from Jayson Stark at espn.com

# The commissioner's office is turning up the heat on the Marlins for the way in which they handled Jeff Torborg's firing and Jack McKeon's hiring. But it's hard to understand how a team making a midseason managerial change could be held to the same extensive interviewing requirements as a team making an offseason change.

 

Nevertheless, a high-ranking MLB official tells Rumblings: "That doesn't matter. No one wakes up on a Saturday and says, 'I think I'll fire this guy tonight.' You've always got time to think about it."

 

So the Marlins were required to tell the commissioner in advance what they planned to do, whom they planned to hire, which candidates were considered and why. Since they didn't do that -- and, apparently, considered no minorities before hiring McKeon -- they almost certainly will be disciplined, barring a tremendous late-breaking alibi.

 

Marlins players have been telling friends they think they'll be given until July 1 to turn things around under McKeon. And if they don't, it will be players -- not members of the coaching staff -- spinning out the revolving door.

 

Our early line on Most Likely Marlin to Be Dealt Before the Deadline: Mike Lowell to the Cubs, who have been pursuing him relentlessly for months.

 

# What makes the least sense about the Marlins' moves to baseball people we've surveyed is this incongruity:

 

If Torborg and pitching coach Brad Arnsberg were canned because of the old-school way they handled A.J. Burnett and the pitching staff, how could they be replaced by an older-school guy like McKeon?

 

"Pitch counts -- Jack doesn't believe in that," says one executive who worked with McKeon in a previous stop.

 

To verify that, we went back and checked pitcher workloads under McKeon when he was in Cincinnati. Let's just say he was no Captain Hook.

 

In three and a half seasons, his pitchers threw 120 pitches or more 35 times, went 130 or more 10 times and peaked at 148, in a Ron Villone complete game on Sept. 29, 2000. Nine different Reds starters threw 120 pitches or more under McKeon. Six threw 130 or more. Sounds pretty old-school to us.

 

"They're just trying to win over that Miami Beach seniors group," quipped one scout. "That's all."

Excuse me but SCREW MLB and that dictator at the top, Bud Selig....This is America, damn it. Why in the heck do teams have to tell the dictator every thing they do? Unfortunately, baseball is losing fans because of the very way the game is being run by that a**hole!!

Excuse me but SCREW MLB and that dictator at the top, Bud Selig....This is America, damn it. Why in the heck do teams have to tell the dictator every thing they do? Unfortunately, baseball is losing fans because of the very way the game is being run by that a**hole!!

agreed...

this edict by MLB...

 

 

i have no problem with....

 

 

 

the marlins should of followed it, there are NO excuses.

Excuse me but SCREW MLB and that dictator at the top, Bud Selig....This is America, damn it. Why in the heck do teams have to tell the dictator every thing they do? Unfortunately, baseball is losing fans because of the very way the game is being run by that a**hole!!

Excuse me but isn't America called The Home of The Free?

 

That's why Bud does it because it's America Damnit.

 

That is a good rule and should be followed.

 

There is not a damn way you can spin around we did not want to hire a manager who is a minority.

It's a stupid rule but it's a rule so the Marlins should go by it.

 

A team should not have to interview specific people, they should have the right to interview whoever they please and hire whoever they please without first passing a minority test.

 

It shouldn't be a rule but it unfortunately is.

It's a stupid rule but it's a rule

Admin it's stupid because MLB wants everyone to have a fair opportunity?

 

It's stupid to give everyone an equal chance?

 

I'm sorry Admin but I don't see how that rule is stupid

Everyone does have a equal chance. It shouldn't be a rule to MAKE sure you consider minorities. Everyone is a human being, it's when you make stupid rules like this that you get a form of segregation.

its only a rule because baseball has long had this 'good ole boy' system in place....

 

 

 

recycling managers who have no business being recycled, while not seriously considering minority candidates....

 

 

 

this is more of a problem in the front office than on the field...but it still remains a problem...

 

 

 

the NFL has the exact same problem.

 

 

only the NBA, especially on the coaching level is figuring it out.

Everyone does have a equal chance.

I don't beleive that...

 

If that is so where is The Minority Coaches?

 

You can't say that everyone is equal and then see The Number of minority coaches in this league.

 

That's just not true.

 

Also don't say that it's about who is the best coach because

 

Baker = Duh

 

Robinson = Is one of the best right now

 

Maclendon = IMO has done a fine job with what he has.

 

It's not a case of their talents it's a case of Race

 

How else do you explain The Teams with Minority coaches usually have a history of them.

i want to believe that there should be no 'edicts' as far as hiring and firing....

 

 

 

that is how it should be.

 

 

 

but far too often from what i have read and heard....

 

 

 

people are dismissed from a job because of their skin color....

 

 

 

this is the reason for this edict.

 

 

of course it also opens a can of worms of certain candidates being the 'token minority candidate'....so its definitely not a perfect system....and i am not sure if it really has produced any real success yet.

 

 

 

ps...did the brewers follow this edict when they hired ned yost...why do i recall hearing something about them not doing this?

"They're just trying to win over that Miami Beach seniors group," quipped one scout. "That's all."

 

A little age discrimination? Arent senior citizens considered a minority? Why not? And what if the Marlins hired a Japanese manager, or perhaps a black manager? Would this 'scout' 'quip' that same thing - the Marlins are trying to win over the Japanese group or the black group? Seems the discrimination here is only applied in convenience.

 

This is a non issue. I agree with Admin here, if you have to make a rule to enforce equality, then things are worse off. You should not legislate morals, it never works. Affirmative action is nothing more than reverse discrimination, but discrimination nonetheless.

 

Should teams consider hiring minority candidates, yes. Does MLB have to make some stupid madate to do so? No, Seilg could be a man and address the media and say there is a racial problem in baseball he wants to address. Put the pressure on clubs through the media - that undying whore of democracy. They dont have to pass a law and does the same job. The question should be, why is there a law/mandate in the first place? It is just another form of control.

 

After Felipe Alou and Dusty Baker, what other 'minorities' were hired? And since the Cubs were gearing for Baker, why werent they forced to interview other minorities or at least 'consider' some white coaches? The mandate is flawed in its execution. It is still inherently discriminatory and a snapshot of a larger epidemic sweeping through America these days - political correctness. This will kill our society if we let it.

its nothing more than a version of affirmative action.

 

 

 

 

this was a failure when it was 'popular' but it faded away.....

 

 

 

bud selig does many things wrong....but he should not be faulted for at least making an attempt to give minority coaches 'an equal chance' at getting hired....

 

 

its flawed like it was pointed out.....

 

 

 

but there are many things in society that are messed up...this alone will not destroy society....

 

 

 

people's individualism and their desire to look out for themselves over their fellow man will destroy society far sooner than any mandate to consider minority candidate for an employment position.

Everyone does have a equal chance. It shouldn't be a rule to MAKE sure you consider minorities. Everyone is a human being, it's when you make stupid rules like this that you get a form of segregation.

 

Our early line on Most Likely Marlin to Be Dealt Before the Deadline: Mike Lowell to the Cubs

And well, the Marlins have an amazing track record for hiring Minorties anyway! Umm... whose on third base when the Marlins are batting?

 

Plus, Lee will be the first to go. He isn't producing, he is replaceable, and he is worth a very, very good amount. I gaurentee you, the first thing this front office and ownership does right will be keeping Mike Lowell for a long time. A hometown boy and HUGE fan favorite. And imagine what could happen to attendence and other things if he hit 30 big flies? Next thing they need to do is sign Alex Gonzalez for a while, for a pretty cheap price, so we have a solid SS for years. Then do the same thing with Encarnacion.

Individualism will not destroy a society, individualism is the very fabric which composes society. The problem in the US of A is that we do not encourage people to be indivduals, we encourage people to be the same as everyone else. It is in our language, it is in our society and is closely tied with a capatalistic society - a flaw nonetheless in which we are trying to market to as many people as we can. Aim a product at a group of people, and minority groups (which individuals compose) only frustrate that process.

 

To be an outsider, to be different, is to bring great sadness and pain upon oneself. Or at least that is how the akward high school student feels and the loner is portrayed. No one wants to be alone. But these are all fears exercised. We should encourage people to be different and APPRECIATE them for being different. Mandates like these only feed the symptom and do not treat the cure. It only nurtures this type of behavior of forcing everyone to be the same, when what we need is diviserity.

 

How does it do this? By assuming that a black manager is exactly the same as a white manager. There is a blurring of the line of individuals here. We need to consider people as individuals on their own merit. No 2 men are alike, and not everyone should be treated as if they are. The color of one's skin has nothing to do with how someone can manage - and to force people to consider one color of skin before or over another color is counter-productive and contradictory. Rather, hire the individual whose experiences make the individual. Do people hire people they can relate to? Yes. Should they be forced into hiring people that they may not understand or get along with? Ah, an interesting question that only leads us back to the problem.

 

This is what is important, to look at the differences and not be afraid, not to homogenize. The intentions may be good here, but that still doesnt change the fact that people are being forced to be discriminatory in reverse. Discrimination is discrimination and no one wins.

Everyone does have a equal chance. It shouldn't be a rule to MAKE sure you consider minorities. Everyone is a human being, it's when you make stupid rules like this that you get a form of segregation.

And well, the Marlins have an amazing track record for hiring Minorties anyway! Umm... whose on third base when the Marlins are batting? thats a joke right?

Ramp,

 

There was an interesting article in the paper (either Herald of Sun-Sentinel) that seems to support that the Marlins are diverse. I would refer you to it, but I have to do a little searching first. You may be surprised...

Not even close to it. The Marlins have always most definately considered Minorities for high level positions... Tony Perez... Ozzie Guillen... just to name a couple...

you guys are right....my bad :cool

In the Marlins' front office, half of the team's eight executives -- special assistants to the president Tony P?rez and Andre Dawson and executive assistants Beth McConville and Lisa Milk -- are women or minorities, while assistant general manager Michael Hill, the No. 2 on the baseball side, is among the highest-ranking minorities in the sport. In the team's finance office, four of the five executives are women and three are minorities.

 

Two of the six members of the on-field coaching staff -- third base coach Ozzie Guill?n and hitting coach Bill Robinson -- are minorities. But the team hasn't had a minority manager since interim skipper P?rez was promoted from the dugout to the front office after the 2001 season.

 

Samson said the Marlins also have received widespread industry attention for their outreach toward South Florida's Hispanic community.

 

But in considering a new manager, McKeon was clearly the best man for the job, he said.

 

 

Here is a link for the article that quote came from:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sport...all/5854926.htm

 

What I would like to see is MLB try and pull some stunt about hiring 'minorities' and when they find that the Marlins are very 'diversified', watch the Marlins pull the rug out from underneath those organizations who accused the Marlins and see how many of them are contradictory.

So what you just told us is, the minorities in the Marlins front office are acually the non-minorities? lol. That's S. Florida for ya...lol.

it depends largely what the individualism is based upon....

 

 

 

What is American individualism?

 

 

It demands personal effort and stimulates great energy to achieve, yet provides little encouragement for nurturance, taking a sink or swim approach to moral development as well as to economic success. It admires toughness and strength and fears softness and weakness. It adulates winners while showing contempt for losers, a contempt that can descend with crushing weight on those considered, either by others or by themselves, to be moral or social failures. (taken from Habits of the Heart)

 

 

Is it any wonder why we see society taking a downward spiral....

 

 

Individualism itself is not inherently evil...but when this becomes the absolute focus with little to no regard for your fellow man, we simply enter into a society where we have all these little individual pockets of ideas floating around with no common goal, other than the goal of saying, whatever is good for me is the goal...no matter how it effects my neighbor.

 

So you see....Individualism can destroy a society...it already is...

 

The examples you give...occur because of individualism and disregard for person A or person B.

 

 

Your right we should encourage and appreciate people for being different...why dont we?

 

 

Because that would alter our own individualistic goals toward what should be done in society.

 

 

Look at the majority of Americans total disdain for the Islamic culture as an example of this.

recycling managers who have no business being recycled, while not seriously considering minority candidates....

Isn't this the case with Robinson? Isn't he a "recycled manager"?

 

Was he not out of coaching for 11 years, before Selig himself "recycled" him?

 

He had a three year absence from managing 78-80 also.

 

And gee, he's a minority also.

 

There shouldn't be a rule making teams hire someone or even consider hiring someone, just because they are a minority.

 

The United States has yet to have a black president, or a female president, there's only been one Roman Catholic president...why then isn't there a rule forcing the major political parties to pick minorities to run on the presidential ticket?

 

It's essentially the same thing.

 

 

Normally Adam, I agree with you but this is something I disagree with you strongly about.

 

 

The is no way a team should be forced to hire someone based on race, color, or creed.

When did I ever imply that somone should be forced to hire a manager based on their color.

 

 

 

There are simply no other considerations in this edict. Simply color.

 

 

 

For every Frank Robinson there are 10 Jeff Torborg's.

 

 

 

Thank you for pointing out an exception, there are always one or two to every case, this does not mean that it proves or disproves a particular theory.

May I never miss an opportunity to mix politics and sports. . . . .

 

I sincerely believe the rule is wrong in every sports league. An owner's number one goal is to make a profit, which goes hand in hand with winning.

 

No matter what rule you have in place, an owner who has invested hundreds of millions of dollars is going to hire the guy HE thinks is right for the job. These guys are businessmen, even a racist owner would likely hire a minority if it meant winning. Money is #1 to these guys.

 

Forcing teams to interview candidates is unfair to the team and the candidate. I would hate to go on an interview when I thought that the guys had already had someone in mind but were forced to interview me to be in compliance. It makes a mockery of the interviewee.

 

Good managers will always have a job, regardless of color.