marlins161

http://www.forbes.com/2005/04/06/05mlbland.html Look at the statistics how you wish. But Forbes says the Marlins made 3M (in 2004) before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization. Yep, you really proved a point. You don't even know what any of these numbers mean. Your smoking gun info of proof says the Yankees are LOSING 37 mil and the Marlins are WAY up there with 3 mil. By your logic Tampa Bay is one of the richest teams in the league, with 27 mil in profits. Wow, why would Namoli sell off this cash cow? Thanks for this valuable piece of indisputable evidence. It is so clear how you absolutely proved your point. The Brewers are yet another high revenue team by your calculations. Red Sox are drowning in money. Great post. LOL Olsen made 4 starts: 6/25 vs TB: 5.2 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 7 K 7/4 vs Mil: 5.2 IP, 6 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 0 HR, 3 BB, 8 K 7/9 vs Chi: 6.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 4 K 7/16 @ Phi: 1.2 IP, 5 H, 6 R, 3 ER, 2 HR, 1 BB, 1 K So, where are you getting he was inconsistent from? He was really good in 3 of his 4 starts, in the 4th he went where Marlins pitchers go to die, Citizens Bank Park and got roughed up...not uncommon for our pitchers this season. Without breaking down his numbers, he did relieve some. But he gave up 11 runs in 18 innings (seven earned). Decent, not great. Since by your logic he is so great, then either McKeon or Beinfest are blundering idiots for sending him down. If you think Olsen has proved something, terrific. Often a young pitcher will have a couple of decent outings because the league hasn't figured them out. Scott Olsen isn't the left-handed version of Felix Hernandez. Olsen has some potential, and he's now had an injured elbow. So if you think he is a risk free pitcher, more power to you. Besides those games, he only had 1 relief appearance...a 1.1 IP 2 ER performance against Atlanta. You really have no clue. I told you when I responded that I didn't have Olsen's numbers in front of me. It wouldn't have been too difficult to look up. As I noted, if Olsen was so lights out then either McKeon or Beinfest or both have no clue in evaluating talent because HE WAS DEMOTED after that dreadful performance in Philly. You think if the team felt that was just one bad outing, and it was easy to brush off, they wouldn't have done so? Instead they gave Olsen's spot to Valdez and they kept Vargas. You seem to have a keener eye for talent than the front office and coaches and manager. Because someone has a different opinion, another thread goes down the drain? 03 you were one of those saying no way Delgado was being shopped. So basically when your opinion is proven wrong, there is no room for dialogue? There's a difference between constructively carrying on a conversation and ridiculously and unnecessarily taking a contrary attitude to every statement made in response to your posts, and you, my irrational rookie, are doing the latter. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, even one as misguided and unsubstantiated as yours, but under no circumstances are any of us required to agree with your chicken little theory because history with Jeffrey Loria tells us that the sky has been rumored to be falling for 5 years now, and it's yet to happen. But thanks for letting us know, definitively, that it's happening this offseason. :thumbup Misguided? Seems that link on attendance I posted PROVED 100 percent about the dreadful attendance here, where I was questioned for saying the team was last in the NL and third to last in ALL OF BASEBALL. None of you respond to that. Misguided? Loria has been here four years, this is his fifth. He made bold promises in Montreal, look where that franchise is now. Sure I give Loria credit for trying to make it work here. He has tried. The market hasn't supported him. Season tickets aren't up. And for argument sake, say they are. Well up how much? From 10,000 to 11,000? That's still a joke. When the Marlins were playing meaningful games in early Sept, the crowds were disappointing. By your claims that all is well, then why even look for a new stadium? Everything is hunkydory right here. This ownership group has a history of failure when it comes to the business side of the sport. They failed, business wise, in Montreal. They are losing money here. Forget your feelings for my posts, you think that if there was so much financial momentum around this team that the local politicans wouldn't seize on it and quickly build the Marlins a stadium because it is a win-win situation? In the end we will see who is right. I hope you guys are because I want nothing but success for the team. Being a blind loyalist doesn't make your opinions value. Facts are showing this franchise is very close to firesale. Even today's paper, and I know none of you believe the papers because they are all out to get the Marlins, Selig told reporters that the Marlins need a new stadium to make it work down here. You probably dismiss that as a lie since it was in the paper.

Because someone has a different opinion, another thread goes down the drain? 03 you were one of those saying no way Delgado was being shopped. So basically when your opinion is proven wrong, there is no room for dialogue?

I said a few months ago that I would really like to see Loria take a mulligan on this season with a different coaching staff and same lineup and I'd be quite confident we make the playoffs, even win the division. The only problem is he can't do it for the same payroll as a few guys are now FAs or arby eligible and due significant pay raises (considering Delgado's raise = Hampton payment). So clearly a few changes would have to be made just to keep the same payroll. Payroll savings from the departure of guys like Leiter, Encarnacion, AJ and Mecir pretty much offset the raises for Willis, Beckett, Pierre, Castillo, Jones etc. In my estimation the team can maintain about the same payroll by either signing Moehler as the #3 starter for around 750K (plus using Vargas and a rookie), or jettisoning the Lowell contract and spending on a higher level FA starter. If we need to trim payroll to around $60M, then jettison Lowell and keep Moehler. We can always trade for a quality starter before the trading deadline if we are in the race. If the team feels it has to cut further then I can see where consideration of Pierre or Castillo would come in, and replacing Alex with a less expensive alternative. But I really don't see why Loria would be compelled to do this. Revenues will be up next year. Season ticket sales are well above what they were at this time last year, including a rise in prices. TV and radio revenues are up. Interest in the club continues to climb. There may have been a bump in the road last year with the team underperforming badly, and not making the playoffs as a result. Not finalizing the stadium deal was disappointing as well. But my suggestion to Loria would be to stay the course. Let the market and interest in the team continue to grow. They are on the right path, so no need to take steps backwards right now. This team has the lowest attendance in the league and you act like they are rolling in money. Season ticket sales are not WAY up. Sorry, but you are flat out wrong. There is no stadium deal. That was the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. That is gone now. You keep saying how revenue is up, it isn't. And if it were up, for argument sake, Loria still is losing about 20 mil a year. Corporate sponsorships are NOT up. I don't know how you do your finances, but I want you as my accountant. You are finding all kinds of money that isn't there. And you are spewing all kinds of comments with no basis in fact. How do you know Loria lost $20M last year? How do you know season ticket sales are not ahead of last year when renewals are already at 90%. How do you know revenues won't be up next year when TV ratings are at an all time high and ticket prices have gone up 15-25%? How do you know we were last in attendance in the league? You are wrong on all accounts and talking out of your a$$. FYI, I am correct on every account, and I don't use profanity to make my point unlike you. Check out this link and you will see the Marlins rank last in the NL in attendance and third to last in all of baseball. check out this link below. As for Loria, I read up on this stuff. Get Sports Business Weekly, and you will see how he is losing about 20 mil a year. Again, don't believe me, believe your rep. And 90 percent season ticket renewals, that's 9,000 season tickets. You think that's good? That justifies a payroll of 65 mil The comparison to the Yankees attendance shows how shameful this market has been. Three years of Marlins attendances isn't even 1 mil more than one year of the Yankees. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/attendance

I said a few months ago that I would really like to see Loria take a mulligan on this season with a different coaching staff and same lineup and I'd be quite confident we make the playoffs, even win the division. The only problem is he can't do it for the same payroll as a few guys are now FAs or arby eligible and due significant pay raises (considering Delgado's raise = Hampton payment). So clearly a few changes would have to be made just to keep the same payroll. Payroll savings from the departure of guys like Leiter, Encarnacion, AJ and Mecir pretty much offset the raises for Willis, Beckett, Pierre, Castillo, Jones etc. In my estimation the team can maintain about the same payroll by either signing Moehler as the #3 starter for around 750K (plus using Vargas and a rookie), or jettisoning the Lowell contract and spending on a higher level FA starter. If we need to trim payroll to around $60M, then jettison Lowell and keep Moehler. We can always trade for a quality starter before the trading deadline if we are in the race. If the team feels it has to cut further then I can see where consideration of Pierre or Castillo would come in, and replacing Alex with a less expensive alternative. But I really don't see why Loria would be compelled to do this. Revenues will be up next year. Season ticket sales are well above what they were at this time last year, including a rise in prices. TV and radio revenues are up. Interest in the club continues to climb. There may have been a bump in the road last year with the team underperforming badly, and not making the playoffs as a result. Not finalizing the stadium deal was disappointing as well. But my suggestion to Loria would be to stay the course. Let the market and interest in the team continue to grow. They are on the right path, so no need to take steps backwards right now. This team has the lowest attendance in the league and you act like they are rolling in money. Season ticket sales are not WAY up. Sorry, but you are flat out wrong. There is no stadium deal. That was the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. That is gone now. You keep saying how revenue is up, it isn't. And if it were up, for argument sake, Loria still is losing about 20 mil a year. Corporate sponsorships are NOT up. I don't know how you do your finances, but I want you as my accountant. You are finding all kinds of money that isn't there. I think extremist thinking is unwise. There is no way that Loria has a firesale, and there's no way he can afford to keep 100% of the team together. Expect to see a team for '06 that will be on paper good enough to compete for a playoff spot, but it will require luck to get there. Anything more will simply be an unexpected surprise, and anything less will be a severe disappointment given the planned prices for next year. This year's team was good enough to compete for a playoff spot. Being realistic, this club was last in the NL in attendance, and season tickets were about 10,000 and Loria lost a ton of money. So with poor season tickets, the lowest attendance in the league and third lowest in all of baseball, why is Loria justified to keep payroll anywhere near what it was. This team will be lucky to win 75 games, and I don't even know who will be on the club. Everyone is fair game. Plus we have a manager who has never managed and for some unexplained reason, we can't even hire coaches. I wonder if all the coaching candidates have heard this place is not the place to be. In the nicest way possible, you're being irrational. Season ticket holders were forced to renew in full for '06 on September 1 of '05, I know because I'm a season ticket-holder. According to my rep, the system attained the results the Marlins were looking for, meaning renewals were high (he said close to 90%). Factor in the fact that prices are increasing by an average of about 15% (my seats went up 25%, thanks to "MVP" pricing), and revenue will be higher even if attendance is constant or decreased (I mean, it can't realistically go much lower). Also, the Marlins' ratings were at an all time high, meaning higher prices for advertising time, I don't get involved in trying to understand the corporate financing end of this thing, but I know that we can't do a whole lot worse than we did this year, so I see no reason to expect the bottom to all of a sudden fall out of the cash flow, is it high? No, but it won't get worse. And that's the theme of this team (it always has been since Loria got here). Well those renewals are about to lose me, and I have already renewed. You can believe your team rep. TV ratings? This isn't Steinbrenner's TV deal. It's measly. Loria is losing about 20 mil a year, that's the bottom line. There is no bright future because of the stadium fiasco. We can differ on this, and you seem headstrong to believe ad rates are going to be way up and attendance will skyrocket. Again, attendance was LAST in the NL. Over the last three years, we've had attendance of 1.3 mil (in a World Series year), 1.8 and 1.8 after compiling the richest roster in team history. That's about 5.1 mil fans over three years. The Yankees in 2005 drew well over 4 million. The Yankees alone almost equaled three years of Marlins attendance. The sport isn't growing here. Attendance is very poor, and so is revenue. It's sad that Tampa Bay is a better situation than us. They at least have a stadium and new ownership and a minor league system with some real prospects.

Olsen made 4 starts: 6/25 vs TB: 5.2 IP, 4 H, 2 R, 1 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 7 K 7/4 vs Mil: 5.2 IP, 6 H, 2 R, 2 ER, 0 HR, 3 BB, 8 K 7/9 vs Chi: 6.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 HR, 3 BB, 4 K 7/16 @ Phi: 1.2 IP, 5 H, 6 R, 3 ER, 2 HR, 1 BB, 1 K So, where are you getting he was inconsistent from? He was really good in 3 of his 4 starts, in the 4th he went where Marlins pitchers go to die, Citizens Bank Park and got roughed up...not uncommon for our pitchers this season. Without breaking down his numbers, he did relieve some. But he gave up 11 runs in 18 innings (seven earned). Decent, not great. Since by your logic he is so great, then either McKeon or Beinfest are blundering idiots for sending him down. If you think Olsen has proved something, terrific. Often a young pitcher will have a couple of decent outings because the league hasn't figured them out. Scott Olsen isn't the left-handed version of Felix Hernandez. Olsen has some potential, and he's now had an injured elbow. So if you think he is a risk free pitcher, more power to you. What I think Sloane was doing in holding his press conference was saying "...hey we don't want to be traded and we certainly don't want to be the LAST ONE traded". There's no question that the Marlins are going to look markedly different than '05. Whether they are better or worse at the end of the season remains to be seen. No one can say definitively how the season will play out, not me, not Swift, not 161, no one. It may be that an injection of youth is just what this team needs. Or it may be an ugly year. What's being ignored is who we might get in return for some of the players who are moved and who we'll acquire with the $$$ freed up by moving certain players. It's not all the doom and gloom some would paint. All I know is I'll be there for another fifty games and I'll cheer just as hard whether Castillo or Gonzo or Delgado is there or not. As a Saturday season ticket holder the past four years, all I know is, if they trade Delgado and don't get markedly better, then I am cancelling. Several of my friends have expressed similar complaints. It's nice to get younger. I don't trust that this front office has compiled the farm system of say, the Braves. Of all the pitchers sent up by the FO last season, the last one was Vargas. He turned out to be the best of the batch. Makes you wonder about the talent evaluators in the organization. There are no Dayton Moore's in this organization.

I think extremist thinking is unwise. There is no way that Loria has a firesale, and there's no way he can afford to keep 100% of the team together. Expect to see a team for '06 that will be on paper good enough to compete for a playoff spot, but it will require luck to get there. Anything more will simply be an unexpected surprise, and anything less will be a severe disappointment given the planned prices for next year. This year's team was good enough to compete for a playoff spot. Being realistic, this club was last in the NL in attendance, and season tickets were about 10,000 and Loria lost a ton of money. So with poor season tickets, the lowest attendance in the league and third lowest in all of baseball, why is Loria justified to keep payroll anywhere near what it was. This team will be lucky to win 75 games, and I don't even know who will be on the club. Everyone is fair game. Plus we have a manager who has never managed and for some unexplained reason, we can't even hire coaches. I wonder if all the coaching candidates have heard this place is not the place to be.

So since a journalist writes something, be it fact or not(baseball writers in SoFla are usually biased against the Fish and report totally false things), you take it as fact and say it is canon. Olsen was not incosistent, he was very good until he went to Philadelphia, where all of our pitchers were mauled this season. And if you were not calling the pitchers behind Beckett scrubs but the team, Lo Duca, Delgado, Castillo, Cabrera, Pierre, Conine, and Hermida are all scrubs? Spike, simple question, you think Delgado is happy with the Marlins now? Secondly, what do you believe that is in the papers? Nothing? So if it is reported that several teams have been informed Delgado is available, that is all a lie. You believe that David Sloane had a conference call? Did the quotes from Delgado sound like a guy convinced that he is staying? As for Olsen, puhleeze. If he was so lights out he wouldn't have been demoted back to Carolina. Also he got hurt. He absolutely was inconsistent. Not a knock because it was his first experience with the Marlins. He is a two pitch pitcher right now. He has a decent fastball and a slider. Let me ask you, how many wins do you predict Olsen will have next season? The scrubs is pretty self explanatory. Delgado and Pierre and maybe Lo Duca will all be gone. Lowell is expected to be gone. Hermida has promise, he hasn't done anything yet. Having a couple of big hits is nice, but it's hardly a guarantee he will be successful over a full season. I think Hermida has great potential, but when you bank on guys like him to produce right away, it often backfires. Wait and see who is right.

Huh Marlins161? What indications are there that this is a firesale? And what inside info do you have that the Marlins have no intention of honoring Delgado's contract? Please enlighten us. That, or stop being a troll. A troll? For not drinking the koolade you and some of your friends are drinking, believing that all is well. Indication of not honoring Delgado's contract? Did you read the papers today? They are shopping him and can't even tell Delgado himself he is staying. Other than the fact teams are being told Delgado is available (read the three papers today to confirm that), plus the fact ticket sales are down due to the storm and the stadium plans are all but dead, why would you believe this team isn't going to unload anyone making a reasonable contract? You think every free agent isn't looking at how Delgado is being treated? You think Beckett wants to sign long term when there will be a bunch of scrubs behind him? When the payroll is slashed and there is a "firesale" or whatever you want to call it, then you know where you heard it first. If I am wrong I will admit it. When you are wrong, I expect the same. Ah yes the local papers, who never have anything good to say about the Marlins. But you were talking like you had inside knowledge. You said point blank the team was headed towards a firesale and that the FO had no intentions of honoring Delgado's contract. And scrubs behind Beckett? Willis is a cy young candidate, Vargas proved he can get it done, Olsen is one of the top pitching prospects in the game AND did better than good while he was called up, and Johnson proved he could pitch at the big level too. First off, regarding Beckett and Willis, I was talking about the team and defense behind them, not the third, fourth and fifth starters. As for them, Vargas showed he has promise. He hasn't proven he can win. Johnson made one start, and you say he's proven he can win? Olsen was inconsistent and was hurt the second half. You say he is one of the top pitching prospects in all of baseball? Based on what? Maybe he will be good. Beckett has more talent than Vargas, Johnson and Olsen put together, and Josh just had his first winning season in the big leagus. And it came in his fourth full season. As for the local papers, you obviously didn't read what was said. Delgado's agent wants the Marlins to say if Delgado is staying or not. Beinfest didn't do it. The team is shopping him. That is not in dispute, except to those who don't wish to believe facts. Several of you in here have repeatedly said it was all garbage that Delgado would even be shopped. Several of you pointed out that the reports last Friday and Saturday that Delgado would be shopped beginning this week at the GM meetings said that was all nonsense because Loria gave his word to Delgado. Well, guess what, those who laughed at that were proven dead wrong. So why should the rest of us in here read the same opinions from the same people who are proven wrong time and again. I am expressing my opinion. And the facts are lining up that a firesale is ahead. Season tickets are down. Hurricane Wilma has hurt corporate sponsorships and the stadium push. Local people are paying deductables on insurance, they don't have the disposable income to buy season tickets right now. Loria has lost a lot of money over the past four years and now they are getting younger. Those are the facts. If you choose to keep believing your own fiction go ahead. I am sorry if the truth hurts.

Huh Marlins161? What indications are there that this is a firesale? And what inside info do you have that the Marlins have no intention of honoring Delgado's contract? Please enlighten us. That, or stop being a troll. A troll? For not drinking the koolade you and some of your friends are drinking, believing that all is well. Indication of not honoring Delgado's contract? Did you read the papers today? They are shopping him and can't even tell Delgado himself he is staying. Other than the fact teams are being told Delgado is available (read the three papers today to confirm that), plus the fact ticket sales are down due to the storm and the stadium plans are all but dead, why would you believe this team isn't going to unload anyone making a reasonable contract? You think every free agent isn't looking at how Delgado is being treated? You think Beckett wants to sign long term when there will be a bunch of scrubs behind him? When the payroll is slashed and there is a "firesale" or whatever you want to call it, then you know where you heard it first. If I am wrong I will admit it. When you are wrong, I expect the same.

Castillo's OBP was .418 in year 2000, five seasons ago. See my above post which I edited while you were writing your response. Overall, Castillo's OBP is about 15 points higher than Pierre. In other words he reaches first base about ten times per season than JP. The difference is when JP gets on base he moved along 47 more times than Castillo last season. I'm not disparaging Castillo. I love the guy. But if tough choices have to be made, I say keep JP and trade Castillo. You want to get rid of the best fielding second baseman in the game? Who do you replace him with Joe Dillon? We saw how dreadful we are defensively with Andino in there instead of Gonzo. Castillo saves so many runs with his glove. This team already gave up way too much defense when Beinfest mis evaluated D Lee. By Beinfest not having the vision to see that Lee was worth $21 mil for three years a few years ago, he instead spent $52 mil on Delgado. Of course the team has no intention of honoring the remaining $48 mil owed to Carlos. Trading Castillo would be yet another personal blunder by Beinfest. You obviously didn't spend much time reading my post because I gave two examples of free agent second basemen who by all accounts are excellent ballplayers. In fact Grudz led the league on doubleplays last season and we'd be damn lucky to land him, and Graffanino did an extraordinary job as well. If you want to trash Admin Beinfest no one is stopping you but that's not the subject at hand. You obviously don't read what I write. Castillo IS the best fielding second baseman in the league. I'd take him over Grudzielanek any day. I believe when I read Perry Hill says no one is better turning double plays than Castillo that the opinion of Hill is greater than that of yours. So what if the Cardinals turned more double plays, Castillo was hurt the final month so of course his numbers would be down. Plus, you saw that disaster in Andino lobbing underhand slow balls that not even Castillo could turn for two. Graffanino over Castillo? Come on. Not even close.

Castillo's OBP was .418 in year 2000, five seasons ago. See my above post which I edited while you were writing your response. Overall, Castillo's OBP is about 15 points higher than Pierre. In other words he reaches first base about ten times per season than JP. The difference is when JP gets on base he moved along 47 more times than Castillo last season. I'm not disparaging Castillo. I love the guy. But if tough choices have to be made, I say keep JP and trade Castillo. You want to get rid of the best fielding second baseman in the game? Who do you replace him with Joe Dillon? We saw how dreadful we are defensively with Andino in there instead of Gonzo. Castillo saves so many runs with his glove. This team already gave up way too much defense when Beinfest mis evaluated D Lee. By Beinfest not having the vision to see that Lee was worth $21 mil for three years a few years ago, he instead spent $52 mil on Delgado. Of course the team has no intention of honoring the remaining $48 mil owed to Carlos. Trading Castillo would be yet another personal blunder by Beinfest.

Wait... let me get this straight. Quality replacement at second base? You want to trade Castillo, and for some reason known and understandable to you, sign Pierre to a long expensive contract? I assume my dear friend, you are begging for an explanation. First of all, the word "expensive" in regards to signing Juan Pierre to a multi-year contract, is your word, not mine. I believe that the opposite is true, and in the longrun, much more worthwhile than continuing to pay $5 million a year to a player who only plays part-time at second base. The biggest difference between Juan Pierre and Luis Castillo is that Pierre will give you +/- 700 PAs year in, year out, and while he isn't the perfect leadoff guy (and putting aside for a moment your rabid hatred of him) he is a guy a GM and manager can build a top of the lineup around knowing he'll be there. Castillo on the otherhand has never fully recovered from his hip surgery, playing less and less games for three years straight. If you actually went to games you know that even when healthy, Castillo looks injured, almost always sporting a limp. His speed has evaporated, going from 48 stolen bases in '02 to 21 in each of the next two years, and finally down to 10 last season. Nobody loves Luis more than me but anyone can see his game is in decline. Without asking them, I bet guys like PB and Money, guys I know go to games will agree. Castillo's contract calls for $5 million this upcoming season ('06) and if he has 400 PA in 2006 the team is obligated to extend his contract thru '07 at $5.75 million. Then there's the matter of the $2 million bonus he gets during his contract (which appears unpaid at this point) bringing his total compensation over the next two years to a whopping $12.75 million. Pretty big chunk of change for a guy who may or may not be your leadoff guy down the stretch when you need him the most. Certainly alot more money than a Tony Graffanino or Mark Grudzielanik would cost for the same period. In fact about three times as much. On the other hand you have Juan Pierre, he of the perpetual 650 to 700 PAs, average 55 stolen bases and career .305 BA. I realize a hater like you will start quoting this stat and that to demean the fellow but the fact is half of baseball would line up around the block to trade for him if given the opportunity. He isn't perfect, he needs to improve in some areas but he's still one of the premier leadoff guys in the game. As we all know, Pierre is arbitration eligible this off season and conventional wisdom seems split whether to trade him now or go the arbitration route with him, but I have a different POV. I say let's try and sign him to a three year deal at a price BELOW what he'd receive probably receive thru arbitration, (for example purposes, let's say JP would be awarded $5 million in arb, I'm suggesting we give negotiate a contract of let's say, $14 million for three years, but again these numbers are just for illustration purposes) not unlike the D'Rays just did with Rocco Baldelli, thus creating value in his contract, the exact opposite of the situation we have right now with Delgado, where his remaining contract is above value because the remaining three years of his contract include $$$ to offset the paltry $4 million the Fish paid him in '05. Castillo still has significant value in the marketplace with a dozen teams in search of a leadoff guy and a Gold Glove to boot. Now is the time to trade him, when he has value. Castillo, at the very least should bring either pitching or prospects, or conceivably both. And at some time in the future, if we've negotiated the right deal with Pierre, we may have the opportunity to trade him as well, and bring more resources to the Marlins, whether it be a position player or pitcher, thus continuing to feed the team with fresh blood that keeps payroll low, but still competitive. I could go on and on with a more indepth explanation but I think I've sketched out enough so that you can grok what my thinking is. I don't expect you'll agree and perhaps others will agree with you, but from my perspective, if the Marlins want to get well financially this is one of the tough moves they will have to make going into the 2006 season. Why would you think JP would welcome a longterm contract here when these guys can't even guarentee Carlos. The FO has lost all credibility. All indications are that this is the start of a firesale. No one will want to sign longterm here. Not Dontrelle. Not Beckett. Not Pierre.

If that's what it says, then I completely apologize.? Like I said, Im not a season-ticket holder, so Im just going by what I had heard from other people.? And if it does say that, no one has a basis to complain. 905959[/snapback] That's what it says. It's in the orangish booklet that says "Catch the Fish! In 2005" and "Renewal Book" on the cover. It's on pages 5, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 20, 21, 23, 25, 27, 29, 30, and 31. Maybe they made it obvious after all. 905963[/snapback] That's why you and many others here should get your facts straight before you add on to posts from whiners who either can't read or don't understand basic business. The Marlins are not trying to pull something over on anyone. And if you don't like it, don't buy the tickets. As for moving the team, if I owned it, I'd move it in a heartbeat. This isn't a real baseball market. In real markets they don't bitch and moan over such trivial issues. They pray for the playoffs and pay the price to attend.

I can't believe you even started this thread. What a bunch of whining. This was not misleading or even something out of the ordinary in baseball. Try getting a playoff ticket in real markets where fans aren't fair weather -- as you and most who have responded to this topic appear to be. Don't renew your tickets. The team certainly doesn't need you and your sour attitude.

Remember, Lowell was 95% the reason Delgado signed here... 867349[/snapback] Lowell was NOT the major reason Delgado signed here. Yes, Delgado called Lowell as he was exploring his options. But that was not in any way the major attraction to the Marlins. And players like Delgado and Lowell certainly understand the business of baseball. Simple fact is, trades are made every season. Players end up on different teams.