May 9, 200422 yr A Head-to-Head Meeting of Top Closers By JACK CURRY Published: May 9, 2004 IAMI, May 5 Armando Benitez lumbered across the mostly empty Florida Marlins clubhouse devouring a jumbo hot dog. He stopped near his locker and took a bite but then vanished into another room to finish his supersize snack. When Benitez reappeared several minutes later, he still moved slowly. He pulled his jersey over his head, he corrected someone who had inadvertently shorted him by one save, and, after an interview request, Benitez was suddenly in a hurry. He declined to speak until after the game, until after he had possibly chased those elusive three outs. Advertisement Eric Gagne of the Los Angeles Dodgers was about 100 feet away down the hall at Pro Player Stadium. Well, Gagne was in the clubhouse somewhere, but he was more of a ghost than Benitez. He spent about 30 seconds by his locker during pit stops between the trainer's room, the shower room and the food room. Gagne might have sneaked in a workout, too, because he was sweating as he stomped around. He sat through one scene of an adolescent movie on a big-screen television and seemed busy. Like Benitez, Gagne was several hours away from knowing if he would be pursuing those three outs. They are both closers, pitchers who are typically responsible for getting three outs, the final three outs and often the toughest three outs. There is no second chance for a closer. There is only tomorrow, that is, if the closer gets to keep his pressure-packed position. Gagne, 28, has been a better closer than anyone else in baseball. [He had his 73rd straight save Saturday, extending a record streak that dates from August 2002.]Benitez has been good, not great. His rsum has been smudged by a tendency to disintegrate in crucial games. This is a peek at how they went about their jobs on Tuesday, a peek at how two men chased three outs. "Every time I step on the mound, you have to be a good liar and an idiot," Gagne said, sitting in the third-base dugout before the game. "You got to be able to lie to yourself and be an idiot to believe your lies. You got to go out there and know you're going to be the best. Just think it." So was Gagne admitting he was a liar and an idiot? Of course, Gagne said. The mental aspect of closing is paramount to Gagne, who visualizes those three outs long before getting them. "Even if you might not feel great and might not have a positive attitude in your head, you got to get it somehow," Gagne said. "I try to do that every time I step on the field. I try to feel invincible." Shortly before Gagne spoke, Benitez talked to the Dodgers' Robin Ventura, his former Mets and Yankees teammate, on the field. Benitez had famous implosions with the Mets and lasted about three weeks with the Yankees after they acquired him last year not the topics Ventura planned to discuss. Still, Benitez supplied ground rules. "He said, `I don't want to talk about New York,' " Ventura said. "He said that's why he liked it here so much. He's happy. He's relaxed." Benitez, 31, is having a superb year for the Marlins, the defending World Series champions. Entering Tuesday, he was 10 for 10 in save chances, had struck out 17 and walked 5 in 16 innings, and had an 0.56 earned run average. Florida's Lenny Harris, who also played with Benitez on the Mets, said the calm environment is perfect for Benitez. "You go anywhere in New York and they tell you you've got to beat the Yankees," Harris said. "You go in Miami and nobody really gives a hoot about anything with baseball." Manager Jack McKeon punctuates Benitez's saves by hugging him, something that not even the protective Bobby Valentine did for Benitez when he managed the Mets. No one with the Yankees dreamed of hugging Benitez. "He's a big teddy bear," McKeon said. The big teddy bear likes the atmosphere, saying he relishes the fact that "I have the team behind me, the support." Benitez did not want to talk about how he was treated with other teams. Told that his nonanswer could be construed as his feeling unsupported elsewhere, Benitez said, "If you see it, you keep it." Josh Beckett helped guide the Marlins to a 3-2 lead on Tuesday, so the big teddy bear had the first chance for a save in the ninth. He started by uncorking a 92-mile-an-hour fastball to Shawn Green, followed by two balls. Harris said one of the big differences between Benitez and the Yankees' Mariano Rivera is that Rivera rarely lets a hitter escape once he is ahead in the count, so the pressure is always on the hitter. Advertisement As Green fouled off four straight pitches, the at-bat was loosely reminiscent of a much more important at-bat against another tall, left-handed power hitter: Paul O'Neill in Game 1 of the 2000 World Series. O'Neill worked the at-bat to 10 pitches before walking, then scored the tying run, tagging Benitez with a blown save. The Yankees won in extra innings. Green's at-bat climaxed with a flyout on the ninth pitch. But did it still have an impact on Benitez? When Paul Lo Duca dribbled a ball to the right of the mound, Benitez moved carefully toward it, then whipped it wide of first for a two-base error. It took Benitez one pitch to get the second out. Then Benitez put Adrian Beltre in an 0-2 hole and was one strike from keeping Gagne from pitching. The fans, all 12,000 of them, stood and howled for that elusive third out. But for the first time as a Marlin, Benitez faltered. On a 1-2 pitch, Beltre reached out and blooped the ball to right field, and it fell in front of a sliding Miguel Cabrera for a game-tying single. The big teddy bear was not jolly. He hoisted his arms above his shoulders and shouted. "Like I said, I never lost my confidence," Benitez said when asked about his antics. "I always have my confidence." This was not the postseason, in which he has blown four of his last seven save opportunities, and Benitez was victimized by his error and a bloop. But Harris said Benitez still had a reputation to shed. "I think that's something he has to get over, the big games," Harris said. "Can he close out these big games? He can get these saves here and there and be competitive, but, to clear his name, I think that he has to do something special, and that's to win in the postseason." There was little chance to quiz Benitez about Harris's comments or any other topic; he refused to discuss anything after he was asked about pitching in New York. Benitez pitched a scoreless 10th, but the Dodgers scored a run off Justin Wayne in the 11th, and it was Gagne's turn. He had a 4-3 lead and the canvas all to himself. Now Gagne needed those three outs. "I don't win the game," he said. "I just pitch one inning and close it." Gagne watches the first five or six innings on television because he gets better angles on how hitters are reacting. When he leaves the clubhouse, Gagne discusses anything but the game, he said, because that is too mentally draining. "I tell him stories," Ventura said. "That's my job here." The story with Gagne is about perfection, utter and absolute perfection. Gagne throws four pitches a fastball, a changeup, a curveball and a slider so he is the rare closer who attacks hitters in a variety of ways. In the bottom of the 11th, he unleashed four fastballs to Alex Gonzalez, all 97 or 98 m.p.h., and struck him out swinging. One out. He fooled Hee Seop Choi with two nasty changeups, then pumped another 98-m.p.h. heater. Choi swung helplessly. Two outs. Juan Pierre slapped a single to center, but Gagne seemed oblivious to it. He fired two strikes to Damion Easley and was one strike from another save, another addition to the nearly two-year-old streak. But first, the unkempt Gagne surprisingly decided at that moment that he needed to tidy up. He dropped his glove behind the mound, bent his knees and tucked in the front of his shirt. He looked like a couch potato shoving his T-shirt into his pants upon arising for the 30-foot journey to the refrigerator. "Oh, he's a pig," Ventura said playfully. "He's definitely a pig." The slightly tidier Gagne tossed three straight balls. Was a tucked shirt Gagne's kryptonite? Forget it. He threw a fastball that Easley fouled off and uncorked another one that Easley stared at for strike three. Gagne pumped his fist, invincible again. He had the three outs. Although Gagne has never been tested in the postseason, Ventura dismissed that as a serious issue and promised Gagne would be as dominant as Rivera if he closed games in October. Rivera is considered the best postseason closer ever. As Ventura sipped a beer, he veered from complimenting the perfect closer to doing the same for the imperfect closer. Ventura said he trusted Benitez with the Mets and added, "I'd still take my chances with him because not everyone can have Gagne or Rivera." Not everyone can get those three outs, either. This time, only Gagne did.
May 9, 200422 yr Both great closers. I think Armando will get more saves though because he is on the Marlins and I think that the Marlins will have more wins than LA at the end of the season...
May 9, 200422 yr That article made me mad. They said "all 12,000 of them" but didn't say that Game 7 of the NBA Play-offs was in Miami! And people are starting to make Gagne look invincible even though he's not. People hit the ball hard and they hit it good. Gagne has been saved a more than 15 times because of the defense behind him. Take any strikeout pitcher and put him in the closer roll then see what happens. 1) Hitters don't get to see him a lot, 2) He's only a closer because his fat ass sucked too much to be a starter, and 3) I can't wait 'til he blows a save. Summary: I hate Gagne.
May 9, 200422 yr I cant wait until he blows a save also... The Marlins only have 1 hit against him...and that was JP's hit.
May 10, 200422 yr Gagne is a step above Benitez. Until Benitez closes a game 7, I'll wave 2001 & 2002 blown save stat sheets in anyone's face that says otherwise.
May 10, 200422 yr Gagne = God ... he's nothing but dynamite and IMO he's already a top 3 closer in history
May 10, 200422 yr Gagne is a step above Benitez. Until Benitez closes a game 7, I'll wave 2001 & 2002 blown save stat sheets in anyone's face that says otherwise. until gagne saves a meaningful game, i wont care about him but he is, statistically speaking, the best closer in MLB
May 10, 200422 yr Gagne is a step above Benitez. Until Benitez closes a game 7, I'll wave 2001 & 2002 blown save stat sheets in anyone's face that says otherwise. When has Gagne EVER been in a game with any kind of meaning? Pedro Martinez, one of the best starters in the game of baseball got beat in Game 7 against the Yankees. The list could go on (but I cant do it at this moment!) of all the great pitchers that had their meltdowns. I am not saying Benitez is great, but he is pretty damn good. And if you think he is not as good as Urbina - you are sadly mistaken. He is better. And I was quite comfortable with Urbina and even he blew a couple of games in the playoffs. But that is a whole different animal. Until Gagne pitches a meaningful game, dont talk $h&t. Statistically, tip your hat to Gagne though - not easy at all doing what he is doing.
May 10, 200422 yr Wow, let's knock Gagne cause he's never been in a meaningful game, lord knows it's his fault the Dodgers couldn't score runs last year. You know who else sucked? Ernie Banks. Win a meaningful game please. Loser. That article made me mad. They said "all 12,000 of them" but didn't say that Game 7 of the NBA Play-offs was in Miami! And people are starting to make Gagne look invincible even though he's not. People hit the ball hard and they hit it good. Gagne has been saved a more than 15 times because of the defense behind him. Take any strikeout pitcher and put him in the closer roll then see what happens. 1) Hitters don't get to see him a lot, 2) He's only a closer because his fat ass sucked too much to be a starter, and 3) I can't wait 'til he blows a save. So what? Isn't #1 why all closers are good? Who cares about #2, other closers are closers cause they're arms aren't strong enough to start, nobody rips them for that. Who cares if he sucked as a starter? His defense behind him saved him? Oh, let's knock him for that. No other pitchers ever get helped by their defense. And we all know any strikeout pitcher can be an awesome closer. That's been proven time and time again. If Gagne was Marlin he'd be the "greatest of all-time" already. And as for that 12,000 fans line...were they lying? Is it the paper's job to make excuses for our crappy attendance? And, for the record, I can't stand Gagne either, but I'm not going to make up lame reasons to pretend he's not the best closer in baseball right now.
May 10, 200422 yr You cant compare them. Gange is very consistant and never gets in trouble. Benitez gets in trouble and finds a way to get out of it. But Benitez has been dominant so far. Very impressive.
May 10, 200422 yr And as for that 12,000 fans line...were they lying? Is it the paper's job to make excuses for our crappy attendance? There is a difference between lying and not saying something. The newspaper doesn't have to go out of its way to bring up the attendance, but it did. UberUbi has a legit beef there. Gagne, I don't know man. He's awesome. But, I don't know. Just something about him I don't like.
May 10, 200422 yr Wow, let's knock Gagne cause he's never been in a meaningful game, lord knows it's his fault the Dodgers couldn't score runs last year. You know who else sucked? Ernie Banks. Win a meaningful game please. Loser. That article made me mad. They said "all 12,000 of them" but didn't say that Game 7 of the NBA Play-offs was in Miami! And people are starting to make Gagne look invincible even though he's not. People hit the ball hard and they hit it good. Gagne has been saved a more than 15 times because of the defense behind him. Take any strikeout pitcher and put him in the closer roll then see what happens. 1) Hitters don't get to see him a lot, 2) He's only a closer because his fat ass sucked too much to be a starter, and 3) I can't wait 'til he blows a save. So what? Isn't #1 why all closers are good? Who cares about #2, other closers are closers cause they're arms aren't strong enough to start, nobody rips them for that. Who cares if he sucked as a starter? His defense behind him saved him? Oh, let's knock him for that. No other pitchers ever get helped by their defense. And we all know any strikeout pitcher can be an awesome closer. That's been proven time and time again. If Gagne was Marlin he'd be the "greatest of all-time" already. And as for that 12,000 fans line...were they lying? Is it the paper's job to make excuses for our crappy attendance? And, for the record, I can't stand Gagne either, but I'm not going to make up lame reasons to pretend he's not the best closer in baseball right now. bingo
May 10, 200422 yr There is a difference between lying and not saying something. The newspaper doesn't have to go out of its way to bring up the attendance, but it did. UberUbi has a legit beef there. Yeah, well, I have a hard time getting mad about people ragging on our crappy attendance when it's true. Sure they could have not brought it up, but it doesn't make it any less of a fact.
May 10, 200422 yr I'm not mad either, I just know that other people get annoyed at things like that and in the case of a media source like that it is a legitimate gripe, you have a small space to put whatever information you please and that isn't exactly noteworthy. Especially on a day when there is a Game 7 in the same city.
May 10, 200422 yr That article made me mad. They said "all 12,000 of them" but didn't say that Game 7 of the NBA Play-offs was in Miami! And people are starting to make Gagne look invincible even though he's not. People hit the ball hard and they hit it good. Gagne has been saved a more than 15 times because of the defense behind him. Take any strikeout pitcher and put him in the closer roll then see what happens. 1) Hitters don't get to see him a lot, 2) He's only a closer because his fat ass sucked too much to be a starter, and 3) I can't wait 'til he blows a save. Summary: I hate Gagne. So then every other closer in the game and in history sucks. Gimme a break.
May 10, 200422 yr Both of these closers are great. But Gange just gets the job done fast....he dosent mess around and he just comes in and sets the other team down 1-2-3. Benitez on the other hand dosent do that....if he has a one run lead than he will pitch very good and not allow a run...but if you give him a few more runs then he will prob. give up some runs...he always makes the game intresting and thats why Armando blows a save very rarely and Gange almost never blows a save.
May 10, 200422 yr Mando needs the lights off routine we are saving for the new stadium He'll be pumping them in there 105 after an entrance like that
May 10, 200422 yr Mando needs the lights off routine we are saving for the new stadium He'll be pumping them in there 105 after an entrance like that Well...anything can happen....but I dont think hes going to actually throw 105 MPH in the new stadium...I mean maybe he is going to feel better there...and perhaps he will also play better there....but I dont think that he is going to start throwing pitches over 5 MPH faster than what he normally does. But anything could happen in the end...
May 11, 200422 yr When Benitez came up with the O's he had better stuff than any of the premier closers at the time (Mesa, Wetteland, Beck) and better stuff than what Gagne has had in his first couple years in the majors. But now, it's Rivera > Gagne > Benitez
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