Wild Card I'm looking at your roster right now. Its an 11-5 patchwork roster. Its good but not as good as you think it is.

Tell me one team that has a more talented roster than Miami, and show me why. Nothing else can change your judgement. Just going by the talent on the roster, who can you name?

Tampa Bay

Green Bay

Washington

Tennessee

Oakland

 

Tampa Bay- Best defense of all time. Period.

 

 

Green Bay- Favre, Green, Henderson, Franks, Driver, Rivera, Flanagan, Sharper, McKenzie, Biamila, Longwell all of them are All Pro Talent.

 

Washington- Dan Snider is a rich little snob.

 

Tennessee- Great defense. Solid all around team. McNair, George, Wycheck, Mason or Dyson (i mix the 2 up )

 

Oakland- Overrated team. Great roster. Gannon, Garner, Wheatley, Jolley, Rice, Brown, Porter, Woodson, Romanowski, Stubbafield

Tampa Bay might be the only team I can agree with. The Raiders are overrated, and aging. Tennesee can't touch Miami talent wise. Washington has talent, but not THAT much. Green Bay also has a lot of talent.

 

I would probably say Miami, Green Bay, and Tampa (in no order) have the most talent.

 

HOWEVER, you named those on the Packers with all-pro talent. Here's Miami's current and former all-pro's (off the top of my head): Jason Taylor, Tim Bowens, Rob Burnett, Zach Thomas, Junior Seau, Sam Madison, Patrick Surtain, Brock Maroion, Sammy Knight, Brian Greise, Ricky Williams.

 

And I can still name some players who do have Pro Bowl "talent" but have never been...

Wild Card PM me your phone number. I will call you and personally explain to you why the Fins won't be that good.

 

Man your such a cool guy. But when you sit here and say that 14-2 is a realistic thing, I'm sorry man. But I'm only a few months older then you and I realize just how good every team really is.

 

The Titans are the best in the AFC because they can work as a team. The Pats can too. Thats the other thing the Fins don't do. They really don't know how to work as a team. And that fault lays at the feet of Dave Wannstedt.

 

Teams like Green Bay, Tampa, Philly, Tennessee, New England, even Oakland (their still overrated) work as teams. Thats how you win.

 

And if I'm wrong about the Fins which I doubt I am. Then I'm wrong. But I know I'm not wrong.

 

WC please just PM me your phone number and we can have a great talk about the Fins. And I can explain to you better on the phone then on the net about the Fins.

I never said 14-2 was realistic. lol. I said if they all played to what they're capable of they could do that, but they won't. And the whole perpose of acquiring Junior Seau was to improve leadership, chemistry, ect. I don't see how a team that has 11 Pro Bowlers on its roster can go 9-7. 9 of those pro bowlers are on the defense, and 2 of the 11 aren't even starters. That might give you an idea of how much talent there is... And Wanny no longer handles ANY of the offensive play calling. It all now belongs to one of the best offensive coordinaters in the game, Norv Turner. The defense will partially be handled by Wanny, mostly by Bates, again one of the NFL's best defensive coordinaters. I don't trust Wanny that much, but the supporting cast of coaches leads me to believe Dave won't effect that much.

Hey man good point.

 

Fact is though. Its still Wannys job to make sure team chemisty is good. And he has never been good with that.

 

Norv Turner is overrated as a Coach. I was never impressed with his offenses in Washington or San Diego.

 

Your defense is undoubtedly good. And Seau well I should call him and get his take on it , but he won't affect team chemistry. He also won't be that productive on the field.

 

But HE WILL be a positive influence on your young players and is a defenite plus in the locker room. But that doesn't help you guys on the field as much as he would have 5 or 6 years ago.

 

I will admit, I wouldn't be surprised to see you guys go 11-5. But that is very outside. And very unlikely. 10-6 or 9-7 is still more like it.

 

If you don't think that a team with loads of Pro Bowlers can go 9-7 or worse.

 

The Packers team that went 8-8 had 2 players that will be in the Hall of Fame and 6 other players that were Pro Bowl talents.

 

The team that holds the record for Pro Bowlers is a Panthers team that went 6-10 and had 11 Pro Bowlers that season. So don't give me your pro bowler argument buddy.

 

Because I laugh at it. :lol :lol :lol :lol

Hey Wildcard he is hopeless...Every one who knows football and know what they are talking about know that Miami is loaded.Green Bay is not more talented than Miami and I'm not going to sit here explain because I already did over at Dolphins forums when it was bombarded with Cheese heads.

Minus.

 

You obviously don't get it.

 

I'm very realistic. Where is the link to Dolphins Forums? I really want to go there!

Its funny how you say EVERYONE says the Fins are loaded. When really everyone at ESPN, Fox, SI, and major NFL Publications pick you guys to go 9-7 or 10-6.

 

Griese isn't some kind of god like his Dad. Seau is old and slow but is a good locker room guy. Your offense still lacks at WR, TE, OL in depth. Your Defense is without question one of the premier units in the league.

 

But the Intangibles seem to get you guys year in and year out. Wannstedt NEVER has you guys ready ever. He hires people that call conservatively on offense. For those who say Norv Turner is some kind of genius, yes 53.8% of your plays last year were Running Plays. I guess that explains Ricky Williams 1800 yds. (still an impressive total and proves he is a great back). But also shows that Turner doesn't have confidence in Fiedler or the WRs or TEs.

 

You guys ALWAYS fade down the stretch.

 

Minus you can be paper champions. You can look loaded going into the season. Thats fine. Because paper champions are just that. Paper champions. You guys always look loaded going into the season. But for some reason or another just dont do it.

 

You guys will start off 6-2 or 7-1 and you and the other Fin Fans will be telling me "told ya so". And thats fine. Because you guys will lose in Late November and Decmeber.

 

Go to a nuetral disscussion forum like the ESPN NFL boards and you'll see that most fans see 9-7 and 10-6 in your futures.

 

Minus I assume you are one of the fans who saw Super Bowl in your futures last year?

Okay to settle this debate.

 

 

We will find out in December and January. Period.

 

Minus, Wild Card its great debating with you guys!

Its funny how you say EVERYONE says the Fins are loaded. When really everyone at ESPN, Fox, SI, and major NFL Publications pick you guys to go 9-7 or 10-6.

Actually, every prediction on Miami I've seen has ranged from 11-5 to 13-3. And half the predictions I see have Miami winning the AFC. You're the lone ranger on this Phlub.

 

Norv Turner is overrated as a Coach. I was never impressed with his offenses in Washington or San Diego.

 

Norv Turner is the sole reason Ricky Wiliams has a rushing title...

Sean Salisbury, Steve Young, Reggie White, Tom Jackson, Sterling Sharpe, S-I Online Writers, Bradshaw, Howie Long, Jimmy Johnson ALL say 9-7 or 10-6. I'm forgetting a few more writers right now also. Thats about 1/4 of those who predict 9-7/10-6. Jimmy Johnson even agrees to it man.

 

Wild Card we'll see in December, so just wait.

Phlub show me the links to those predictions...

Wow to say something like that about the best offesive cordinator in the game is ridiculous.Just take a look back at what he accomplish running team offense from his days in Dallas to Washington.

 

Just look what he did in '99 with Redskins.

 

-4,000 Yard passer

 

-2 1,000 Yards receivers WRs- Neither of the WR's they have had a 1000 yard before and after that year. Hell, neither of them are in the NFL anymore.

 

1,400 Yard Running Back

 

Only team to ever accomplish those stats and Phlub sit here saying he is overated?I bet if he was in his belove green an gold that he would be worshiping this guy.

I bet if he was in his belove green an gold that he would be worshiping this guy.

At least Brett Farve, Ahmad Green, and Donald Driver would...

Actually a good friend of my fathers Tom Moore with the Colts or Mike Tretsman with the Raiders are the best in the game in my opinion.

 

I said Norv is overrated as a Coach and not a Coordinator.

 

Norv Turner is overrated as a Head Coach.

 

And if Turner is such a savior, 26th ranked passing game. Fielder, Chambers, and McMichael must be great to get a 26th ranked Pass Attack. The signature of a GREAT coordinator is that of one who can get his team to effectively run and pass the ball. Turner never had that balance except for one year in Washington.

 

Here is all the Picks I have read in Magazines and Seen on TV...

 

Pro Football Weekly: 9-7 3rd Place

 

Lindsey's Pro Football Extra: 8-8 4th Place

 

Street and Smiths Picks Miami: 3rd Place in the AFC East (no record picked)

 

Fox Sports Net (Jimmy Johnson, Terry Bradshaw, & Howie Long) Pick the Fins: All pick you guys to be at 3rd Place at 9-7

 

SI Online From the CNN/SI cable Channel: 9-7 3rd Place

 

Packer Plus -Reggie White- : 9-7 4th Place

 

ESPNEWS (Steve Young, Sean Salisbury, Tom Jackson) pick Miami to be:

Young- 8-8 4th Place in Division

Salisbury- 10-6 3rd Place in Division

Jackson- 9-7 3rd Place in Division

 

I think those pics say something.

I want LINKS

Read magazines. Watch TV. Thats where I saw this all.

 

Street and Smiths is on Newstands now.

 

So is Lindsey's Pro Football Extra

 

Packer Plus is nothing you'd read.

 

Watch NFL 2night and ESPNEWS and the Best Damn Sports Show Period

 

I can't find links. But I'm sure the ESPN, Fox, and SI Online Picks are on their websites. I'm still looking on the sites though.

 

Maybe you just dont wanna face that the Fins arent picked to be that good WC...

I want to see links...

How can I give you links to something I saw on TV last week?

How can I give you links to something I saw on TV last week?

If you want me to believe you, you need links, or PROOF.

Watch TV. Thats your proof. Sorry, there is no links.

 

Go to newstands. Pick up magazines. Read. You'll see, the Fins aren't favored to do anything.

Every prediction I've heard has been inbetween 11-5 and 13-3...

Get on MSN WC.

 

 

http://profootballweekly.com/PFW/Commentar...nacek070903.htm

 

Theres a column on Griese.

 

 

But as of now there is no picks on the net.

 

WC lets see your picks of 11-5/13-3, wheres YOUR links?

WC lets see your picks of 11-5/13-3, wheres YOUR links?

Just like you...

 

Those are what I've heard on TV...

And you know what? I actually believe you. You should believe me.

 

But what experts made the 13-3 picks?