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Rumsfeld Ok'd Prisoner Program


DaGreatOne
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NEW YORK - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld authorized the expansion of a secret program that encouraged physical coercion and sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners to obtain intelligence about the growing insurgency in Iraq (news - web sites), The New Yorker reported Saturday.

 

 

AP Photo

 

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The Defense Department strongly denied the claims made in the report, which cited unnamed current and former intelligence officials and was published on the magazine's Web site. Pentagon (news - web sites) spokesman Lawrence Di Rita issued a statement calling the claims "outlandish, conspiratorial, and filled with error and anonymous conjecture."

 

 

The story, written by reporter Seymour Hersh, said Rumsfeld decided to expand the program last year, broadening a Pentagon operation from the hunt for al-Qaida in Afghanistan (news - web sites) to interrogation of prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad.

 

 

Seven soldiers are facing military charges related to the abuse and humiliation of prisoners captured by the now-infamous photographs at the prison. Some of the soldiers and their lawyers have said military intelligence officials told military police assigned as guards to abuse the prisoners to make interrogations easier.

 

 

According to the story, which hits newsstands Monday, the initial operation Rumsfeld authorized gave blanket approval to kill or capture and interrogate "high value" targets in the war on terrorism. The program stemmed from frustrating efforts to capture high-level terrorists in the weeks after the start of U.S. bombings in Afghanistan.

 

 

The program got approval from President Bush (news - web sites)'s national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites), and Bush was informed of its existence, the officials told Hersh.

 

 

Under the program, Hersh wrote, commandos carried out instant interrogations ? using force if necessary ? at secret CIA (news - web sites) detention centers scattered around the world. The intelligence would be relayed to the commanders at the Pentagon.

 

 

Last year, Rumsfeld and Stephen Cambone, his undersecretary for intelligence, expanded the scope of the Pentagon's program and brought its methods to Abu Ghraib, Hersh wrote.

 

 

Critics say the interrogation rules, first laid out in September after a visit to Iraq by the then-commander of the prison for terror suspects at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, amounted to a green light for abuse.

 

 

Defense Department officials deny that, saying prisoners always are treated under guidelines of the Geneva Conventions.

 

 

"No responsible official of the Department of Defense (news - web sites) approved any program that could conceivably have been intended to result in such abuses as witnessed in the recent photos and videos," Di Rita said in his statement. "This story seems to reflect the fevered insights of those with little, if any, connection to the activities in the Department of Defense."

 

 

Di Rita also said Cambone has never had any responsibility for any detainee or interrogation programs.

 

 

The intelligence sources told the magazine photos of the sexual abuse were used to intimidate prisoners and detainees into providing information on the insurgency. It was thought that some prisoners would do anything ? including spying on their associates ? to avoid dissemination of the shameful photos to family and friends.

 

 

One intelligence official said the CIA ended its involvement with the program at Abu Ghraib prison by last fall.

 

 

"They said, 'No way. We signed up for the core program in Afghanistan ? pre-approved for operations against the high-value terrorist targets ? and now you want to use it for cabdrivers, brothers-in-law, and people pulled off the streets,'" the source said.

 

I know some people dont share this opinion because we will look like evil people to the rest of the country for doing this but I dont see nothing wrong with it. These people dont deserve any better and they treat us the same way.

 

Two wrongs dont make a right but a right and wrong dont make a right either.

 

If this report is true I'm glad someone had the balls to intiate this program and have harder interrogation techniques, we all known most other countrys have easier interrogation laws.

 

 

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that is so f***ed up

Not like they were physically injuring them or anything.

 

Are you going to tell me they deserve good treatment for what they have done or will do? Oh so it's not big deal to make them strip, throw them in piles, make them masturbate, molest them, put bags over their heads?

 

I mean especially since that's the worst thing you could ever do to them since they have very very valued religious views.

 

And who knows if they would have even done anything? It's one thing to keep them as prisoners but another to torture them for nothing. They never did anything to them - I mean yeah they could have in the future but thats no excuse for the present.

 

And what kind of sick American ordered them to throw them in piles naked with bags over their heads, making GI's pose with their thumbs up next to the naked prisoners??

 

And people say "Oh why should we apologize if they kill all these soldiers blah blah blah" well HELLO we are invading their country. the only weapons they have are rocks. soooo many citizens were killed and so many families were destroyed so of course they're gonna be pissed off and do anything they can do kill the enemy and get them away. it's only natural.

 

i'm not surprised or i dont blame them for killing soldiers and everything because they're in THEIR country, not in ours.

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the only weapons they have are rocks!?! just about everyone over there has a kalashnikov.

 

so the people that don't rebel against the u.s. in violent form are wrong in their actions and aren't natural?

 

and about these very very religious views, most of them are extremists who want women to stay in the house and wear the burka 24/7 while they go out and partake in immoral acts.

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that is so f***ed up

Not like they were physically injuring them or anything.

 

Are you going to tell me they deserve good treatment for what they have done or will do? Oh so it's not big deal to make them strip, throw them in piles, make them masturbate, molest them, put bags over their heads?

 

I mean especially since that's the worst thing you could ever do to them since they have very very valued religious views.

 

And who knows if they would have even done anything? It's one thing to keep them as prisoners but another to torture them for nothing. They never did anything to them - I mean yeah they could have in the future but thats no excuse for the present.

 

And what kind of sick American ordered them to throw them in piles naked with bags over their heads, making GI's pose with their thumbs up next to the naked prisoners??

 

And people say "Oh why should we apologize if they kill all these soldiers blah blah blah" well HELLO we are invading their country. the only weapons they have are rocks. soooo many citizens were killed and so many families were destroyed so of course they're gonna be pissed off and do anything they can do kill the enemy and get them away. it's only natural.

 

i'm not surprised or i dont blame them for killing soldiers and everything because they're in THEIR country, not in ours. I get your point and I dont like some of the things they did to them like the sexual things but I do think they should have harder interrogation. I think they should be able to use some type of force to get answers from them.

 

It works in other countries and thats why a lot of times the U.S. will ship someone out of the country and pass the case over there because the laws are looser on interrogation.

 

And just because we invade their country it gives them no right to hang people or torture them either. They have the right to kill soldiers in combat and only in combat not in slaughters or suicide bombs thats what we call guerilla warfare and terrorism.

 

Only thing I found very disturbing about the whole ordeal was how the American soldiers were all happy and making cheerful gestures to the camera. Didnt like that.

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lol i knew someone was gonna prove me wrong

 

i don't know every tidbit about the whole iraqi war, i gave up on it a long time ago - i'm too sick to hear about all the unnecessary killing every damn day from both sides

 

i just tried to gather some info and make an arguement about it but i knew someone was gonna get me lol

 

one thing i know is that i will never agree with that prisoner s***, the whole sexual stuff just is wow

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first of all....how can you hate a president...I mean, you may not agree with what Bush is doing, but he's trying. It's not like he decided he's going to try and destroy this country and kill all those little turban-wearing bastards in the middle east.

 

He's trying. Some agree with what he's doing. Others don't.

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Furman, not trying to put you on the spot. But something has always nagged me about a lot of die hard Bush supporters. I get the sense that you are religious to some degree. Ive ascertained this from your posts on the abortion topic and you said you go to church. If you arent then Im sorry for the presumption and Ill make this a general question to everyone, which it is anyway.

 

 

But I dont understand how the religious right can not be angry with these things. There is no way Jesus would support any of these actions from the administartion 'sdecision that collateral damage in the form of women and children will happen all the way down to the results of this conflict somehow being a diversion. This has effectivley become a modern crusade. A lot of ministers and priests Ive spoken with who dont like to meddle with politics are upset with how Bush has ignored the suffering in America but caused problems elsewhere and justified them.

 

It just feeds my belief that religion has become political and is no longer the strong moral fabric it used to be.

 

 

As far as Bush:

 

Bush is more than just one man. He is a representative of his entire administration and everything they do. And Ill tell you why I hate Bush:

 

-He only represents the far right, not the entire nation.

 

-He stumps about health and education legislation to get support then underfunds them when they are not on the front page.

 

-My favorite: If you dont support him, somehow you are labeled as unpatriotic(the right cannot deny how often this tool has been used). He uses the flag for his own political purposes.

 

-If you question him or call him out, they sick the attack dogs on you and the media does absolutley nothing. Richard Clarke is a liar, Paul Oneill is jaded, etc. The best is Joe Wilson. Someone in this administration commited treason. They revealed his CIA wife's name because he called Bush out. Wilson is convinced it is Cheney and buddies.

 

-He was raising money for his reelection at a record pace. He will have twice as much as Kerry all to discredit and distort Kerry at every chance. He would have done this to anyone.

 

-He sees everything in this silly good versus evil mentality.

 

-He pleads ignorance when the s*** hits the fan on everything.

 

-He has established a deep deep deep divide in this country.

 

-Youre either with him or against him.

 

-He has placed an immense economic burden on our children. When they grow up, they are the ones that have to pay for this war and everything else.

 

-He characterizes everything in simplicity and broad stroke statements.

 

-He uses 9/11 for political purposes.

 

Listen guys, this isnt liberal america that hates him. These are many many moderates. This guy is hated more than any president of recent memory. This administration has been reckless and hard fisted. Its clear that Bush could grow horns and people would still support him.

 

I liked Bush's dad. I was fine with Bush at the start of his administration. I dont care if your policies dont staunchly meet with my views, as long as you are an open, good president.

 

This is the president of a conservative. Not a moderate. You cant expect people to support a president because he is perfect for you and your views but terrible for most other people.

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f m, has kerry not used the flag in his campaign("I won medals in Vietnam", bla bla bla)

 

also, i'm a bush supporter and not religious at all.

 

I am angry with the fact that these prisoners were mistreated and so is Bush, it was a few soldiers who went way over the line. They should be punished accordingly.

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f m, has kerry not used the flag in his campaign("I won medals in Vietnam", bla bla bla)

 

also, i'm a bush supporter and not religious at all.

 

I am angry with the fact that these prisoners were mistreated and so is Bush, it was a few soldiers who went way over the line. They should be punished accordingly.

Kerry has never accused anyone of being unpatriotic. That was the thrust of my flag claim. You cant run for president in this country without telling people how much you love America. But its another thing to question how much someone else loves the nation.

 

Kerry uses his medals because he has been characterized as being weak on defending this country. Bush is going to try and use character and his strong character as in issue in this election so Kerry has to let people know that he has strength of character that is earned on the battlefield. Yes its political too but this is politics.

 

Plus why is it questionable now when Bush's dad did the same thing? Was it heroism then in the face of the deserter Clinton but now its obnoxious?

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oh yeah and i know i hate bush and his whole damn administration

:)

Thats something most people can agree on.

 

:thumbup That's because the nature of liberals is to be loudmouth whiners. Election day will speak loud and clear. Conservatives speak with the ballot.

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oh yeah and i know i hate bush and his whole damn administration

:)

Thats something most people can agree on.

 

:thumbup That's because the nature of liberals is to be loudmouth whiners. Election day will speak loud and clear. Conservatives speak with the ballot. Don't ever call people who vote for Bush conservatives. Don't ever, they are not.

 

 

furman, the guy in your sigmust be someone special that you choose to have him there.

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