July 30, 200422 yr Admin, you're a genius. Cliff Floyd traded...great move. Ryan Dempster traded...great move. Matt Clement and Alfonseca traded for Willis...we love it. Preston and CJ traded...great move. Everyone hated Lee for Choi...you proved them wrong. Fans want to get what we need for Nunez and Ray Castro. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Mota - one of the best relievers in the game. The Dodgers will regret this one. Lo Duca - I am not his biggest fan but this is a serious upgrade and he is a team leader. He is the kind of player that will help in the clubhouse as well as on the field. Encarnacion - We know what Juan is. Solid glove, great arm, good speed and a dissapointing bat that should be better. Penny - Solid pitcher. Maybe one day he gets in shape and becomes a great pitcher. The choice has been made between who we keep...Penny or Pavano. Pavs will now get his contract next season. If he does not then I will re-visit this trade and be dissapointed. Choi - Hip-Hop. I will miss him and I wish him all the best. But he is not an All-Star, Paul Lo Duca is. Choi has potential to be even better, but he also has holes in his game. Murphy - A prospect gone. Ya hate to lose him but out of Adrian Gonzalez, Ryan Snare, Will Smith, Danny Bautista and Don Levinski...how they doing? A few still solid potential...some blow ups...some career minor leaguers. We still need a # 5 starter, but this trade makes us a better team. It's now a 7 inning game and no more 1+ inning games for Benitez.
July 30, 200422 yr How was clement and alfonseca for Willis a good deal? Clement is much better than Willis. Penny is only 26. In two years, he will be better than pavano. He is about the same right now. YOU CANNOT TRADE YOUNG STUD PITCHING FOR NOTHING!!!
July 30, 200422 yr How was clement and alfonseca for Willis a good deal? 484490[/snapback] LOLOLOLOLOLOL
July 30, 200422 yr Author How was clement and alfonseca for Willis a good deal? Clement is much better than Willis. Penny is only 26. In two years, he will be better than pavano. He is about the same right now. YOU CANNOT TRADE YOUNG STUD PITCHING FOR NOTHING!!! 484490[/snapback] Swede, I don't disagree wit you but remember that finances matter. Like it or not, they do. Clement and Alfonseca saved us money. We lost Clement and added Redman. We traded Redman for Murphy and now Murphy traded for players for NOW.
July 30, 200422 yr How was clement and alfonseca for Willis a good deal? Clement is much better than Willis. Penny is only 26. In two years, he will be better than pavano. He is about the same right now. YOU CANNOT TRADE YOUNG STUD PITCHING FOR NOTHING!!! 484490[/snapback] Come on. You don't think the Cubs would give us back Clement for Willis? And remember, no Willis, no WS.
July 30, 200422 yr How was clement and alfonseca for Willis a good deal? Clement is much better than Willis. Penny is only 26. In two years, he will be better than pavano. He is about the same right now. YOU CANNOT TRADE YOUNG STUD PITCHING FOR NOTHING!!! 484490[/snapback] Come on. You don't think the Cubs would give us back Clement for Willis? And remember, no Willis, no WS. 484511[/snapback] i'm gonna take a wild guess and say he's a homer cubs fan. that trade was a slam dunk for the marlins.
July 30, 200422 yr Admin, you're a genius. Cliff Floyd traded...great move. Ryan Dempster traded...great move. Matt Clement and Alfonseca traded for Willis...we love it. Preston and CJ traded...great move. Everyone hated Lee for Choi...you proved them wrong. Fans want to get what we need for Nunez and Ray Castro. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Mota - one of the best relievers in the game. The Dodgers will regret this one. Lo Duca - I am not his biggest fan but this is a serious upgrade and he is a team leader. He is the kind of player that will help in the clubhouse as well as on the field. Encarnacion - We know what Juan is. Solid glove, great arm, good speed and a dissapointing bat that should be better. Penny - Solid pitcher. Maybe one day he gets in shape and becomes a great pitcher. The choice has been made between who we keep...Penny or Pavano. Pavs will now get his contract next season. If he does not then I will re-visit this trade and be dissapointed. Choi - Hip-Hop. I will miss him and I wish him all the best. But he is not an All-Star, Paul Lo Duca is. Choi has potential to be even better, but he also has holes in his game. Murphy - A prospect gone. Ya hate to lose him but out of Adrian Gonzalez, Ryan Snare, Will Smith, Danny Bautista and Don Levinski...how they doing? A few still solid potential...some blow ups...some career minor leaguers. We still need a # 5 starter, but this trade makes us a better team. It's now a 7 inning game and no more 1+ inning games for Benitez. 484468[/snapback] Finally a sane person :arms
July 30, 200422 yr I like the trade!! we can't have both apples and oranges, guys...we have a budget!!! Brad Penny wasn't going to be signed, now Pavs will !!! We're getting two top notch players who definitely increase our chances of winning....Paul Lo Duca is now a Marlin!!! I hope that all of you who bitched about him now support this trade.... I'll miss Choi, but the truth is that we have to play our cards appropriately, because we don't have a whole lot of cards....this trade definitely increases our chances of winning...NOW.
July 30, 200422 yr Clements stats He only had one decent year besides this one and theres still some season for him to fuc* up
July 30, 200422 yr Admin, you're a genius. Cliff Floyd traded...great move. Ryan Dempster traded...great move. Matt Clement and Alfonseca traded for Willis...we love it. Preston and CJ traded...great move. Everyone hated Lee for Choi...you proved them wrong. Fans want to get what we need for Nunez and Ray Castro. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Mota - one of the best relievers in the game. The Dodgers will regret this one. Lo Duca - I am not his biggest fan but this is a serious upgrade and he is a team leader. He is the kind of player that will help in the clubhouse as well as on the field. Encarnacion - We know what Juan is. Solid glove, great arm, good speed and a dissapointing bat that should be better. Penny - Solid pitcher. Maybe one day he gets in shape and becomes a great pitcher. The choice has been made between who we keep...Penny or Pavano. Pavs will now get his contract next season. If he does not then I will re-visit this trade and be dissapointed. Choi - Hip-Hop. I will miss him and I wish him all the best. But he is not an All-Star, Paul Lo Duca is.? Choi has potential to be even better, but he also has holes in his game. Murphy - A prospect gone. Ya hate to lose him but out of Adrian Gonzalez, Ryan Snare, Will Smith, Danny Bautista and Don Levinski...how they doing? A few still solid potential...some blow ups...some career minor leaguers. We still need a # 5 starter, but this trade makes us a better team. It's now a 7 inning game and no more 1+ inning games for Benitez. 484468[/snapback] Finally a sane person :arms 484634[/snapback] i couldnt agree with you guys more
July 30, 200422 yr Stag, I agree with you about the finances part. In the end, we probably have to move Penny. My questioning comes with what we got for him. These players don't really help us now.
July 30, 200422 yr Author Stag, I agree with you about the finances part. In the end, we probably have to move Penny. My questioning comes with what we got for him. These players don't really help us now. 484715[/snapback] This is where we have to wait and see. We can all argue how they will do forever. I think Lo Duca and Mota will be HUGE.
July 30, 200422 yr I like the trade, somewhat, I just don't think Choi should have been traded, he was cheap, we traded for players we won't be able to keep longer than just rentals.
July 30, 200422 yr I don't like Choi being dealt but I'm gonna give my thumbs up to this deal....IF they get a 5th starter which I believe they will because they saw they just don't have a 5th starter. Wayne and Bump aint gonna cut it.....Mota is a great reliever and Lo Duca upgrades the catcher's spot. There needs to be more.....and let us not judge this deal until all of them are done.
July 30, 200422 yr I posted this in another thread, but now i see that it should be here: I cannot understand why everyone is lambasting beinfest about this trade. I think this is a tremendous trade for the fish. It was widely agreed that the marlins had outstanding starting pitching prior to the trade, possibly the best five outside a healthy chicago. However, that was their ONLY positive. Offensively, their catcher postion has been worhless; it has been another pitcher's spot in the lineup, an easy out. In fact, i'd rather have most of pitchers up hitting than our "catchers". Secondly, outside of benitez we had a bullpen that might as well have been filled with tee-ball stands. And Choi, whom i do like very much and think that someday will be outstanding, had been very unreliable in RBI situations. After the trade, things are looking much better. We add perhaps BEST non-closer bullpen arm in the league, and a pitcher that would be a closer on most teams if Gagne wasn't present. With Mota, if we have a lead going into the seventh, we have a win. Lo Duca, is a GREAT catcher. He is experienced. He is excellent offensively. And what could be most important, he is a team leader. Lo Duca is a team player that knows how to handle pithcers, and knows how to be a strong clubouse presence. Lastly, do you guys forget how invaluable Encarnacion was to our team last year in winning the wildcard? He had over 90 RBIs. That is tremendous. He plays outstanding defense and sures up another spot in our lineup. Additionally, he might not even be our left fielder as Craig Minarvini is reproting that we might exchange him for Walker, a real offensive stud, in a trade with colorado. With all this said, we detracted from our one proven positive -- starting pitching -- to vastly improve our overall team. Think about it like a video game, with team ratings based on various team-components: Before trade: Starting Pitching: ***** Offense: ** Bullpen: ** After Trade: Starting Pitching: **** Offense: **** Bullpen: **** Now, we are far more balanced team that is far more capable of winning more games, because we are not one dimensional anymore. We have a multi-faceted attack that will keep other teams on their toes. Plus, Penny has been complaining about elbow problems to teammates (reported by ESPN). And he is out of shape, as evident by his "heat stroke" the other day, and his large waist size. This is a good deal for the fish. If we want to improve the overall team, we can't keep everything as is. I think Beinfest is one of the best GMs in baseball, and i don't think he's done working his magic yet. We might still see more to come.
July 31, 200422 yr People think we should be getting Jorge Posada for Ramon castro and Eric Gagne for Lenny harris.. christ almighty. when are people gonna learn that you have to give to get? The fact that Choi was a fan favorite weighs much more heavily in this. He was good for us, but wasn't exactly tearing it up.
July 31, 200422 yr Worst Trade in Marlins history. Bar none. 484721[/snapback] I'm not sure how I feel....I want to wait 24 hours to see if more is done....sleep on it a little. Sometimes the shock of a trade "clouds" judgement. But what's funny is that there's a lot of Dodger fans, on the ESPN boards, that feel the Dodgers got "bent" over pretty good in this trade. The feelings there are about the exact opposite of the feelings here. Probably more Dodger fans are against it.
July 31, 200422 yr Choi wasn't just a fan favorite. He had a good glove and a solid bat capable of a .400 OBP and 25-35 HRs. You don't trade that for a catcher who has struggled every second half of his career (the climate in South Florida is supposed to help?!), sh*t and thirty innings of relief. Oh, and maybe a player who will be on the DL at the end of August.
July 31, 200422 yr Choi wasn't just a fan favorite. He had a good glove and a solid bat capable of a .400 OBP and 25-35 HRs. 484844[/snapback] yup... this trade is a horrendous one for us, and i've reached that conclusion looking only at numbers.
July 31, 200422 yr good trade ... you haters are acting like kids we robbed LA and this is something that will not only help us now but for the future ... since we now have a closer in the making with Mota beinfest is a god
July 31, 200422 yr Do we get a coffee mug if we compliment Beinfest here? Because I smashed one of mine against the wall earlier.
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