July 25, 200323 yr Heres the Link from where i got the Pic from: http://www.andruw.com/profiles/sheffield.html Around Midway thru there should be the picture...
July 25, 200323 yr Dammitt, I lost the arguement. I feel so worthless.... I don't think Sham or WC will let me forget this if Lee wakes up....And trust me, I won't let them forget it if Lee continues to dirty his knees in the second half. Either way it wont bother me...I know hes a very good player.
July 25, 200323 yr I have to agree with the Derrek Lee Fan Club... Derrek Lee at first is a better option than Kendall :plain
July 25, 200323 yr Thinking about long-term here with "the Kendall Postulate" (as I'm now referring to it)
July 25, 200323 yr I am not a Lee hater, but I cant deal with this. I have to set the record straight. I cant deal with the misiinformation Shamrock and Wild Card are dealing here - a little knowledge is truly a dangerous thing. First off, one of you said Lee is batting .500 with runners on 2nd and 3rd, correct? Well, that is true, but what you failed to mention is that he has only had 4 ABs! 2 for 4??!! C'mon... How about 1st and 3rd? .333, but only 9 AB's... 1st and 2nd? .259, 27 ABs... Bases Loaded? .000, 0 for 8... Now for home vs. road. Home .217 6HR, 27RBI .727 OPS. Road .288 15HR 30RBI .950OPS. Compare him to Giambi (which is ridiculous, but you did it) Home .246 8Hr 30RBI .856OPS Road .280 20HR 49RBI 1.064OPS I fail to see how you could actually compare Lee to Giambi. I even fail to see how you could rely on such scant statistics to prove Lee is a very good hitter, let alone comparing him to a great hitter like Giambi. And Giambi is certainly having a down year. Lee is right about on stride for his typical year. Now, I like Lee for now, and I dont think he is hurting us too much. If we can fill the void in LF, we can make due. But I dont want us to trade the farm to get Giles, that would be way too much. I dont want White either, the guy is garbage. Guillen may be useful, but his price may be too steep too. If they take Neal, Wayne, and Grilli or Bridges, I am fine with that...but I dont know if that is enough.
July 25, 200323 yr I dont even believe in situational stats and I wasnt trying to skew those stats in favor of Lee. You just proved my entire argument by saying the sample is too small. Your basing your judgement on 105 AB's with RISP while I'm basing mine on more then 400AB's.
July 25, 200323 yr I didnt even mention his .900 OPS with a runner on second base which encompasses half his AB's with RISP. Which you neglected to include...so... :mischief2
July 25, 200323 yr Compare him to Giambi (which is ridiculous, but you did it) Home .246 8Hr 30RBI .856OPS Road .280 20HR 49RBI 1.064OPS I believe the original comment was something to the effect that Derrek Lee's road numbers are similar to Giambi's overall numbers... Lee on the road: .288 BA, .950 OPS Giambi overall: .262 BA, .961 OPS Doesn't seem like such a ridiculous comparison to me.
July 25, 200323 yr I think it was when they won the World Series and the were Celebrating... I doubt it. Sheffield didn't hit a HR in game 7, Bonilla did to put the first run in the 7th inning if memory doesn't fail me. I did some research. First, it was a championship series, all the players have some sort of shoulder patch, but it doesn't look like a World Series patch. If we assume that this picture is of the celebration of a Sheffield's HR, and that it was a home game, then the World Series is all but ruled out: Sheffield didn't hit a HR in any of the home games of the WS. His only HR in the WS came in Cleveland, game 3, the one we won 14 to 11. Therefore, assuming it is a HR they are celebrating, we are left with only two games: (1) during the division series against San Francisco, game 2; or (2) during the NL champioship series against Atlanta, game 3. Take your pick...
July 25, 200323 yr I never said he hit a HR in the game 7 I said the pictures Looks there celebrating the World Series..
July 25, 200323 yr I never said he hit a HR in the game 7 I said the pictures Looks there celebrating the World Series.. I know. I never said you did. I am only working on the assumption that it was a HR what they were celebrating. It could have been easily a double that scored Sheffield, but there are too many people around the guy celebrating. I don't know. The picture in the website said Game7, which is wrong.
July 25, 200323 yr I never said he hit a HR in the game 7 I said the pictures Looks there celebrating the World Series.. You know what? My feeling tells me this is Game 3 of the Championship Series against Atlanta. You know, right after losing Alex Fernandex to the rotator-cuff injury the previous game? It would make sense. It can't be the WS because Sheffield didn't hit one at home during the WS, and it is obviously a home game.
July 26, 200323 yr Compare him to Giambi (which is ridiculous, but you did it) Home .246 8Hr 30RBI .856OPS Road .280 20HR 49RBI 1.064OPS I believe the original comment was something to the effect that Derrek Lee's road numbers are similar to Giambi's overall numbers... Lee on the road: .288 BA, .950 OPS Giambi overall: .262 BA, .961 OPS Doesn't seem like such a ridiculous comparison to me. Of course you dont think that would be such a ridiculous comparison - BECAUSE IT FAVORS YOUR SIDE OF THE ARGUMENT! Why wouldnt you compare Lee's Home numbers to Giambi's overall, would that be ridiculous?? Lee is a good 1B. I am not one of his haters. But I do think that there are those of you (Sham, Wild Card) who oversell him and some of you are just haters of the guy. He plays good D, has excellent power. His biggest flaw is that he K's a lot and usually performs when it doesnt matter. If he cut down on his long swing, he would be able to get his bat through the zone faster and not be so susceptible to inside whiffs. I think that is something that he has been working on, and something that he will, with time, fix. I like Lee, but it isnt like he is irreplaceable - and when it comes to money, I would rather Lowell than Lee. But Sham, I fail to see how only 105 ABs with RISP is a good indication of how he is a good hitter - because he hasnt exactly thrived in those situations in the first place. And it is funny how you guys are trying to gauge how good of a hitter he is in 'clutch' situations when one of you doesnt even believe the word exists...Oh, and he doesnt have a .900 OPS with runners on 2nd, that would be .880 and that is with 43 ABs out of 105 with RISP. Pretty solid, and like you pointed out 45% of the time more or less. But since you like stats, here are some more: with no one on: .262 13HR .868OPS (202AB) with runners on: .247 8HR .824OPS (162AB) Overall, a better hitter with no one on than with someone on base. You cannot argue against that. And as long as you play 1B, you are SUPPOSED to be one of the biggest run producers on the team. Lee is solid, but dont oversell him.
July 26, 200323 yr Lee is a good 1B. I am not one of his haters. But I do think that there are those of you (Sham, Wild Card) who oversell him and some of you are just haters of the guy. He plays good D, has excellent power. His biggest flaw is that he K's a lot and usually performs when it doesnt matter. If he cut down on his long swing, he would be able to get his bat through the zone faster and not be so susceptible to inside whiffs. I think that is something that he has been working on, and something that he will, with time, fix. I like Lee, but it isnt like he is irreplaceable - and when it comes to money, I would rather Lowell than Lee. But Sham, I fail to see how only 105 ABs with RISP is a good indication of how he is a good hitter - because he hasnt exactly thrived in those situations in the first place. And it is funny how you guys are trying to gauge how good of a hitter he is in 'clutch' situations when one of you doesnt even believe the word exists...Oh, and he doesnt have a .900 OPS with runners on 2nd, that would be .880 and that is with 43 ABs out of 105 with RISP. Pretty solid, and like you pointed out 45% of the time more or less. But since you like stats, here are some more: with no one on: .262 13HR .868OPS (202AB) with runners on: .247 8HR .824OPS (162AB) Overall, a better hitter with no one on than with someone on base. You cannot argue against that. And as long as you play 1B, you are SUPPOSED to be one of the biggest run producers on the team. Lee is solid, but dont oversell him. Jon you are totally misunderstanding me. I think Lee is above average, nothing more. The only reason I'm so vehemently defending Lee is because people think a 37 yr old player is more skilled then him. But their definition of a player is how many RBI's does he have and they can only be in crucial situations. Which is ridiculous. THE SMALL SAMPLE SIZE IS MY WHOLE POINT! I said because of his previous success of over 400AB's with RISP how can you guys turn around and say all of a sudden hes forgotten to hit with RISP in 105AB's? Can you start to see where I'm coming from now? This is more about defeating the myth of the clutch hitter then defending Derrek Lee. If he was so awesome with RISP the last 3 seasons, how come hes struggled this season? Did he just forget? Or does he buckle under the pressure like you guys say? Or is it just a statistical abberation? I doubt people like minus can grasp this, but I believe you, over time will see where I'm coming from. And your last point. Again Lee had great success with RISP the last 3 seasons. He did not all of a sudden become terrible at it. And BTW he has a much higer % of his homeruns with runners on then most players.
July 26, 200323 yr And thats all Im trying to say...hes solid and YOUNG! Which means his power will only increase....not to mention he will probably never get injured.
July 26, 200323 yr Why wouldnt you compare Lee's Home numbers to Giambi's overall, would that be ridiculous?? Well, sort of, yes. The reason comparing Lee's road numbers to Giambi's overall numbers has merit is because Lee plays in perhaps the best pitcher's park in baseball (while Giambi plays in one of the better hitter's park, esp. for lefties), and a lot of Lee's power is to center field, where fly balls go to die in PPS. A good portion of Lee's lesser production at home can be directly attributed to park effects (when watching the Marlins-Braves on TBS, the commentators stated that Bill Robinson has calculated 10 potential home runs that turned into outs because of Pro Player's dimensions). Lee's numbers on the road are probably a more accurate gauge of his true ability, since those numbers represent more "normal" ballparks. It's the same reason why you wouldn't compare anyone's numbers to a player from the Rockies. and usually performs when it doesnt matter. I fail to see how only 105 ABs with RISP is a good indication of how he is a good hitter - because he hasnt exactly thrived in those situations in the first place You seem to be contradicting yourself with these two statements. In the first sentence, you criticize him for not performing when it matters, and in the second, you state that he can't be judged on 105 ABs with RISP (which is the point Shamrock has been trying to make all along). If you don't feel that 105 ABs is a good indication of his hitting, then how can you also criticize him for not performing when it matters (since "when it matters" consists of those 105 ABs)?
July 26, 200323 yr Cut with Derek Lee arguments almost every single thread that gets started turns into a Lee argument. Here here ! Enough is enough.
July 26, 200323 yr Here here ! Enough is enough. Misinformation must be battled at every turn! No matter the costs of our sanity
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