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Why vote for kerry this november


legacyofCangelosi
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Not too long ago someone started a post asking why they liked bush or why they were voting for him. So i decided to ask the same thing in reverse. Please use concrete facts, not just 'because i hate bush' or 'b/c he is in touch with the common man', Please explain what kerry will do for america in terms of the policies he supports and why they will help (or hinder)

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I am putting my 2 cents in.

 

I'll admit that I was one of those "Anybody but Bush" people. I felt as if there was no hope in the Democratic party, because after the 2000 election, in my opinion, they chickened out and became a shadow of themselves.

 

I didn't watch most of the primaries because I felt there was no use; Bush had an overwhelming support, specially where I live. However, as the campaign started to get more exciting, I started to hear things about some of the candidates, like Dean and Edwards. I heard things that moved me in a way they hadn't in a long time. I started to ask more questions and to inquire about the candidates, with a shred of hope in my mind.

 

Two candidates stuck out in my search. John Kerry and John Edwards. I wanted a candidate who championed for the middle class, because as the economic index shows. Our middle class is dissapearing and there are more poor people than ever. Here is my list of things I look for in a candidate:

 

-Someone who could give us universal health care.

-Someone who believed everyone of us should have the chance to succeed in life and therefore offer possibilities for small businesses and for workers.

-Someone who would reward American companies for keeping jobs in our country and close the loop-holes that give tax cuts to American companies who ship jobs overseas.

-Someone who believes every child should have access to quality education.

-Someone who believes in building alliances with the rest of the world so we can fight international terrorism together.

-Someone who can finish the job in Iraq by persuading and bringing the much needed help of allied countries we alienated and mistreated going in.

-Someone who can work with Republicans in Congress for the good of the people and not the good of the party.

-Someone who can make Americans united for a purpose not for an ideology.

-Someone who can ensure our civil rights and liberties will be kept intact.

-Someone who while being a man of faith can keep religion out politics and legislation.

-Someone who can use his judgement when making decisions but who listens to others who disagree with him to form a consensus on things before acting.

-Someone who shows utmost respect and civility.

 

I found that John Kerry offered me this and more. John Kerry inspired me in a different way. He is not the flashy politician that Clinton is (even though I admittedly love Clinton), but the truth is that I was looking for a strong, focused and experienced man to take on the difficult task of bringing our country back on track. That man is John Kerry. He may not "showcase" the charisma many people say he doesn't have, but the man is a true and proven leader. I could sleep well at night, knowing he is in charge. That is what I was looking for. Someone who I can trust is going to do the right thing for me, my family and my country.

 

The other thing that finally sold me on Kerry is the only thing you probably have heard about him over and over again. Of course, what you may have heard on your side of the fence is usually a negative spin. I am talking about John Kerry's Vietnam service. He could have chosen Clinton's road and dodge the draft, but instead, Kerry volunteered to go. Many people will tell you: "but he was there only a few months" or "he had minor injuries" and the list goes on. But the bottom line is that even if he was there 1 day, he risked his life in doing so, because he believed it was his duty. As you may know he also saved his crewmate's life and showed incredible courage by pursuing the enemy in the worse possible conditions under fire. That is where I knew that this man has what it takes to be a leader.

 

One last thing. I hate the flip-flopper charge. I thing it only shows the stubborness and unreasonable demeanor of the people who call him this. Why? Because if you are unable to change your mind even when you know you were wrong, then you have not what it takes to be a leader. Part of being a leader is being able to take in different opinions and use your judgement to better understand the issue at hand. I think John Kerry is a man of principles who can understand better how to lead this country.

 

I hope it was of any help. It was my honest opinion on Kerry.

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I am putting my 2 cents in.

 

I'll admit that I was one of those "Anybody but Bush" people. I felt as if there was no hope in the Democratic party, because after the 2000 election, in my opinion, they chickened out and became a shadow of themselves.

 

I didn't watch most of the primaries because I felt there was no use; Bush had an overwhelming support, specially where I live. However, as the campaign started to get more exciting, I started to hear things about some of the candidates, like Dean and Edwards. I heard things that moved me in a way they hadn't in a long time. I started to ask more questions and to inquire about the candidates, with a shred of hope in my mind.

 

Two candidates stuck out in my search. John Kerry and John Edwards. I wanted a candidate who championed for the middle class, because as the economic index shows. Our middle class is dissapearing and there are more poor people than ever. Here is my list of things I look for in a candidate:

 

-Someone who could give us universal health care.

-Someone who believed everyone of us should have the chance to succeed in life and therefore offer possibilities for small businesses and for workers.

-Someone who would reward American companies for keeping jobs in our country and close the loop-holes that give tax cuts to American companies who ship jobs overseas.

-Someone who believes every child should have access to quality education.

-Someone who believes in building alliances with the rest of the world so we can fight international terrorism together.

-Someone who can finish the job in Iraq by persuading and bringing the much needed help of allied countries we alienated and mistreated going in.

-Someone who can work with Republicans in Congress for the good of the people and not the good of the party.

-Someone who can make Americans united for a purpose not for an ideology.

-Someone who can ensure our civil rights and liberties will be kept intact.

-Someone who while being a man of faith can keep religion out politics and legislation.

-Someone who can use his judgement when making decisions but who listens to others who disagree with him to form a consensus on things before acting.

-Someone who shows utmost respect and civility.

 

I found that John Kerry offered me this and more. John Kerry inspired me in a different way. He is not the flashy politician that Clinton is (even though I admittedly love Clinton), but the truth is that I was looking for a strong, focused and experienced man to take on the difficult task of bringing our country back on track. That man is John Kerry. He may not "showcase" the charisma many people say he doesn't have, but the man is a true and proven leader. I could sleep well at night, knowing he is in charge. That is what I was looking for. Someone who I can trust is going to do the right thing for me, my family and my country.

 

The other thing that finally sold me on Kerry is the only thing you probably have heard about him over and over again. Of course, what you may have heard on your side of the fence is usually a negative spin. I am talking about John Kerry's Vietnam service. He could have chosen Clinton's road and dodge the draft, but instead, Kerry volunteered to go. Many people will tell you: "but he was there only a few months" or "he had minor injuries" and the list goes on. But the bottom line is that even if he was there 1 day, he risked his life in doing so, because he believed it was his duty. As you may know he also saved his crewmate's life and showed incredible courage by pursuing the enemy in the worse possible conditions under fire. That is where I knew that this man has what it takes to be a leader.

 

One last thing. I hate the flip-flopper charge. I thing it only shows the stubborness and unreasonable demeanor of the people who call him this. Why? Because if you are unable to change your mind even when you know you were wrong, then you have not what it takes to be a leader. Part of being a leader is being able to take in different opinions and use your judgement to better understand the issue at hand. I think John Kerry is a man of principles who can understand better how to lead this country.

 

I hope it was of any help. It was my honest opinion on Kerry.

482602[/snapback]

 

 

Thanks for the feedback. What ill do is respectfully go over each of the aforementioned attributes and my opinion....When i say agreed I'm not saying i think kerry can do it, but just that it is sumthin i agree with

 

 

-Someone who could give us universal health care.

*I dont agree in the idea of any type of socialized healthcare for various reasons I wont go in to. Everyone should have healthcare, but there need to be ways to keep the govt out of this sort of thing, because then our healthcare system willend up like our education system

 

-Someone who believed everyone of us should have the chance to succeed in life and therefore offer possibilities for small businesses and for workers.

* I believe that believing everyone could succeed is the american way. However, not when it hinders your ability for upward mobility. For example if someone is poor and needs help getting back on their feet im all for it, but people need to be responsible for their actions and they need to work towards their goals. And when you make a certain amount of money b/c you've worked for it you should not be penalized so heavily for achieving success.

-Someone who would reward American companies for keeping jobs in our country and close the loop-holes that give tax cuts to American companies who ship jobs overseas.

*This is what i am mostly against, there needs to be free trade, it is better for america and the world, companies will come here as much as they will leave, and it will offer opportunities to people aorund the world, by improving the economy of many foreign nations in an effort to end hunger and poverty worldwide by creating jobs for all these people. That is the ultimate good of globalization, and why i will never vote for kerry, because i pray that before i die I see a globalized world where regardless of nation people can prosper. that is what equality and solidarity truly is. (Not to mention how much money will flow into the US and how much consumers will benefit from increased competition.)

-Someone who believes every child should have access to quality education.

*Agreed

-Someone who believes in building alliances with the rest of the world so we can fight international terrorism together.

*Agreed, but we cannot pander to the desires of our fairweather allies (France for example) b/c there needs do not always reflect ours. We need a strong president that can stand up and put america first in terms of foreign politics

-Someone who can finish the job in Iraq by persuading and bringing the much needed help of allied countries we alienated and mistreated going in.

*Agreed, same as above

-Someone who can work with Republicans in Congress for the good of the people and not the good of the party.

*Agreed, but will this man be john kerry?

-Someone who can make Americans united for a purpose not for an ideology.

*Same as above

-Someone who can ensure our civil rights and liberties will be kept intact.

*agreed especially civil liberties

-Someone who while being a man of faith can keep religion out politics and legislation.

*We also cannot forget that peoples religious freedoms need to be protected

-Someone who can use his judgement when making decisions but who listens to others who disagree with him to form a consensus on things before acting.

* Agreed

-Someone who shows utmost respect and civility.

*Necessary but he cant be afraid to step on someone else's toes if needed

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Thanks for the feedback. What ill do is respectfully go over each of the aforementioned attributes and my opinion....When i say agreed I'm not saying i think kerry can do it, but just that it is sumthin i agree with

 

 

-Someone who could give us universal health care.

*I dont agree in the idea of any type of socialized healthcare for various reasons I wont go in to. Everyone should have healthcare, but there need to be ways to keep the govt out of this sort of thing, because then our healthcare system willend up like our education system

 

-Someone who believed everyone of us should have the chance to succeed in life and therefore offer possibilities for small businesses and for workers.

* I believe that believing everyone could succeed is the american way. However, not when it hinders your ability for upward mobility. For example if someone is poor and needs help getting back on their feet im all for it, but people need to be responsible for their actions and they need to work towards their goals. And when you make a certain amount of money b/c you've worked for it you should not be penalized so heavily for achieving success.

-Someone who would reward American companies for keeping jobs in our country and close the loop-holes that give tax cuts to American companies who ship jobs overseas.

*This is what i am mostly against, there needs to be free trade, it is better for america and the world, companies will come here as much as they will leave, and it will offer opportunities to people aorund the world, by improving the economy of many foreign nations in an effort to end hunger and poverty worldwide by creating jobs for all these people. That is the ultimate good of globalization, and why i will never vote for kerry, because i pray that before i die I see a globalized world where regardless of nation people can prosper. that is what equality and solidarity truly is. (Not to mention how much money will flow into the US and how much consumers will benefit from increased competition.)

-Someone who believes every child should have access to quality education.

*Agreed

-Someone who believes in building alliances with the rest of the world so we can fight international terrorism together.

*Agreed, but we cannot pander to the desires of our fairweather allies (France for example) b/c there needs do not always reflect ours. We need a strong president that can stand up and put america first in terms of foreign politics

-Someone who can finish the job in Iraq by persuading and bringing the much needed help of allied countries we alienated and mistreated going in.

*Agreed, same as above

-Someone who can work with Republicans in Congress for the good of the people and not the good of the party.

*Agreed, but will this man be john kerry?

-Someone who can make Americans united for a purpose not for an ideology.

*Same as above

-Someone who can ensure our civil rights and liberties will be kept intact.

*agreed especially civil liberties

-Someone who while being a man of faith can keep religion out politics and legislation.

*We also cannot forget that peoples religious freedoms need to be protected

-Someone who can use his judgement when making decisions but who listens to others who disagree with him to form a consensus on things before acting.

* Agreed

-Someone who shows utmost respect and civility.

*Necessary but he cant be afraid to step on someone else's toes if needed

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I have one question for you Legacy. Did you watch Kerry's speech last night? All of your concerns in regards to my issues were clearly defined by Kerry.

 

1. Universal Health Care is a right and it doesn't have to end up like our education, which in turn is another one of Kerry's goals. Ensuring that our education system is adequately funded and improved.

 

2. In regards to "Penalizing" anyone. Kerry is not for "penalizing" anyone, but rather being fair to the American worker and American companies who keep jobs here in America. He never called for a tax increase, he actually is keeping the middle class tax cuts as they are and rolling back the ones given to those with income over $200,000. Several of the people who are on this category (like Donald Trump) are against tax cuts and he said they were reckless and unnecessary.

 

3. Kerry is not against Free Trade. He said "We will trade" but he will ensure that trade agreements are kept and that American Companies and workers can fairly compete internationally.

 

4. In regards to pandering to other countries. He was very clear that he would never allow other countries to dictate our national security issues or veto us. He said he would work with them multilaterally but not give them power over us. He also made it clear that he will exhaust all means before ever going to war, but if he has to he will not hesitate to do it.

 

5. Religious Freedoms are part of our civil rights and Kerry stated he would never allow for the constitution to be re-written under any ideology.

 

6. Stepping on toes. Kerry was a prosecutor, he knows how to go for the kill without using personal attacks. He did it very well last night. I am as extreme a Bush basher as you can get. :mischief

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Well first off its silly to argue that you cant vote for someone because you want the guy in office replaced. Voting a bad president out of office for a less evil is a perfectly legit reason. Ive said before why I want Bush out.

 

Bush is right wing. He is does not represent a middle ground. The nation needs a centrist. Say what you want about his voting record and the Bush propaganda machine trying to paint him in a corner. Kerry knows it political suicide to run away from being a moderate. Bush should learn that lesson too but he has terror to protect him. Here are the reasons Kerry should be voted and how he will bring certain issues back to moderate bipartisanship:

 

-War on terror and Iraq-Bush has used up all the political capital and good will post 9/11. He is a wild hog out there seemingly going senselessly. I believe we need a more sensible but strong president. Dont buy everything Bush says about Kerry's strength.

 

-Judicial nominees-Three more Scalia's on the court will be a nightmare.

 

-Middle class-Bush has been terrible for the middle class. Kerry says he will address the problems the middle class is facing, even if they have jobs. I believe him. I dont believe Bush, he had his chance.

 

-Defecit-What ever happend to the fiscal conservative? We are in debt to Japan and other foreign investors. The huge national debt is not good. Kerry will reduce it.

 

-healthcare-I dont think Kerry will push universal healthcare but I do think he will do a better job and actually care that people have it and have it good. I dont think its an issue Bush really cares much.

 

-Enviroment-Bush has been arguably the worst president of the last 100 years when it comes to the enviroment as RFKjr would argue. When Nixon's head of the EPA critisizes him, youve got something. Kerry is a lot better for the enviroment. He gets good marks and would be less controlled by special interests.

 

 

-Education-No child left behind is leaving children and schools behind. Talk to most schools and they hate it. Schools are opting out by large numbers. Its a good example of Bush bait and switch when he talks about it then underfunds it. Im more confident Kerry, with a bipartisan effort and actual funding, can fix this because unlike Bush, its an issue he cares about.

 

 

-Social security-I dont feel that Bush can fix the impending problem that will loom. Bush supporters cant see this but IMO he doesnt fix problems without making sure he addresses the needs of special interest. The next for years this problem will loom large and I trust Kerry to fix it right.

 

-Stem cell research-Kerry will not be controlled by the religious right.

 

 

Now you ask, can Kerry be more bipartisan than Bush? I think he clearly can. First off, Kerry wont have the house. It should stay Republican. So if Kerry wants to get stuff done, he will have to pander a bit. Second off, I hate it but its clear that too be too liberal is basic political suicide. Kerry has to be a moderate. Third, Delay and Bush are tightening around the moderate Republicans. I think Kerry sees a coalition capable of forming.

 

Look at Kerry's speech last night. He has said he will be a hawk if needed. Contrary to what Bush says, I think the new democrats and Kerry will be willing to go to war.

 

Its hard for us to prove any of this. Its silly to review plausible voting history. For me, I know Bush is a major divider. Give someone else a chance.

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actually mollusk Im not arguing that you guys shouldnt vote for kerry b/c u hate bush, rather I'm saying that I want to hear OTHER reasons as to why Kerry himself is good. We often hear why bush is bad and I wanted to start a post about kerry himself. The reasons you gave was why Bush was bad, and I already know why you guys think bush is bad I just wanted to hear why Kerry is good, and I think Lina did a good job stating her points. I did see most of the speech last night, but I take political speeches with a grain of salt b/c politicans say what people want to hear not what they'll really do.

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Ill be honest. My biggest concern has been getting Bush out of office rather than getting Kerry in office. But for me personally(and remember just me), last nights speech was great. I wasnt too thrilled about Kerry until last night and I dont think it was the pomp and hollywood stuff that changed my mind. I really saw John Kerry as our President last night. America is badly divided right now. Ideology and politics have really split us. There is nothing we can do about that. The libertarians, the democrats, the republicans..we can all argue till we are blue in the face. But the person in the White House has to lead America. He has to be someone we are all proud of. After last night, I believe John Kerry is someone we can all be proud of. I really believe he can unite this country much more than GWB. I think he can do for the US what Ronald Regean did in the 80s. I think the actions of John Kerry that I disagree with, I will respect. To me last night, he showed an amazing amount of credibility. You can take my word for it or you can look at how the Bush team is responding to him: he is a flip flopper, he is aloof, he will raise taxes. Im waiting for them to say he will eat your children. You see they are trying to preempt what I belive they see as his greatest strength, John Kerry the man. I think they really fear the American people, once they get to know John Kerry, can really see him as a leader, something Bush squandered with a extremley partisan agenda after 9-11.

 

Whatever his policies and pitfalls are, there is something about John Kerry the man that last night, for the first time in a long time, made me proud to be an American. Not just saying it because it is the right thing to say or the hokey thing to say. But really, I think he embodies everything America, patriotism, and love of ones nation is supposed to be. Not rhetoric and follow what I say but love you country, all of it, every flaw, and fight to fix it.

 

I've often said I would fight for this country if I was asked to because I owe it a debt. I think John Kerry emodies that spirit. I would trust my life to his choice. I dont know if I could do that readily for George Bush.

 

I think he can be the strong guiding leader this nation really need. Yes some people like to say that about GWB but its just not true. When you smerk and insult half the country because their ideology doesnt match yours, you are only a representative of half the nation. Its something Bush had after 9-11 but he threw away.

 

Now thats my rant about John Kerry. I know it comes off as very idealistic. But I can assure you Im no idealist. We will all forever disagree with policy and what is right for America. That will never change. But I believe, and I could be wrong and just be blind, that John Kerry could be the President that makes ALL OF US proud to be Americans again. We havent had that in a long time. We didnt under GWB, we didnt under Clinton. I cant say before that because I was too young, but from what I have read, we havent in a long time.

 

I never bought Bush's common man theme. He said he would be a uniter and not a divider and he has done the opposite. I didnt buy it when he ran on it in 2000. Something about him just made me think knows how to fool people into thinking he is one of them. I dont think John Kerry is one of us. I think he is a Norman Rockwell father figure type. Maybe its because Im on the other side and it makes it easier, but I believe John Kerry.

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I dont think John Kerry is one of us. I think he is a Norman Rockwell father figure type. Maybe its because Im on the other side and it makes it easier, but I believe John Kerry.

483171[/snapback]

 

That is exactly how I feel about John Kerry. He is that intense and focused man that seems deep in thought and provides quiet strenght. He may not be the kind of guy I would go partying with (Bill :mischief ) but he is the one that makes sure I have what I need. Like a father that guides you and provides for you. I never wanted a common man, I wanted an extraordinary man.

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I think Rudy Guiliani can

 

I thought he was great for NY and a leader to look up to. I liked Guiliani up until recently when he has done everything the Bush administration has asked him to do and say. Yesterday he acted as the spin guy for them against Edward's speech and he read off the talking points: flip flop, taxes, etc. So much for the independant mind.

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I dont think John Kerry is one of us. I think he is a Norman Rockwell father figure type. Maybe its because Im on the other side and it makes it easier, but I believe John Kerry.

483171[/snapback]

 

That is exactly how I feel about John Kerry. He is that intense and focused man that seems deep in thought and provides quiet strenght. He may not be the kind of guy I would go partying with (Bill :mischief ) but he is the one that makes sure I have what I need. Like a father that guides you and provides for you. I never wanted a common man, I wanted an extraordinary man.

483209[/snapback]

 

Those stories his daughters gave were really effective. They really humanized him well.

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I dont think John Kerry is one of us. I think he is a Norman Rockwell father figure type. Maybe its because Im on the other side and it makes it easier, but I believe John Kerry.

483171[/snapback]

 

That is exactly how I feel about John Kerry. He is that intense and focused man that seems deep in thought and provides quiet strenght. He may not be the kind of guy I would go partying with (Bill :mischief ) but he is the one that makes sure I have what I need. Like a father that guides you and provides for you. I never wanted a common man, I wanted an extraordinary man.

483209[/snapback]

 

Those stories his daughters gave were really effective. They really humanized him well.

483247[/snapback]

 

The thing is that for people like Kerry, if they don't have the exhuberant charisma or the good looks, connecting with the public can be quiet difficult. He has to rely on his experience and that people will look at him for what he is not for what he portrays. His daughters brought something about Kerry that none of us had the chance to see. The human side of him. The father that would jump into the water to rescue a hamster and then give it CPR because he knows it is a matter of life and death to his children. That really touched me.

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I'm with Mollusk on this. I trust that Kerry can fix the problems Bush has caused (alienating allies, removing pro-environmental legislation, increasing national debt, flip-flopping on education, etc.). Hopefully he will be able to do some of these things. I don't have a real stance on universal health care, because I don't think it's that big an issue yet, like gay marriage.

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I think Rudy Guiliani can

 

I thought he was great for NY and a leader to look up to. I liked Guiliani up until recently when he has done everything the Bush administration has asked him to do and say. Yesterday he acted as the spin guy for them against Edward's speech and he read off the talking points: flip flop, taxes, etc. So much for the independant mind.

483233[/snapback]

 

Gosh, maybe he actually believes what he says. Wouldn't that be a thought.

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I think Rudy Guiliani can

 

I thought he was great for NY and a leader to look up to. I liked Guiliani up until recently when he has done everything the Bush administration has asked him to do and say. Yesterday he acted as the spin guy for them against Edward's speech and he read off the talking points: flip flop, taxes, etc. So much for the independant mind.

483233[/snapback]

 

Gosh, maybe he actually believes what he says. Wouldn't that be a thought.

485441[/snapback]

 

Gosh, maybe he wants to buddy up to the national party before he starts the national run. Amazing how his beliefs happen to be exactly what the Bush campaign has as its talking points and he tells them during a news conference for Bush during the dems primary. Give me a break..

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I think Rudy Guiliani can

 

I thought he was great for NY and a leader to look up to. I liked Guiliani up until recently when he has done everything the Bush administration has asked him to do and say. Yesterday he acted as the spin guy for them against Edward's speech and he read off the talking points: flip flop, taxes, etc. So much for the independant mind.

483233[/snapback]

 

Gosh, maybe he actually believes what he says. Wouldn't that be a thought.

485441[/snapback]

 

Gosh, maybe he wants to buddy up to the national party before he starts the national run. Amazing how his beliefs happen to be exactly what the Bush campaign has as its talking points and he tells them during a news conference for Bush during the dems primary. Give me a break..

485599[/snapback]

 

Jesus, what "talking points"? If someone has beliefs that gibe with anothers, they're just regurgitating "talking points"? Or is that only with those people who you don't agree with?

 

You could say the same thing about John Edwards, Howard Dean etc.... vis a vis the primary and now. Take it from someone who's LIVED in New York pal, Giuliani is not one to "go with the flow".

 

Face it, Rudy gives the Bush campaign a heroic persona that the Reps have been sorely lacking - a man that is revered across America - and you can't stand that. Better they all be Vietnam dodgers and friends of Ken Lay. All the better to pigeonhole with.

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oh brother rippyo, spare me the crap. The discussion was about leaders who were above politics. Do you frikkin see me putting guys like Edwards and Dean there? No. I dont like Giuliani because he has now lowered himself to that level. If you cant see the obvious because it happens to go against how you feel then there is no point. Ive likedGiuliani. Ive liked him for a while. But Im not gonna ignore how partisan he has gotten recently because an ex New Yorker says so. Its one thing to gibe, another to have come at a convenient time, at a convenient pulpit, and as the EXACT same rhetoric that the Bush campaign has put out. He has eyes for bigger things and knows he can become a major player in the party. Because it jives with your views, I bet he reaches the Churchill/FDR level with you despite what he says. Trust me, if Daley, a very independant democrat, started saying stuff that he has never said before about Bush that is exactly what Kerry has been saying, I wouldnt ignore it because he has been a hell of a leader for Chicago.

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Rhetoric, shmetoric. Giuliani has always had these views, especially on national defense. You think he's just going to sit there and twiddle his thumbs in the midst of a major campaign and therefore debate? Oh the TIMING is off. He should shut up until December.

 

No leader is above politics. Duh. But to sit there and say that one party has leaders mired in politics while the others is just full of people who honestly speak their mind in the glorious Democratic party of inclusion is laughable. "No rhetoric on this side, no sirree just a bunch of gosh-darn, honest-to-God hope and love!" Anyone who doesn't agree with you has a hidden agenda.....gee that Karl Rove sure gets around doesn't he? Perhaps I should take a look at some of those old Nuremberg Rally photos OMG THERE HE IS! RIGHT BEHIND HITLER!

 

As a New Yorker, I remember all too well when he endorsed Cuomo for governor in 1994 and declined to run against Hillary in 2000. What, he was just biding his time?

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Geez this is just too much. Ok Ill make this simple.

 

-Did I ever say democrats dont engage in this stuff or arent part of the problem? Did you read my post putting Clinton in the same category? DID I EVER SAY THE DEMOCRATS WERE FULL OF HONEST TRUTHTELLER!?! Good god youve lost any sensibility in this thread by making it something it isnt. Christ rippyo, youve clearly seen what youve wanted to see from this discussion.

 

-Listen..he was a FAN FUKIN TASTIC leader for NY when he was mayor. Ive read what he and the chief of police did. Ive read the strategies they took. Ill say it now. IT WAS GOOD FOR NEW YORK AND WORTH THE SACRIFICE OF CIVIL LIBERTIES! I liked him and what he did even though it went against a lot of my views. If I was going to pigeonhole him I would have done it a long time ago. BUT FOR YOU HE CANT FRIKKIN DO ANY WRONG. Did I not say I liked him and thought highly of him until recently? You keep repeating what Im saying when you point to things like his endorsement of Cuomo!!

 

-He didnt run against Hillary because of health problems, not out of some bipartisan spirit. Dont be naive.

 

I think anyone with any scent of strong leadership that falls well into your political spectrum would be defended through and through by you. Im sure if he supported democrats youd be saying exactly what Im saying. And like I said, if Daley started getting on the national scene falling lock and step with Kerry, Id see him as political. Would I vote for him? Yes. But would I understand why a Republican might think less of him now that he has lost that independant spirit? Of course.

 

Does it matter? WELL THATS A DIFFERENT FRIKKIN ISSUE! But there is no point in talking about what this thread was actually about. Youve clearly taken it for what you want to take it for.

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IT WAS GOOD FOR NEW YORK AND WORTH THE SACRIFICE OF CIVIL LIBERTIES!

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I find this oddly disturbing...

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I dont mean that in an absolutist sense and more a support for cops and prosecutors. Ive worked in a state's attorneys office. I know how difficult things can be. Dont take that out of context.

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But would I understand why a Republican might think less of him now that he has lost that independant spirit? Of course.

 

That's a hell of a lot different than saying he's just spewing "talking points".

 

You liked him until recently because he didn't upset the applecart. That's what started it. And if Daley came onto the scene and supported Kerry, well duh. Who would expect him to support Bush? I would say "Ok, I wasn't exactly expecting the opposite. Daley's a Democrat and a lot of what he believes lines up with JFK the lesser"

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"I don't wear my own faith on my sleeve. But faith has given me values and hope to live by, from Vietnam to this day, from Sunday to Sunday. I don't want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God's side. And whatever our faith, one belief should bind us all: The measure of our character is our willingness to give of ourselves for others and for our country.

 

Loved that quote....

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"I don't wear my own faith on my sleeve. But faith has given me values and hope to live by, from Vietnam to this day, from Sunday to Sunday. I don't want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God's side. And whatever our faith, one belief should bind us all: The measure of our character is our willingness to give of ourselves for others and for our country.

 

Loved that quote....

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Me too! :mischief

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