This could be the biggest and bloodies op since the initial invasion. If anyone has anything to add about Fallujah be it pictures, articles, etc go for it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200411/s1236326.htm

 

Somewhat old news.

 

An Iraqi military commander has deserted US forces hours after he received a full briefing on US military plans to storm the rebel-held city of Fallujah, CNN has reported.

 

The pool report sent to Reuters and other media from a US marine unit quoted US officers as saying the desertion of the unidentified captain, a Kurdish company commander, would not change plans to retake the city before elections scheduled for January 27.

 

 

I've also heard reports of half an Iraqi unit deserting. I'll try and find an article on it.

Some good pics of the insurgents and stuff here.

How about that Peterson trial eh? I hear the jury might be hung!

It appears that we will carpet bomb the city to oblivion before venturing inside.

Yeah, so we kill all the civilians, so we know when we go in who has the rabbit holes, meaning they are terrorists.

Reports say the insurgents have their most sophisticated defenses in the Jolan Neighborhood. This morning we took over the Hospital and the 2 bridges shown on the map and have the city basically surrounded.

It appears that we will carpet bomb the city to oblivion before venturing inside.

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Its only a few square miles, rebuilding it from scratch might actually be a reasonable approach...

 

Give the populace a few days to leave - nobody gets out toting a weapon.

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We are already moving in.

 

Click here for the latest reportage...rtsp://real.washingtonpost.speedera.net/real.washingtonpost/msnbc/ms110804-5v.rm

http://www.tnr.com/blog/iraqd?pid=2376

 

NPR's Anne Garrels, embedded with the Marines in Falluja, reports that desertions among the Iraqis assigned to take the city go far beyond the one captain:

 

The Iraqi battalion which is attached to a Marine regiment I'm with has shrunk from over 500 men in just two weeks down to 170. Two hundred and fifty five men alone deserted over this weekend.

Photos from the front

FALLUJAH, Iraq - U.S. Army and Marine units pushed into the center of Fallujah on Tuesday, fighting with bands of guerrillas in the streets and searching house to house in a powerful advance on the second day of a major offensive to retake the insurgent stronghold. U.S. military officials said that 10 American and 2 Iraqi troops had been killed in the fighting so far, while they reported imposing "significant casualties" against the enemy.

 

Lt. Gen. Thomas F. Metz, commander of multinational forces in Iraq, addressing reporters on Tuesday predicted "several more days of tough urban fighting." He said insurgents were "fighting hard, but not to the death. They are falling back," adding that the U.S. advance was progressing "ahead of schedule."

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6403689/

 

Looks like the insurgents are escaping or escaped again.

 

Anyone have any thought as to our options now? From Kos:

 

Again, once we take this city (and there was never any doubt we would), the US is faced with one of two unpalatable options:

 

 

1 Withdraw and leave the Iraqis in charge, which would be the same as leaving the insurgents in charge; or

 

2 Stay, garrison the city, and face a steady stream of car bomb and sniper attacks.

 

 

Last time we left the city to the Iraqis they left and the city was overrun with insurgents once again.

And what has been accomplished by this bold, decisive action? From the MSNBC report:

The drive to retake Fallujah risked alienating further many Iraqis. A prominent Sunni party, the Iraqi Islamic Party, announced it was pulling out its single Cabinet member, Industry Minister Hajim Al-Hassani, from the Iraqi government in protest against the Fallujah assault.

 

And a powerful group of Sunni Muslim clerics called Tuesday for a boycott of national elections. Harith al-Dhari, director of the Association of Muslim Scholars, said the elections were being held "over the corpses of those killed in Fallujah and the blood of the wounded."

 

 

 

What happens if the Sunnis don't participate in elections? tonyi?

Very good post I saw:

 

Seriously. All of those tax dollars spent at military colleges for all of those years and we still haven't learned that you cannot fight an asymetrical war with WWII tactics. This is the definition of insanity. The only way you can beat a guerilla insergency is to poison the ocean they swim in. There are two options:

 

Ruthlessness. This option basically puts an iron fist on the populace. Destroy anybody or anything that even smells like it supports the resistance. In this case, we would be better to just bomb Fallujah back to the stone age. Anybody left should be sumarily and publicly executed. I don't think even the most rabid right-wingers would seriously go for this option.

 

Hearts and Minds. Win over the populace so that they no longer support the insurgance. I think this ship has long sailed.

 

What we are trying now is some half-assed carrot and stick approach. All it is going to do is increase the insurgancy and the Iraqis distane

Sunni clerics are already calling on Sunnis to boycott the elections.

Someone I know, but not a close friend, Mike, was killed in action in Fallujah just today. He, unfortunately, died a slow death, succumbing to gunshot and knife wounds after hours of pain. May God rest his soul. God be with our troops. †

I like how people pray to god in during a war. I am sure he is looking down with a big smile at what is going on.

 

God delievered the Jews to salvation, maybe he was cooking up something non-violent for the Iraqis? So much for faith in your savior I guess.

 

Another thing I don't get is these althetes that pray right before the scratch their scrotum and spit their tobacoo.

Hey ass hat,

 

I'm not saying God's on our side. I'm just asking the God I believe in to be with our men and women in uniform.

Bet he loved that one.

Just as much as America did (not at all).

 

 

What the f*** is your problem dude, the election was a week ago, and you're being s***ty about our servicemen and women.

 

There's a place in f***ing Fallujah with your name on it. They'll even put your f***ing video on the internet when they behead you.

 

It's pretty simple

I just don't see why people like you have to bring god into this. Is this a holy war? The people there wanted to be there. You are asking god to look after some people to wipe out other people because of their beliefs. If you think god is great and almighty, if he thought what was going on in Iraq was such atrosities wouldn't he have done something about it?

I just don't see why people like you have to bring god into this. Is this a holy war? The people there wanted to be there. You are asking god to look after some people to wipe out other people because of their beliefs. If you think god is great and almighty, if he thought what was going on in Iraq was such atrosities wouldn't he have done something about it?

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1) When I say "God bless our troops" that's just what I mean, it's a very vague statement. I'm not saying my God is better than theirs, I'm not even saying my God exists. But our troops are comforted by knowing that there are those of us at home praying for them. Does that matter to you?

 

2) Our troops aren't wiping out people "because of their beliefs." They're doing their job, and if you want to get specific, they're liberating a nation. This is not a holy war on our side (but it's just the opposite to our enemies).

 

3) I personally don't believe that God changes much here on Earth like the way you're saying. No, he wouldn't just come down and do something about it. I think He works with individuals and the way THEY can make a difference. To sum it up, we have a choice of being God's tools for making the world a better place.

 

Besides, if Earth were happy and perfect... we wouldn't desire heaven that much.

Most of people who don't know what they are doing are probably dead by now.

A Marine gets a moment for a smoke Tuesday in Fallujah. By Luis Sinco, Los Angeles Times via AP

Retired general lays out our strategy

 

James A. Marks, a retired Army major general, was the senior intelligence officer for the coalition land forces during last year's invasion of Iraq

 

Excerpt:

What can we expect in the next few days? Unlike last year's invasion, in which the military's primary goal was to defeat the Iraqi troops and move toward Baghdad, the fight in Falluja is about taking terrain and holding it. It does no good to push the insurgents out and move on. They are like water; they will flow right back into any void.

 

This is why the military placed so much importance on taking the roads that lead into the city and securing a foothold. They will not be given back. Controlling access into and out of Falluja is key; with no escape possible, the enemy must surrender or die.

 

This is also why the military will likely launch a number of "lillypad" operations, in which forces move by ground or air into a contested area, kill insurgents and then return to a secure base to refuel and rearm. While this doesn't gain territory, it sends a psychologically devastating message: we will go where we want to go.

i just read an article on fox, that most of the insurgents in fallujah have fled the city already