SorianoFanHFW Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 are you sure they would have done that on a hill, where the movie was done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Well, being Troy was a port city it was definately done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikesgirl1 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 some people were pissed that the gods weren't more involved in the movie...i'm glad it wasn't...it would have made it more hokie. Some people also thought it wasn't too realistic...newsflash! Movies aren't that realistic in general...especially when it's based on a war that is a part of MYTHOLOGY! The pelopenisian wars are mithology????? :blink: WOW Homer's Illiad is a fictional story but the events it evolved in where based in reality. Read more about ancient Greek history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 This was depicting the Trojan War, not the Pelopennisian (sp) War. That was fought between an alligned Greek nation against an invading Persian force. This gave us, among others, the Battle of Thermopalea and the Battle of Marathon. The Trojan War is VERY based on mythology. It really did happen, but the story of the whole war is extremely mythological. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikesgirl1 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 This was depicting the Trojan War, not the Pelopennisian (sp) War. That was fought between an alligned Greek nation against an invading Persian force. This gave us, among others, the Battle of Thermopalea and the Battle of Marathon. The Trojan War is VERY based on mythology. It really did happen, but the story of the whole war is extremely mythological. I am talking about the wars amongst Greek cities. Pelopenisian wars were not fought with the Persians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I apologize, the two wars' names always mix me up Regardless, that is not the war depicted. And that one also didn't have as much mythology (and coincidentally enough, the Persians were involved in that war too, so yeah the Athenians did fight the Persians as the Persians came in to the war on the side of the Spartans and the Delian League). The Delian League and the Athenian League just fought, it wasn't as entrenched in mythology as the Trojan War was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shamrock Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 What a suck-ass piece of crap. Bad acting. Bad fight scenes. Just compare it to Gladiator for perspective and this movie SUCKS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancin'_Homer Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 circa 1250-1200 BCE: Destruction of Troy (verified in the archaeological record, Level VIIIA). This is generally agreed to be the historical basis of the Homeric Trojan War and represents the last major effort of the Myceneans circa 750 BCE: Homer composes the Iliad, drawing from Mycenean mythological accounts of the destruction of Troy 490 BCE: First Persian invasion of Greece, lead by King Darius; routed by the Athenians at Marathon 480 BCE: Second Persian invasion of Greece, under King Xerxes -- unsuccessful defense of Thermopylai by Sparta; inconclusive sea engagements at Artemis; sack of Attica and burning of Athens; Athenian victory at Salamis 478 BCE: Sparta and Peloponnesian League withdraw from Greek fleet; formation of Delian League (beginning of period of conflict between Athens and Sparta) 443 BCE: Beginning of supremacy of Pericles (The Athenian Golden Age) 431 BCE: Peloponnesian League invades Attica 429 BCE: Death of Pericles 404 BCE: Surrender of Athens and installation of Spartan-backed oligarchy (the Thirty) 403 BCE: Restoration of democracy in Athens and general amnesty Summary: Trojan War = Mycenaeans vs. Persians (no Greeks) -- circa 1200-1250 BCE Persian Wars = Greek league vs. Persia -- 480-490 BCE Peloponnesian War = Athens (and allies) vs. Sparta (and allies) -- 431-404 BCE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikesgirl1 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I apologize, the two wars' names always mix me up Regardless, that is not the war depicted. And that one also didn't have as much mythology (and coincidentally enough, the Persians were involved in that war too, so yeah the Athenians did fight the Persians as the Persians came in to the war on the side of the Spartans and the Delian League). The Delian League and the Athenian League just fought, it wasn't as entrenched in mythology as the Trojan War was. I didn't say that the whole story was real... I said "based on real events", the whole Troyan horse, Helen of Troy part, the Gods.... It's all part of mythology. The wars happened. My comment referred to Furmangator's assumption that the wars are mythology and this is not accurate. As I said, Homer's story had a as a background events that happened in Ancient Greece. The Pelopenisian wars were between Athens and Sparta. Each (Sparta and Athens) made alliances with other Greek cities and common enemies. The cities on the side of Athens included Troy. That is why, although the story depicted in the movie is supposed to be based on Homer's Illiad, it chose to make it more "historic" by omitting the Gods. Achilles was legend too, but to this day they are still looking and finding pieces to corroborate that he was real. Whether he was the son of a half goddess... I don't think so. :thumbup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 480 BCE: Second Persian invation of Greece, under King Xerxes -- unsuccessful defense of Thermopylai by Spart; inconclusive seas engagements at Artemis; sack of Attica and burning of Athens; Athenian victory at Salamis See, I don't agree with this at all. Sure, 300 Spartans were all killed. After two days of battle. Against 10,000 Persians. And they were winning until a traitor gave them up and they didn't stand a chance because they were ambushed from all sides. And they still put up a hell of a fight. With that considered, the mission was accomplished. The Spartans told everyone to get the hell out of Thermopylai. All the soldiers from all the other city-states were directed to Athens, were they stood their ground until the city was evacuated by the Athenian Navy, and everyone left. Once everyone had abandoned Athens, the battle was won. The Spartans died honorably, and though Athens was burnt no one went down with it because the Spartans bought the time needed to get everyone out. And something else that I noticed up that goes unsaid: Athens didn't fight in the Trojan War. Sparta was one of the earliest city-states to thrive, Athens was way aways from having their famed Navy and being such an amazing city. This war was mainly Sparta and city-states like Thebes without the help of the Athenian Navy. I guess that's why it took 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 The cities on the side of Athens included Troy. Troy was long destroyed and salt pored on the wounds and remnants of the city before the Pelopenisian War. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancin'_Homer Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Like many a lost battle (e.g., the Alamo), the defeat at Thermopylai was heroic and critically constructive: Go tell the Spartans, passer-by That here, obedient to their laws, we lie. Once the Spartans were defeated, the Persians continued through the Thermopylai pass on to Boetia and Attica. The Athenians, knowing that Xerxes was nearing, appealed to the Delphic Oracle for help. Her answer was stark: If you remain, you will surely be defeated. Not liking that answer, the Athenians demanded another one. This time, the oracle said: Put a wooden wall between you and the approaching Persians. While some Athenians foolishly (and incorrectly) took this to mean that they should build a wooden wall around their city, the majority of Athenians correctly interpreted this as meaning that they should retreat Athens by ship, i.e., by wooden walls. Retreating to Salamis, the Athenians (with the help of other city-states) waited for the Persians. When the Persians arrived, the Greeks defeated them in naval battle, laying the groundwork for the peace and stability which followed and enabling the achievement of the Golden Age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Trojan War = Mycenaeans vs. Persian (no Greeks) -- circa 1200-1250 BCE The Myceneans were the Greeks, just not the ones we are used to. The Persians weren't in the war at all, Troy was its own independent city-state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikesgirl1 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 The cities on the side of Athens included Troy. Troy was long destroyed and salt pored on the wounds and remnants of the city before the Pelopenisian War. Yup... I apologize for that. I just got confused with the backwards chronology. Troy was not in the pelopennisian wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreshFish Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I went to see it last night. This movie should be seen on VHS or DVD, not a must see in the theater movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancin'_Homer Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Phalanx (or hoplite) fighting did not begin until 6th c. BCE. After Homer and certainly after Troy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Oh trust me, I know. But I mean, if you are ignoring all other historical facts, why not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancin'_Homer Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Well, being Troy was a port city it was definately done. Perhaps you were not speaking of the phalanx being definitely used in Troy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Juanky Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 I forgot to include "could" I still would have wanted to see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikesgirl1 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 Furthermore, new evidence suggests that the Trojan war could have happened. Archaeology Was There a Trojan War? Volume 57 Number 3, May/June 2004 by Manfred Korfmann Despite assumptions to the contrary, archaeological work of the new Troy project has not been performed for the purpose of understanding Homer's Iliad or the Trojan War. For the past 16 years, more than 350 scholars, scientists, and technicians from nearly 20 countries have been collaborating on the excavations at the site in northwestern Turkey that began as an Early Bronze Age citadel in the third millennium B.C. and ended as a Byzantine settlement before being abandoned in A.D. 1350. However, as current director of the excavations, I am continually asked if Homer's Trojan War really happened. [...]The main argument against associating these ruins with the great city described in the Iliad has been that Troy in the Late Bronze Age was a wholly insignificant town and not a place worth fighting over. Our new excavations and the progress of research in southeastern Europe has changed such views regarding Troy considerably. It appears that this city was, by the standards of this region at that time, very large indeed, and most certainly of supraregional importance in controlling access from the Mediterranean to the Black Sea and from Asia Minor to southeast Europe and vice versa. Its citadel was unparalleled in the wider region and, as far as hitherto known, unmatched anywhere in southeastern Europe. Troy was also evidently attacked repeatedly and had to defend itself again and again, as indicated by repairs undertaken to the citadel's fortifications and efforts to enlarge and strengthen them. [...]According to the archaeological and historical findings of the past decade especially, it is now more likely than not that there were several armed conflicts in and around Troy at the end of the Late Bronze Age. At present we do not know whether all or some of these conflicts were distilled in later memory into the "Trojan War" or whether among them there was an especially memorable, single "Trojan War." However, everything currently suggests that Homer should be taken seriously, that his story of a military conflict between Greeks and the inhabitants of Troy is based on a memory of historical events--whatever these may have been. If someone came up to me at the excavation one day and expressed his or her belief that the Trojan War did indeed happen here, my response as an archaeologist working at Troy would be: Why not? Interesting... Now all they need to do is find the skeleton of Achilles... :mischief2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorianoFanHFW Posted May 17, 2004 Author Share Posted May 17, 2004 What a suck-ass piece of crap. Bad acting. Bad fight scenes. Just compare it to Gladiator for perspective and this movie SUCKS. booh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 My only question is what's up with the cheesy accents. That wasn't even standard RP. Weird. It sounds like when bad actors attempt Shakespeare (at least on the American side). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g8trz2003 Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 when did I say the war was mythology? I said a war that is a part of MYTHOLOGY! A war that is a PART of mythology. I didn't say "the whole war is mythology" or "the Trojan War never happened; it was all mythology". No, I said that the war is a part of Mythology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Posted May 17, 2004 Share Posted May 17, 2004 My only question is what's up with the cheesy accents. That wasn't even standard RP. Weird. It sounds like when bad actors attempt Shakespeare (at least on the American side). LOL, I saw The Blue Power Ranger from The Original Show do Mercutio in R@J on a class trip in an extreamly poor theatre company. He was really the only bright spot, sadly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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