I can try, but let me assure you I have watched/listened to every major league game he has played in. He simply doesn't drive in runs and he Ks out whenever it matters. His postseason hitting is poor, a .602 ops, but granted that's not a lot of at bats. However, with RISP his ops is .886, .008 less than his overall statistics. However, he simply HITS less. He hit ten points lower with RISP, and hitting with runners on drives in runs, instead of walking and setting up the double play. There's nothing with walking, but he simply doesn't EVER drive in runs. He averages .119 RBIs per plate appearance. Granted, rBI is a flawed statistic, but with NJ its vital. He usually batted second, sixth, or eigth in the lineup. Raul mondesi averages .122 RBIs, and he's another celebrated anti-clutch. However, Jeter who's not considered anti-clutch had a worse ratio in 2003. Its hard to quantify, but Johnson is simply not the guy who's going to win games when he Ks when it matters. 2B Jeff Kent He's considered a HOFer, but once Bonds protections goes away his power numbers get cut in half. (I did have kaz here, but he'll be playing SS) 3B. Glaus He's considered "good." However his ops has been dropping every year and he's riddled with injury. SS. Tejada or Garciaparra or Kaz Matsui Garciaparra's ops away from fenway is in the .600s. Tejada was and never will be MVP caliber, and Kaz Matsui had a bad obp and 130 Ks in JAPAN...it scares me to think how bad he will be here. OF. Hideki Matsui, Ichiro, Andruw Jones Matsui is a double play extraordinare with no pop, Ichiro has no obp and his considered MVP caliber though he really isn't, and Andruw Jones obp is dropping and is getting considerbly slower in the outfield. SP. Ortiz, Burnett, Pettitte, Lowe, Pavano High eras, but all are considered to be good pitchers in 2004. Burnett might not fit this category, but he has had only 1 full season in a 6 year career. RP. Percival He had a 3.47 era and his bullpen partners are better than him, yet people say "HOFer" when they mention his name...should not be the case. Manager. Torre This man literally loses games...give me a team with a 167 million dollar payroll before luxury tax and I assure you a division championship. underated: C. Lieberthal or Phillips Pop off the bats, good obp for catchers and put the bat on the ball. 1B. Sexson Hits an absurd amount of homers every year. He'll be ina rizona in 2004 so watch out. 50 homers? Why not 60! 2B. Loretta Always was a good player...but who knows of loretta? 3B. Koskie or Mueller Good on base guys, Mueller finally getting his due, but not yet for koskie. SS. Bordick (retired), Renteria If you say the name "edgar Renteria" people don't think about the guy who is in contention for the batting title. He's great defensively and has a great bat. Bordick is another guy who's so good with the glove he doesn't get the credit he deserves...he has the 2nd best career fld% for a SS in HISTORY. OF. Nixon, Sanders, Edmonds Nixon had the 4th best ops in the AL I believe. Reggie sanders hits 30 homers a year, and Edmonds is "done" after having over a 1.000 ops. SP. Brown, Hudson, Escobar, Webb, Contreras Brown and Hudson are among the very best in baseball, Webb can definitely be there yet he didn't win rookie of the year (he was snubbed), Kelvim Escobar has great stuff and his statistics starting away from turf are great, and Contreras has been great as a starter. RP. Hammond/Mota/Donnelly People think hammond has a 5 era when he had one of the lowest eras in history followed by a 2.86 era the next season. Mota had a 96 Mariano Riveraesque season, and Donnelly has been nothing but absurdely good for 2 years. Manager. Tosca This man never bunts, almost never steals...the blue jays had the 3rd best offense in the majors I beleive.
February 13, 200422 yr wild card was referring to the overrated/underrated list you quoted. any overrated list that includes guys like beckett and burnett but not andy pettitte is far from unbiased. wild card was just pointing out how the list was from the point of view of a biased yankee fan, and it's littered with biased assessments/omissions of bosox & marlins players. there's nothing inherently wrong with being biased for your own team, so i personally don't mind looking at their opinions.... but the #2 most highly touted reliever in all of baseball sure aint underrated. Who's the highest touted releiver? Hammond? Mota? Donnelly? None of them. And I named a total of 1 1/2 red sox as overrated. I named 3 2003 yankees as overrated and a met. What bias? I disagree with you, you are definitely wrong. both wild card and i were commenting specifically on the yesnetwork post you pasted, which is clearly biased. among other things, it fails to list andy pettitte as overrated. oh, and the #1 most hyped reliever in baseball is gagne. #2 is rivera. both are great, but neither is underrated.
February 13, 200422 yr I didn't right that post, it's someone elses opinion. My brother did, I'm surprised he didn't list andy pettitte because we both think he is overrated. And if you watch espn and or the NY media the constantly say rivera "is done" and he just had the lowest era of his career and a great postseason.
February 14, 200422 yr Phlub's all overrated team... Eddie Guardado Eddie Guardado Eddie Guardado Phlub's all underrated team... Doug Mienkietwicz Doug Mienkietwicz Doug Mienkietwicz
February 14, 200422 yr overated team C- Mike Piazza 1st- Jason Giambi 2nd- Luis Castillo SS- Derek Jeter 3rd- Scott Rolen OF- Torii Hunter, Hideki Matsui, Pat Burell SP- Russ Ortiz, Andy Petitte, Dontrelle Willis, Freddy Garcia, Ramon Ortiz, Kirk Rueter C- Everyday Eddie Underated team C- Varitek 1st- Aubrey Huff 2nd- Alfonso Soriano 3rd- Mike Lowell SS- Orlando Cabrera OF- Giles, Bobby Abreu, Chipper Jones SP- Halladay, Livan Hernandez, Bartolo Colon, Odalis Perez, Roy Oswalt C- Gagne
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