August 7, 200520 yr http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-mik...ports-headlines Marlins wanted Soriano Source: 3-way deal halted by O's ownerPublished August 7, 2005 No one knows for sure how serious the Rangers were about moving Alfonso Soriano, but two sources with knowledge of the talks insist the Marlins made a strong push for him the weekend before the deadline. According to one source, the Marlins "were a contender" and the deal "definitely could have happened," but only if they had been able to spin off pitcher Sidney Ponson in a three-way deal with the Orioles. The Marlins and Orioles would have eaten the bulk of Ponson's $10 million salary next season, but Baltimore owner Peter Angelos quashed the plan. The problem? The Orioles weren't willing to accept A.J. Burnett and Mike Lowell in a deal unless they could get Burnett signed long-term and dump Ponson at the same time. Soriano, making $7.5 million this year and looking at an arbitration-fed raise into the $11 million range this winter, would have played left for the Marlins. Under one version discussed, they would have put second baseman Luis Castillo and a couple of prospects into the deal and gone with prospective free agent Damion Easley as the starter at second for the final two months.
August 7, 200520 yr Soriano is a great hitter, but to be honest I would rather have Castillo at 2nd. There are two things that Castillo brings to the table that Soriano doesnt: Plate discipline (works the count every at-bat) and superb defense. I think people underestimate how important having good defense is... I am not sure if there are any stats out there, but I would venture to say that Castillo's strong defense probably gives us a few additional wins every year.
August 7, 200520 yr Castillo is better than Soriano and is the Marlins only complete player. As if that's not enough, he turned down a higher offer from the Mets to re-sign here.
August 7, 200520 yr Castillo is better than Soriano and is the Marlins only complete player. As if that's not enough, he turned down a higher offer from the Mets to re-sign here. 892265[/snapback] Exactly.
August 7, 200520 yr If we got Soriano in the OF, then that would be one thing....but gotta keep Luis. Let Castillo retire here.
August 7, 200520 yr Why are we even discussing A) something that didn't happen and B) is sole sourced with no backup and penned by Mike "I'll repeat any rumor I hear or solicit as long as doesn't make the Marlins organization look good" Berardino?
August 7, 200520 yr I wouldn't put much behind this rumor (just like the Beinfest called about Manny rumors, hell I called about Manny), however if it is true what the hell is the Front Office doing even hinting at Luiy being available?
August 7, 200520 yr If Soriano plays in CF long term for the Fish, then maybe consider a deal, though Soriano's power numbers suffer away from the bandbox that is The Ballpark at Arlington. There's no reason to get rid of Luis - he brings more to the table both offensively and defensively than Soriano, save for power hitting. He's gotta stay.
August 8, 200520 yr I remember getting yelled at by every homer on this board when I posted a Luis for Soriano deal in the rumors section, but I'm still amazed that you guys really think that Luis is 1000 times better than Soriano. Up until I found this site, I thought I was the BIGGEST marlins homer....unreal. At least that rumor has a bit more substance now....and everyone who said Beinfest would NEVER make such a deal might have to undertake some "inner" reflection. But to be honest, I'm actually glad I found a place where I can chat with any marlins fans - whether they're blinded by the teal or not. Anyway... Soriano is pretty amazing. Yes, Luis has him licked in defense, hitting for average, and IMO - Luis is one of the marlins' best clutch hitters....but Soriano has tons of power, actually steals more bases than Luis, and can hit for a decent average. He's really the FLIP side of Luis, because Luis doesn't produce any RBIs and really doesn't have any power. So, this debate really depends on what type of player you want. Don't misunderstand me. I LOVE Luis. But, Soriano is a hitting machine, and considering that we already have a true leadoff hitter in JP and our power numbers are quite pathetic - I'd rather have a big time bat in the middle of our lineup. However, when our two-headed monster of JP and Luis is working...it's pretty tough to beat, and at the moment...even though we're injury plagued...I can't complain with all the winning. At the trading deadline, however, I thought our team lacked a big bat. But, if you want a player that is currently ranked: 4th in the AL in HRs 5th in the AL in Runs scored 8th in the AL in Slugging 8th in the AL in RBIs 8th in the AL in SBs Soriano is your man.
August 8, 200520 yr The only thing Soriano has on Luiy is power which isn't that much once you consider Luiy's great ability to get on base, turn the double play, defend and steal bases when asked to.
August 8, 200520 yr The only thing Soriano has on Luiy is power which isn't that much once you consider Luiy's great ability to get on base, turn the double play, defend and steal bases when asked to. 893193[/snapback] This is the BEST example of an almost 100% true quote that still doesn't prove anyone's argument that Luis is better than Soriano...and don't get me wrong, I'm usually on your side for a lot of your arguments (for example, I think we both agree that Enc is not our favorite player...to say the least). Couldn't the same type of quote be used to describe the difference between Jeff Conine and Carlos Delgado? Conine usually hits for a good average, can drive in runs, is a clutch hitter, has better defensive range, usually makes the "key" digs when he needs to, probably has more speed than Delgado, is generally thought of as a good clubhouse guy, and even has a quite manageable contract. So basically, all Delgado has over Conine is greater power. But that statement doesn't accurately portray the situation, does it? I mean, c'mon...how many people would really argue that Conine is BETTER than Delgado? Delgado (just like Soriano) is one of the PREMIER power hitters at his position. His mere presence in the lineup alters the opposing team's defensive strategy, and takes pressure off the likes of Miggy, Lowell, etc. Soriano is the same type of player. He certainly has his faults. But to simply say Soriano only has more power than Luis doesn't truly describe the situation. Finding a good defensive second baseman who can steal a base, hit for a decent average, and even draw a walk when needed is not that difficult to find. On the other hand, Soriano is the only second baseman that I'm aware of that will hit 40 HRs this year. Once again, this is basically a debate about what type of player you want. IMO, not all statistical categories are created equally. Power is one that I usually give a bit more weight.
August 8, 200520 yr I am a defense oriented guy, so of course I'll take Luis...by far the best defensive 2B in the NL, if not all of MLB, over Soriano who is one of the worst at fielding the position in the bigs. I dont know why you would call Soriano a good defensive 2B.
August 8, 200520 yr No. Because Conine's advantages over Delgado are very small. His range around first base and baserunning ability is basically it. Delgado is an equal or better hitter in every way, hitting for average, homeruns and adjusting for the situation. While Luiy's advantages are huge. Second base I may be overrating as I played the position but IMO is the second most important defensive position on the field (SS being the other). They have to cover the two most active bases, plus cover their position and that of the often-lethargic firstbaseman and are counted on to control the running game as the shortstop is preoccupied each time a righthander steps to the plate. Defense at second base is huge, and Luiy is one the best and Soriano one of the worst. Think to when the Marlins in the month of May when Easley was filling in. Castillo is also much better at making contact, pitch recognition, situational hitting and baserunning (IMO). The guy can basically dial up an infield hit with a Baltimore Chop anytime he wants. It all adds up to overcome the .075-.100 defecit he faces in OPS. However I'd agree that pretty much it depends on the player you want, but as someone who thinks Luiy is our best leadoff batter anyway I'm not willing to give him up. Certainly not before Pierre proves that this first half was a fluke and he or his replacement is capable of getting on base at high rate for many seasons into the future. Looking around the league, I can think more teams that need Luiy than they need Soriano. But again, I view success in baseball as more getting on base often and increasing your scoring chances than hitting the ball hard and executing in the rare chances you create.
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