October 19, 200421 yr We have a very tough 6 months in front of us as fans of the Florida Marlins. This winter we come to the fork in the road of this team's existance. We have 2 major options before us...will there be a stadium or not. No stadium means no Marlins. It is that simple, sooner or later the wheels will come off and MLB will pull the plug ala Montreal and it would not be pretty. This front office and Major League Baseball are committed to South Florida. Las Vegas, Portland, and any of those others in consideration are inferior to south Florida in market quality and size and everyone knows it. There are 3 things that must be done to keep this team afloat: 1) Get rid of players who don't give us the most value for the money. (This means bye bye Lowell and Pavano is likely as well. I know these are fan favorites, but winning brings more people than these 2. These 2 here next year don't mean we are going to win, so let's clean their payroll off and get some others to improve this squad.) 2) We must support this team loudly in public and politically. 3) We must stay calm and be firm. Ticket prices did go up, but they did give you the chance to see the defending 2003 World Champions in 2004 at 2003 prices. Ground must be made up somewhere. Now, here is the purpose other than that pep talk to start this thread. Everytime someone finds a quote or other snippet of related information to the three points above, please post it here so we can keep a current and easy to find outline of what is happening. Thanks and LET'S GET THIS DONE!
October 19, 200421 yr I fear we will not get the Stadium (or at least not the one that will work in time.) The whole deal is politically corrupt or at least inopportune. Loria is a beggar (exept for Sellig's influence, which is lessening.) We have crooks in baseball and crooks in politics AND we have not demonstrated a South Florida fan base. The Dollars & Sense equation really sucks. Marlins will survive. But, not in South Florida. Get Real.
October 19, 200421 yr Author I fear we will not get the Stadium (or at least not the one that will work in time.) The whole deal is politically corrupt or at least inopportune. Loria is a beggar (exept for Sellig's influence, which is lessening.) We have crooks in baseball and crooks in politics AND we have not demonstrated a South Florida fan base. The Dollars & Sense equation really sucks. Marlins will survive. But, not in South Florida. Get Real. 596263[/snapback] Politically corrupt? Loria a beggar? Burgess is not politically corrupt, I can assure you that. Loria is putting more money into this team than any owner has in the past and being treated by those of your mindset. This deal is $30 million short, that is $1 million a year that the team, city and county are asking for the state to help them cover by asking for a tax rebate. A tex rebate is something that allows the Marlins to keep $1 million a year in sales tax from the new Ballpark to help pay for the ballpark for 30 years. The new ballpark will allow the state to gain more tax revenue because now not only will you have tax money coming in from Pro Player Stadium, but allow the state to collect sales tax from the new Marlins ballpark and improved Orange Bowl. So right now they may get a certain amount of money from PPS and the current Orange Bowl (let's use $15 million a year as an example) If this ballpark is built, let us say that the 3 facilities combined will draw in a certain amount (let's use $20 million a year as an example) Using those low, hypothetical figures....you would have a $5 million a year net profit in sales tax for the state. All the Marlins, City, and County are asking for is to take $1 million a year (this is done by every other sports team in the state in one form or another) from that money to pay for the ballpark. After granting the rebate, the state would see a net profit of $4 million. The County would have a facility to get events like concerts and a possible bowl game and the City has a garage that it can use for the Orange Bowl that it needs badly. The problem with last year's attempt was that the Marlins got there too late and the Senate President Jim King from Jacksonville and House President Byrd from Tampa Bay felt it would seem shady to the public to try and trade legislation with the Orlando Magic and told the Marlins to wait until next year. Now the new leadership in Tallahassee, which I will look up for you, is very interested in this cause and have been in communications with the Marlins, City, and County.
October 19, 200421 yr Loria is a beggar? Are you a fan, because a fan wouldn't talk like this. A fan would want nothing but the best for his team(including the owner) You want to know what he's begging for...that the power that be realize baseball in this town is worth saving with a new home. BUT I guess you impersonating a fan of this team would want nothing less than to see Las Vegas Marlins.
October 19, 200421 yr I fear we will not get the Stadium (or at least not the one that will work in time.) The whole deal is politically corrupt or at least inopportune. Loria is a beggar (exept for Sellig's influence, which is lessening.) We have crooks in baseball and crooks in politics AND we have not demonstrated a South Florida fan base. The Dollars & Sense equation really sucks. Marlins will survive.? But, not in South Florida. Get Real. 596263[/snapback] Politically corrupt? Loria a beggar? Burgess is not politically corrupt, I can assure you that. Loria is putting more money into this team than any owner has in the past and being treated by those of your mindset. This deal is $30 million short, that is $1 million a year that the team, city and county are asking for the state to help them cover by asking for a tax rebate. A tex rebate is something that allows the Marlins to keep $1 million a year in sales tax from the new Ballpark to help pay for the ballpark for 30 years. The new ballpark will allow the state to gain more tax revenue because now not only will you have tax money coming in from Pro Player Stadium, but allow the state to collect sales tax from the new Marlins ballpark and improved Orange Bowl. So right now they may get a certain amount of money from PPS and the current Orange Bowl (let's use $15 million a year as an example) If this ballpark is built, let us say that the 3 facilities combined will draw in a certain amount (let's use $20 million a year as an example) Using those low, hypothetical figures....you would have a $5 million a year net profit in sales tax for the state. All the Marlins, City, and County are asking for is to take $1 million a year (this is done by every other sports team in the state in one form or another) from that money to pay for the ballpark. After granting the rebate, the state would see a net profit of $4 million. The County would have a facility to get events like concerts and a possible bowl game and the City has a garage that it can use for the Orange Bowl that it needs badly. The problem with last year's attempt was that the Marlins got there too late and the Senate President Jim King from Jacksonville and House President Byrd from Tampa Bay felt it would seem shady to the public to try and trade legislation with the Orlando Magic and told the Marlins to wait until next year. Now the new leadership in Tallahassee, which I will look up for you, is very interested in this cause and have been in communications with the Marlins, City, and County. 596274[/snapback] Also Senate President Jim King from Jacksonville and House President Byrd were on Wayne payroll
October 19, 200421 yr Author TealShadow, I know that, but I am not going to go there as they are no longer players. King had an IOU to Wayne for the Jaguars getting in JAX, and Byrd had an IOU to Wayne for the Bucs getting support for Raymond James and many to King for different things that went on between the two chambers.
October 19, 200421 yr I fear we will not get the Stadium (or at least not the one that will work in time.) The whole deal is politically corrupt or at least inopportune. Loria is a beggar (exept for Sellig's influence, which is lessening.) We have crooks in baseball and crooks in politics AND we have not demonstrated a South Florida fan base. The Dollars & Sense equation really sucks. Marlins will survive.? But, not in South Florida. Get Real. 596263[/snapback] Politically corrupt? Loria a beggar? Burgess is not politically corrupt, I can assure you that. Loria is putting more money into this team than any owner has in the past and being treated by those of your mindset. This deal is $30 million short, that is $1 million a year that the team, city and county are asking for the state to help them cover by asking for a tax rebate. A tex rebate is something that allows the Marlins to keep $1 million a year in sales tax from the new Ballpark to help pay for the ballpark for 30 years. The new ballpark will allow the state to gain more tax revenue because now not only will you have tax money coming in from Pro Player Stadium, but allow the state to collect sales tax from the new Marlins ballpark and improved Orange Bowl. So right now they may get a certain amount of money from PPS and the current Orange Bowl (let's use $15 million a year as an example) If this ballpark is built, let us say that the 3 facilities combined will draw in a certain amount (let's use $20 million a year as an example) Using those low, hypothetical figures....you would have a $5 million a year net profit in sales tax for the state. All the Marlins, City, and County are asking for is to take $1 million a year (this is done by every other sports team in the state in one form or another) from that money to pay for the ballpark. After granting the rebate, the state would see a net profit of $4 million. The County would have a facility to get events like concerts and a possible bowl game and the City has a garage that it can use for the Orange Bowl that it needs badly. The problem with last year's attempt was that the Marlins got there too late and the Senate President Jim King from Jacksonville and House President Byrd from Tampa Bay felt it would seem shady to the public to try and trade legislation with the Orlando Magic and told the Marlins to wait until next year. Now the new leadership in Tallahassee, which I will look up for you, is very interested in this cause and have been in communications with the Marlins, City, and County. 596274[/snapback] The plans for the stadiunm are terrible..terrible...terrible..i mean the worst. Loria is poor in the context of other abseball owners and i dont really think he has proven anything. Right now the marlins are 30 mil short, i tell loria put up or shut up...he should front the money not the city. Miami is essentially giving 150 mil free and the land for the stadium. i dont blaim loria for this situation this was john henry's doing he allienated the sate legislature and the marlins may never recover from it.
October 19, 200421 yr I fear we will not get the Stadium (or at least not the one that will work in time.) The whole deal is politically corrupt or at least inopportune. Loria is a beggar (exept for Sellig's influence, which is lessening.) We have crooks in baseball and crooks in politics AND we have not demonstrated a South Florida fan base. The Dollars & Sense equation really sucks. Marlins will survive.? But, not in South Florida. Get Real. 596263[/snapback] Politically corrupt? Loria a beggar? Burgess is not politically corrupt, I can assure you that. Loria is putting more money into this team than any owner has in the past and being treated by those of your mindset. This deal is $30 million short, that is $1 million a year that the team, city and county are asking for the state to help them cover by asking for a tax rebate. A tex rebate is something that allows the Marlins to keep $1 million a year in sales tax from the new Ballpark to help pay for the ballpark for 30 years. The new ballpark will allow the state to gain more tax revenue because now not only will you have tax money coming in from Pro Player Stadium, but allow the state to collect sales tax from the new Marlins ballpark and improved Orange Bowl. So right now they may get a certain amount of money from PPS and the current Orange Bowl (let's use $15 million a year as an example) If this ballpark is built, let us say that the 3 facilities combined will draw in a certain amount (let's use $20 million a year as an example) Using those low, hypothetical figures....you would have a $5 million a year net profit in sales tax for the state. All the Marlins, City, and County are asking for is to take $1 million a year (this is done by every other sports team in the state in one form or another) from that money to pay for the ballpark. After granting the rebate, the state would see a net profit of $4 million. The County would have a facility to get events like concerts and a possible bowl game and the City has a garage that it can use for the Orange Bowl that it needs badly. The problem with last year's attempt was that the Marlins got there too late and the Senate President Jim King from Jacksonville and House President Byrd from Tampa Bay felt it would seem shady to the public to try and trade legislation with the Orlando Magic and told the Marlins to wait until next year. Now the new leadership in Tallahassee, which I will look up for you, is very interested in this cause and have been in communications with the Marlins, City, and County. 596274[/snapback] The plans for the stadiunm are terrible..terrible...terrible..i mean the worst. Loria is poor in the context of other abseball owners and i dont really think he has proven anything. Right now the marlins are 30 mil short, i tell loria put up or shut up...he should front the money not the city. Miami is essentially giving 150 mil free and the land for the stadium. i dont blaim loria for this situation this was john henry's doing he allienated the sate legislature and the marlins may never recover from it. 596294[/snapback] and yes miami politicians are very very corrupt trust me..and if u live here you know it.
October 19, 200421 yr Bravo Capefish! Good argument. Wonderful. Full of Wonder, deplete on Reality. There will be no State support for the Stadium and Local support will be corrupted. I think the deal is almost dead. And a big part of the blame goes to the lousy South Florida fan support. And the crappy South Florida politicians who don't understand the viabliity or consequent revenues.
October 19, 200421 yr Bravo Capefish! Good argument. Wonderful. Full of Wonder, deplete on Reality. There will be no State support for the Stadium and Local support will be corrupted. I think the deal is almost dead. And a big part of the blame goes to the lousy South Florida fan support. And the crappy South Florida politicians who don't understand the viabliity or consequent revenues. 596297[/snapback] i agree.
October 19, 200421 yr Author The plans for the stadiunm are terrible..terrible...terrible..i mean the worst. Loria is poor in the context of other abseball owners and i dont really think he has proven anything. Right now the marlins are 30 mil short, i tell loria put up or shut up...he should front the money not the city. Miami is essentially giving 150 mil free and the land for the stadium. i dont blaim loria for this situation this was john henry's doing he allienated the sate legislature and the marlins may never recover from it. 596294[/snapback] Loria is putting up $20 million of equity up front, pay $127 million over 32 years as rent, and the fans will pay a ticket surcharge adding up to $10 million. Team is putting forth a net amount of $157 million. That would be 42.7% of the entire $367 million pricetag. The city shall pay $28 million from the existing Tourist Development Tax. The county will pay $120 million from different Convention Developments Taxes including those that used to go to the Miami Arena. Source: http://www.ci.miami.fl.us/pressreleases/do...%20Ballpark.pdf Now let me look at how much other owners put up and see who is being fair or not. The legislature is not alienated, they just need the time to write up the legislation and they will. They have done it for everyone before and just did it for Magic last session year. Have faith and send letters or e-mails to Tallahassee showing them support for getting it done. It is a bi-partisan effort.
October 19, 200421 yr Author County Manager Burgess is handling this...there could not be a better man for this. This will get done, we just have a race against the clock unless the new mayor is pro-Ballpark.
October 19, 200421 yr Author I also forgot to state the Marlins would cover any cost overruns and run the cosntruction process therefore keeping the corruption out. I lived in Dade and Broward Counties for many years, my parents both worked for Dade County over 50 years combined...we just need Tallahassee to grant this.
October 19, 200421 yr 1 million dollars a year for 30 years is nothing. the state legislature spends more money on ass scratchers for the seats in the chamber.
October 19, 200421 yr Author New Ballparks, Contributions by Teams/Owners: Bank One Ballpark: $111 million Citizen's Bank Park: $172 million Coors Field: $47 million Great American Ballpark: None that I could find Miller Park: $90 million Minute Maid Park: $52 million PETCO Park: $153 million private sector contribution PNC Park (w/ Heinz Field): $85M from the Pirates and Steelers Turner Field: None Ameriquest Field: $56 million Comerica Park: $185 million Jacobs Field: $91 million Oriole Park: None that I could find Safeco Field: $75 million from Mariners owners. Cost overruns of over $100 million are still being settled. Tropicana Field: $70 million (1998) US Cellular Field: None SBC Park in San Francisco was the first privately funded ballpark built for Major League Baseball since Dodger Stadium opened in 1962. The land was leased to them by the Port of San Francisco.
October 19, 200421 yr i just cant believe how people are ok with the way this is going down. have any of you been to the orange bowl site? this is a terrible place to add more conjestion. I for one go to 3 games a week i cant see myself driving into little havana in heavy traffic in a dirty nasty area with little to no parking no matter how much i love the team. this isnt New york, Chicago, or Boston where an already conjested area can handle more conjestion. we have no public transportation system here! i for one think that loria won't front the difference because what he is getting himself into in the long run wont be succesful.
October 19, 200421 yr Author Let me make one point to all you Loria haters: Him getting the stadium deal done means that he must pay the loan from MLB he used to buy the team payed back. If he were going to do what you all claim...why would he be trying seriously and spending so much money of lobbyists, lawyers, and architects for something that he has no plans on intending to carry out? He is going to waste $5 million and ruin baseball in one market as well as put himself in debt from losing money on the team's operating losses just to move to Las Vegas or Portland?
October 19, 200421 yr i just cant believe how people are ok with the way this is going down. have any of you been to the orange bowl site? this is a terrible place to add more conjestion. I for one go to 3 games a week i cant see myself driving into little havana in heavy traffic in a dirty nasty area with little to no parking no matter how much i love the team. this isnt New york, Chicago, or Boston where an already conjested area can handle more conjestion. we have no public transportation system here! i for one think that loria won't front the difference because what he is getting himself into in the long run wont be succesful. 596313[/snapback] that's what they said about the denver area where coors field is currently. a stadium would help clean up the area. no doubt, you have 81 games plus the UM games plus other events. then you have the metro rail station that will be put in around 2012. then you have all those high rises going up in the downtown area with all the rich people, which is what the fanbase needs (more season ticket holders.)
October 19, 200421 yr Author i just cant believe how people are ok with the way this is going down. have any of you been to the orange bowl site? this is a terrible place to add more conjestion. I for one go to 3 games a week i cant see myself driving into little havana in heavy traffic in a dirty nasty area with little to no parking no matter how much i love the team. this isnt New york, Chicago, or Boston where an already conjested area can handle more conjestion. we have no public transportation system here! i for one think that loria won't front the difference because what he is getting himself into in the long run wont be succesful. 596313[/snapback] By 2007 MetroRail will be out there with shuttle buses running between existing stations regularly for game day like at Coors and the road system will be changed in preparation for this. It's South Florida....traffic is everywhere.
October 19, 200421 yr i just cant believe how people are ok with the way this is going down. have any of you been to the orange bowl site? this is a terrible place to add more conjestion. I for one go to 3 games a week i cant see myself driving into little havana in heavy traffic in a dirty nasty area with little to no parking no matter how much i love the team. this isnt New york, Chicago, or Boston where an already conjested area can handle more conjestion. we have no public transportation system here! i for one think that loria won't front the difference because what he is getting himself into in the long run wont be succesful. 596313[/snapback] By 2007 MetroRail will be out there with shuttle buses running between existing stations regularly for game day like at Coors and the road system will be changed in preparation for this. It's South Florida....traffic is everywhere. 596319[/snapback] that's why people need to vote yes for the transportation part of the bond.
October 19, 200421 yr Author that's what they said about the denver area where coors field is currently. a stadium would help clean up the area. no doubt, you have 81 games plus the UM games plus other events. then you have the metro rail station that will be put in around 2012. then you have all those high rises going up in the downtown area with all the rich people, which is what the fanbase needs (more season ticket holders.) 596318[/snapback] Exactly. Denver and San Diego did this. Search Google for Rockies Ride or Padres Park and Ride or go to my Newspage. Here my article on this subject: http://capefish.blogspot.com/2004/07/stree...amed-miami.html
October 19, 200421 yr i just cant believe how people are ok with the way this is going down. have any of you been to the orange bowl site? this is a terrible place to add more conjestion. I for one go to 3 games a week i cant see myself driving into little havana in heavy traffic in a dirty nasty area with little to no parking no matter how much i love the team. this isnt New york, Chicago, or Boston where an already conjested area can handle more conjestion. we have no public transportation system here! i for one think that loria won't front the difference because what he is getting himself into in the long run wont be succesful. 596313[/snapback] By 2007 MetroRail will be out there with shuttle buses running between existing stations regularly for game day like at Coors and the road system will be changed in preparation for this. It's South Florida....traffic is everywhere. 596319[/snapback] LOL, please come on. I know that traffic is everywhere thats my exact point. I am not going to enter more traffic for something that i can watch at home. that is gonna be the gernal consesus. The problem is that that area is extremely crowded and unwelcoming in regards to daily events. It just wont work. I LOVE THE MARLINS, if i didnt i wouldnt be in here posting and trying to discuss the issues. Im just tired of having owners, politicians, and players piss in my ear and tell me its raining.
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