no basically they make claims that they already own all this land when some major landowners havent given them the time of day.

 

What are you talking about? The only time that happened was with the Red Berry mansion, and that only happened because HollyHills said they bought the land and the owner (who is good friends with the HollyHills owners) released a memo stating that he hadn't sold the land but that they were close. The next day HollyHills bought the land.

 

they make claims that are wholly untrue at worse and gross fabrications of the truth second.

 

Proof?

 

and regarding who you are....i can find out who you are, and if you are from somewhere i know.....

 

Really... yeah, this is Buddy from SR.

 

:thumbup

 

ya what a shocker its buddy holly. go tear down the tower of the americas. and then tell me how the hell they are going to be able to build a NASCAR track in the middle of the city and also how they will actually fund these stadiums. and by concrete I mean with full financning in place, with all land purchases and not just simply a pipe dream....when they actually get this wake me. until then this is just one of numerous proposals being sold to the great citizens of san antonio that have a lot of bark but little to no bite.

 

I'd be the first to welcome the Marlins in San Antonio but right now there is no way in hell its happening. I mean we wont even upgrade Wolff Stadium or I should say we wont even allow the owners of the Missions to upgrade the stadium. Granted this was under Eddie's stupid reign, but still.

 

Until I see a full proposal and not some pretty pictures, I'm skeptical at best. And like I said, that track isnt being built there. EVER. And I woudl argue that we dont exactly need another damn golf course in town.

This isn't good guys, we may afterall lose this team if this is for real, no way the city of Miami can beat a proposal like that.....EVER.

ya what a shocker its buddy holly. go tear down the tower of the americas.

 

2001 called....

 

and then tell me how the hell they are going to be able to build a NASCAR track in the middle of the city

 

With trucks and cranes and workers and cement and wood and grass.

 

and by concrete I mean with full financning in place, with all land purchases and not just simply a pipe dream....when they actually get this wake me.

 

The county already has the funding mechinism in place for a new stadium.

 

I'd be the first to welcome the Marlins in San Antonio but right now there is no way in hell its happening. I mean we wont even upgrade Wolff Stadium or I should say we wont even allow the owners of the Missions to upgrade the stadium. Granted this was under Eddie's stupid reign, but still.

 

The Missions? What do they have to do with this? Great example. I mean, we do jack squat with our ABA team (the Mustangs) I guess a pro basketball team in San Antonio would be a no go... oops.

 

And I woudl argue that we dont exactly need another damn golf course in town.

 

Well, this just proves it all. You know jack.

 

The golf course is already there. It's called Williow Springs, it's a public golf course.

 

Go can go look it up if you want, but why start now.

 

In the proposals Willow Springs would be built on and a new golf course would be built to the east of its current location.

ya i know nothing.

 

 

answer me this, this new golf course, will it be a public or a private type of course? and is the city simply going to 'give' this land to HollyHills just so these two can put more in their pocket? I havent read anything if this course is going to be public or private, if its going to be public, fine, if its going to be private add yet another hurdle you must overcome.

 

regarding the missions, i'm simply saying that the city has not even allowed the missions to do their own upgrades.

 

the funding may be semi in place, but its not all there for any stadium.

 

and you seem to forget that if they want to build a nascar track its going to have to get approved by the city.

 

there is no way in hell it will get approved within the city limits, the uproar would be so great that they would be forced to back out of that.

 

see pga village for what happens when you have the huge public uproar.

 

 

i only mention the tower because in all your genius you wanted to tear it down, i wanted to refurbish it, you are a damn idiot and you show this time and time again. BTW remind me what is happening with the Tower again?

 

 

Look until this entire project becomes more than just some drawings, its just another scheme by some hot shot group of people trying to take the city for what its worth.

 

There are many within this city that dont trust HollyHills at this point, and having those people on board would be kinda important.

 

Having said that, this city cannot afford to finance two stadiums in this day and age. Its going to be one or the other if anything, not both. Maybe in 10 years we can get another stadium, but right now its one or the other. If anyone within San Antonio truly thinks two state of the art stadiums can or would be funded then you are simply stupid.

 

 

Then again coming from you I wouldnt be shocked you believe it.

 

 

Now go take some more photos in traffic.

samson has made it clear that they prefer to stay here.

selig prefers that the marlins stay here too.

those 2 factors itself are the aces in the hole. the san antonio plan looks pretty.no question.

they like us have to prove funding for it. we have a gap that has to be filled and it can be.

this is all part of the leverage technique. :hat

If NASCAR is going to be racing there, the track will undoubtedly be owner by the France family through International Speedway Corp. I searched all over and found no hints whatsoever that they are thinking of building a track anywhere in Texas.

ya i know nothing.

 

I?m happy we can finally agree on something.

 

regarding the missions, i'm simply saying that the city has not even allowed the missions to do their own upgrades.

 

And that has to do with?

 

the funding may be semi in place, but its not all there for any stadium.

 

Yeah it is. The same funding mechanism that built the SBC? at&t Center.

 

there is no way in hell it will get approved within the city limits, the uproar would be so great that they would be forced to back out of that.

 

Didn't hear too much "uproar" when the city recently approved to bring back the annual Grand Prix race. And that thing is much closer to homes and would be much louder than a track stadium.

 

see pga village for what happens when you have the huge public uproar.

 

Wow... you compare the PGA Tour to a nascar track on the eastside.

 

The PGA Tour Resort is being built on top of the aquifer, that's why it was and still is such a hot topic of debate even though the resort is being built.

 

i only mention the tower because in all your genius you wanted to tear it down, i wanted to refurbish it, you are a damn idiot and you show this time and time again.

 

Yeah, I proposed knocking it down the for the sake of knocking it down... :banghead

 

No, I proposed building a new taller tower that incorporated the Riverwalk.

 

Razing the tower to expand Hemisfair Park, tunnel the downtown segment of 37 and turning the surface land into park land as well forming on big Downtown Park with the Riverwalk running through it.

 

 

BTW remind me what is happening with the Tower again?

 

Landry's is renovating it. I'm happy about that.

 

 

 

Look until this entire project becomes more than just some drawings, its just another scheme by some hot shot group of people trying to take the city for what its worth.

 

How are they taking the city for what its worth when they plan to use private investment to build 90% of the damn thing?

 

There are many within this city that dont trust HollyHills at this point, and having those people on board would be kinda important.

 

So they don't trust them... ok, well get over it.

 

 

Having said that, this city cannot afford to finance two stadiums in this day and age.

 

No one said they would be built at the same time.

 

 

Maybe in 10 years we can get another stadium, but right now its one or the other.

 

Cut that in half and I agree.

 

If anyone within San Antonio truly thinks two state of the art stadiums can or would be funded then you are simply stupid.

 

I love how this sentence started off generalizing and then ended with it being directed at me. :lol

 

 

Then again coming from you I wouldnt be shocked you believe it.

 

Yeah, must have a nice view from the throne you're sitting on, huh.

 

 

Now go take some more photos in traffic.

 

My photography is hobby, a real one at that. Trying to pass yourself off as some kind of cool badass on a internet message board isn't so much a hobby. Just a disillusioned attempt of getting back at all the bullies who harassed you through high school.

Is that you PhishPhan?

I believe it was pointed out that every man woman and child living in San Antonio's metropolitan area would need to go to one game each next season to equal the Marlins' gate number this past year.

 

 

 

First off, San Antonio's MSA population is nearly 2 million as of now.

 

2 million isn't a huge base to draw from as a MLB team, plus there's in state competition from 2 other established MLB teams, so massive out of market drawing is unlikely.

 

Kansas City: 1,992,836

Milwaukee: 1,709,926

Cincinnati: 2,100,501

Tampa: 2.587.967

 

 

All around or over the 2 million mark for population.

 

Yet... hmmm they all have MLB teams, right?

 

Out of the four teams you mentioned, none are winners, none boast of tremendous gate numbers despite 3/4 having nice stadiums, and the market is apathetic in general, and the only reason relocation hasn't been mentioned elsewhere is the rich history around the teams (DRays obviously excluded).

 

I repeat, your facts really aren't helping you out tremendously here.

Out of the four teams you mentioned, none are winners, none boast of tremendous gate numbers despite 3/4 having nice stadiums

 

Cincinnati, Cleveland, St. Louis, Denver who all you can put in the 2 million range of population in the 2 million have better attendance than Miami.

 

 

I repeat, your facts really aren't helping you out tremendously here.

 

Dude...

 

YOU:

 

2 million isn't a huge base to draw from as a MLB team

 

 

I gave you 4 cities with 2 million or less who have MLB teams and three of which have had them for a long time.

 

Your ignorance really isn't helping you out tremendously here.

Out of the four teams you mentioned, none are winners, none boast of tremendous gate numbers despite 3/4 having nice stadiums

 

Cincinnati, Cleveland, St. Louis, Denver who all you can put in the 2 million range of population in the 2 million have better attendance than Miami.

 

 

I repeat, your facts really aren't helping you out tremendously here.

 

Dude...

 

YOU:

 

2 million isn't a huge base to draw from as a MLB team

 

 

I gave you 4 cities with 2 million or less who have MLB teams and three of which have had them for a long time.

 

Your ignorance really isn't helping you out tremendously here.

 

Of the 4 you listed, K.C. and Tampa don't outdraw the Marlins, Milwaukee and Cincinatti are close to the Marlins' current situation due in large part to the new ballparks they have (and in the case of the Reds, a rich tradition for the franchise), and K.C., Milwaukee and Cincy all have great history with their teams. Look at Tampa, that's what an "expansion" franchise in a new area with a low population number does.

 

You can't compare established teams that have won World Championships in the city they currently play, with new ballparks to a relocating franchise.

 

The only comparison is Tampa, and that one clearly favors Miami.

Being able to maximize 2 million is comparable to being able to reach only a small amount of 5-6 million

beautiful!

the funding may be semi in place, but its not all there for any stadium.

 

Yeah it is. The same funding mechanism that built the SBC? at&t Center.

 

Didn't we vote on that? I dont recall there being a provision that it could be automatically extended on some whim to build whatever some private group wants to build. The mechanism may be in place, but there is no funding until the great citizens of San Antonio approve it.

 

 

there is no way in hell it will get approved within the city limits, the uproar would be so great that they would be forced to back out of that.

 

Didn't hear too much "uproar" when the city recently approved to bring back the annual Grand Prix race. And that thing is much closer to homes and would be much louder than a track stadium.

 

You are talking one race there with the Grand Prix, and its something that incorporates current streets, which while stupid only happens once a year. I'm sure they wont just build a NASCAR track just for one race a year. Pollution. Noise. Constant. Wont be approved. I'm willing to guarantee you that one.

 

see pga village for what happens when you have the huge public uproar.

 

Wow... you compare the PGA Tour to a nascar track on the eastside.

 

The PGA Tour Resort is being built on top of the aquifer, that's why it was and still is such a hot topic of debate even though the resort is being built.

 

Ya so instead of polluting the water we will be polluting the environment with noise. Good try kiddo. Its still not be approved, and I guaratnee you there will be a major uproar, especially when NASCAR isnt overly popular in San Antonio to start with.

 

i only mention the tower because in all your genius you wanted to tear it down, i wanted to refurbish it, you are a damn idiot and you show this time and time again.

 

Yeah, I proposed knocking it down the for the sake of knocking it down... :banghead

 

No, I proposed building a new taller tower that incorporated the Riverwalk.

 

Razing the tower to expand Hemisfair Park, tunnel the downtown segment of 37 and turning the surface land into park land as well forming on big Downtown Park with the Riverwalk running through it.

 

Stupid, unrealistic, unpractical idea then and seems like some of those that actually have power and money agreed.

 

 

Look until this entire project becomes more than just some drawings, its just another scheme by some hot shot group of people trying to take the city for what its worth.

 

How are they taking the city for what its worth when they plan to use private investment to build 90% of the damn thing?

 

Ya and the part that involves the stadiums has zero real funding now. Nice. Still a bunch of drawings right now.

 

 

There are many within this city that dont trust HollyHills at this point, and having those people on board would be kinda important.

 

So they don't trust them... ok, well get over it.

 

Obviously you have zero understanding of politics. You cant just throw this together without getting approvals you know.

 

 

Maybe in 10 years we can get another stadium, but right now its one or the other.

 

Cut that in half and I agree.

 

Based upon what? Your own brilliance?

 

Now go take some more photos in traffic.

 

My photography is hobby, a real one at that. Trying to pass yourself off as some kind of cool badass on a internet message board isn't so much a hobby. Just a disillusioned attempt of getting back at all the bullies who harassed you through high school.

 

 

 

Ya thats what I'm doing. I'm trying to be a cool badass, when I'm trying to pick apart your arguement. I mean we all need hobbies, much like your hardon you constantly have for every positive article that comes out regarding San Antonio, no matter how far fetched it is.

Didn't we vote on that? I dont recall there being a provision that it could be automatically extended on some whim to build whatever some private group wants to build.

 

Well, you can. If you actually looked things up you'd know.

 

Maybe watch the news, like today, where Wolff said extending the current tax that pays for the AT&T Cnter is the first choice if the Marlins choice San Antonio.

 

The mechanism may be in place, but there is no funding until the great citizens of San Antonio approve it.

 

No, no, and no. It can and will be extended.

 

 

You are talking one race there with the Grand Prix, and its something that incorporates current streets, which while stupid only happens once a year.

 

How many "real" races take place at other track stadiums? 5 maybe 7 a year.

 

I'm sure they wont just build a NASCAR track just for one race a year. Pollution. Noise. Constant. Wont be approved. I'm willing to guarantee you that one.

 

Good to know you hold all the power. I'll tell my friends.

 

 

Ya so instead of polluting the water we will be polluting the environment with noise.

 

Yeah, there's no such thing as noise barriers.

 

 

Good try kiddo. Its still not be approved, and I guaratnee you there will be a major uproar, especially when NASCAR isnt overly popular in San Antonio to start with.

 

It doesn't have to be overly popular in San Antonio, Nascar fans came from hundred and thousand of miles away to attend races.

 

I wouldn't take Miami as big redneck country, yet they have a track, they have the races.

 

You could put as track in the middle of Idaho and it would sell out for every Nascar event.

 

 

Stupid, unrealistic, unpractical idea then and seems like some of those that actually have power and money agreed.

 

My ideas, my vision, my imagination. You seem to think I was actually about to go do these things.

 

I also proposed a third loop that would connect all the surrending suburbs.... and guess what, that's also been proposed by third parties.

 

I proposed we tunnel the downtown segment of 37. Guess what, a third party also proposed the same thing.

 

 

Ya and the part that involves the stadiums has zero real funding now. Nice. Still a bunch of drawings right now.

 

Funding for stadiums can and would be worked out if teams committed to San Antonio. Funding for one stadium is in place with the extention of the current tax that built the at&t center. Watch WOAI at 6, threy might repeat Judge Wolff's interview.

 

 

Based upon what? Your own brilliance?

 

Population growth, economic growth, facts, figures, etc.

 

If you knew half the things I know, you'd understand.

 

 

 

 

Of the 4 you listed, K.C. and Tampa don't outdraw the Marlins, Milwaukee and Cincinatti are close to the Marlins' current situation due in large part to the new ballparks they have (and in the case of the Reds, a rich tradition for the franchise), and K.C., Milwaukee and Cincy all have great history with their teams. Look at Tampa, that's what an "expansion" franchise in a new area with a low population number does.

 

Portland has a "rich" history with their NBA team. Where do they rank in attendance? DEAD LAST in NBA attendance at 14,428 a game.

 

What about Boston? Propbably the RICHEST and most STORIED team in terms of their city... where does Boston rank in NBA attendance? 25th at 15,707 per game.

 

Oklahoma City with a MSA population of 1.2 million, which just had the Hornets thrown in their laps this past season... guess where they rank. 10th with 18,096.

 

 

You can't compare established teams that have won World Championships in the city they currently play, with new ballparks to a relocating franchise.

 

Yeah you can. There's no difference except the history and that means jack when it comes to the bottomline, which is money.

Of the 4 you listed, K.C. and Tampa don't outdraw the Marlins, Milwaukee and Cincinatti are close to the Marlins' current situation due in large part to the new ballparks they have (and in the case of the Reds, a rich tradition for the franchise), and K.C., Milwaukee and Cincy all have great history with their teams. Look at Tampa, that's what an "expansion" franchise in a new area with a low population number does.

 

Portland has a "rich" history with their NBA team. Where do they rank in attendance? DEAD LAST in NBA attendance at 14,428 a game.

 

What about Boston? Propbably the RICHEST and most STORIED team in terms of their city... where does Boston rank in NBA attendance? 25th at 15,707 per game.

 

Oklahoma City with a MSA population of 1.2 million, which just had the Hornets thrown in their laps this past season... guess where they rank. 10th with 18,096.

 

 

Portland and Boston are NBA teams not winning. Those arenas are filled when they're winning, and you can't compare an NBA team with 41 air conditioned home-dates to an MLB team that plays outisde in the heat, rain and sun.

 

Not to mention, Oklahoma city just got the Hornets for a limited amount of dates...obviously you've never heard about the "honeymoon period."

 

Talk about grasping at straws...

Texan has it right on one thing, the tax extension would need to voted on by the city residents in order to become effective.

 

Portland and Boston are NBA teams not winning. Those arenas are filled when they're winning,

 

Exactly... which makes your "history" versus "new" argument moronic and flawed.

 

and you can't compare an NBA team with 41 air conditioned home-dates to an MLB team that plays outisde in the heat, rain and sun.

 

Yeah you can because its still pro sports, not to mention MLB tickets are much cheaper than NBA tickets.

 

Not to mention, Oklahoma city just got the Hornets for a limited amount of dates...obviously you've never heard about the "honeymoon period."

 

Sure, if a market can't handle a team in the short run, it can't handle it in the long run, the same is true the otherway.

 

You're trying to dismiss them for doing what any other city would try to do when they're trying to prove they're a viable market for a pro sports team.

 

That "honeymoon" period didn't exsist for the Hornets in when re-entered the New Orleans market. Nor did this "honeymoon" period happen when Memphis won a team via relocation.

 

Talk about grasping at straws...

 

Which is what you've been doing all along. But it?s hard for some people to see their own idiocy.

Texan has it right on one thing, the tax extension would need to voted on by the city residents in order to become effective.

 

 

 

 

So therefore all I said about the funding not exactly existing right now is correct.

 

 

Nice to see you admit that.

 

 

Be sure to find some mythical, not entirely complete info though to back up all your claims regarding the short term growth of San Antonio being ready for not only 1 but 2 more top level professional franchises within 5 years. I've seen some of the data you have provided before, its full of important holes.

 

Like I said, I'd love the Marlins in San Antoino, but right now, its just talk, until this actually goes to vote I wont get THAT excited.

Be sure to find some mythical, not entirely complete info though to back up all your claims regarding the short term growth of San Antonio being ready for not only 1 but 2 more top level professional franchises within 5 years. I've seen some of the data you have provided before, its full of important holes.

 

 

 

What growth are you speaking of? And what have I provided that is full of important holes. Atleast fill me in on that instea dof being vauge.

 

In terms of population, San Antonio is the third fasting growing in the country behind only LA and Phoenix.

 

In terms of metro (MSA) population, San Antonio is growing at an annual rate of 45,000 - 50,000 a year.

 

Just ask me for whatever info you need, and I'd be more than happy to give them to you.