They are not South Florida's team to be d*ck*d around with and disrespected by all (yes, I'm including fans who demand top-flight service at cheap prices here).

Speaking for myself, I am not paying cheap prices and as for "top-flight service"...I'd settle for normal.

Marlins tickets aren't cheap anymore.

Never been to the northeast, have you?

 

Looks like you haven't been to Pro Player lately, Ferry.

 

Any of the decent seats are on par with any counterparts in the North East.

 

Heck, Founder's Field and Batter's box seats are more expensive than the equivalent seats for the Yankees or Mets, and Batter's Box is roughly equal to those in Fenway.

 

The "average" ticket price for the Marlins is among the lowest because of the ridiculously low $4 fish tank seats (or whatever they are now), but $85 for founder's club seats behind the plate and $175 for batter's box is not cheap by any baseball standard.

I mean, mortgage. You renegotiate a lease. You explore other properties, other homes, other towns to send a sign to your landlord and prospective landlords that they don't have the leverage they use to screw you over.

 

May I ask why you're so against ownership? Why are you so uncaring about their stake in the franchise? Why are you so unconcerned by their role in the franchise? Why do you feel that the team belongs to you? Why do you feel that they must change for you? They aren't Burger King in a world full of hamburger joints, you know. You need them every much as they need you. And under the current lease terms, heck, it doesn't even matter if you show up. I've got a mind blowing concept for you: ownership does not simply pay the bills. They set the tone for the company. They make important business decisions that change the prospects of the company. They aren't a signature on a blank check. They don't live and die to go over budget to bring in that July trade pickup.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are not South Florida's team to be d*ck*d around with and disrespected by all (yes, I'm including fans who demand top-flight service at cheap prices here).

Speaking for myself, I am not paying cheap prices and as for "top-flight service"...I'd settle for normal.

Marlins tickets aren't cheap anymore.

Never been to the northeast, have you?

 

Looks like you haven't been to Pro Player lately, Ferry.

 

Any of the decent seats are on par with any counterparts in the North East.

 

Heck, Founder's Field and Batter's box seats are more expensive than the equivalent seats for the Yankees or Mets, and Batter's Box is roughly equal to those in Fenway.

 

The "average" ticket price for the Marlins is among the lowest because of the ridiculously low $4 fish tank seats (or whatever they are now), but $85 for founder's club seats behind the plate and $175 for batter's box is not cheap by any baseball standard.

I respect the commitment those made to the Marlins through an excessive purchase, which jumped a huge amount this offseason. However, please don't pretend that the average fan sits in those seats, felt the same sticker shock or pay the price they do. For the most part, Joe Average can see a game for cheaper than anywhere else on the East Coast and many of the other entertainment options in South Florida.

I never said that Loria owed me anything. I know he owns the team and he can do whatever he wants. But leases can't be renegotiated unless the landlord wants to.......and why should Wayne H. even consider it?

 

The teams on the East Coast also spend alot of their payrolls too. Even losers like the Orioles.

They are not South Florida's team to be d*ck*d around with and disrespected by all (yes, I'm including fans who demand top-flight service at cheap prices here).

Speaking for myself, I am not paying cheap prices and as for "top-flight service"...I'd settle for normal.

Marlins tickets aren't cheap anymore.

Never been to the northeast, have you?

 

Looks like you haven't been to Pro Player lately, Ferry.

 

Any of the decent seats are on par with any counterparts in the North East.

 

Heck, Founder's Field and Batter's box seats are more expensive than the equivalent seats for the Yankees or Mets, and Batter's Box is roughly equal to those in Fenway.

 

The "average" ticket price for the Marlins is among the lowest because of the ridiculously low $4 fish tank seats (or whatever they are now), but $85 for founder's club seats behind the plate and $175 for batter's box is not cheap by any baseball standard.

I respect the commitment those made to the Marlins through an excessive purchase, which jumped a huge amount this offseason. However, please don't pretend that the average fan sits in those seats, felt the same sticker shock or pay the price they do. For the most part, Joe Average can see a game for cheaper than anywhere else on the East Coast and many of the other entertainment options in South Florida.

 

I sit in those seats, a lot of people here do. Am I not the average fan?

 

It's not as if every single Marlins fan just goes out to the tank seats.

 

If the seats were all corporate owned and indifferent to price hikes, there'd be no need to be griping about season ticket sales.

 

"Joe Average" is tired of getting abused by this ownership group who doesn't know the first thing about customer support or ethical business activities.

i hate midgets

i hate midgets

 

:lol :lol :lol

 

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

i hate midgets

 

 

I believe the correct term is "little people"

Rferry, the bet they made was fine if, when push comes to shove, they have the financing in place to do it on their own. It is bad business to rely so much on generosity. It is not guaranteed. Other teams have made a similar bet, but at least most of those owners had decent leases and could at least survive without a new stadium. This ownership group has relied far too much on getting government funding for the stadium. Their bet essentially is: If we get a publicy funded stadium, we make tons of money, and if we don't, we lose so much money we have to sell the team. That's not a very wise bet.

 

They had a gap of $30 million and they are willing to relocate because they don't want to fill that gap with their own money. How pathetic is that? They're willing to move an entire franchise from potentially one of the best baseball markets in the planet over $30 million dollars. Think about how much money they could make off that increased $30 million contribution if they stayed in So. Florida. It will more than pay for itself over the long run. Even if they get their stadium here in So. Florida, think about how much their latest tactics have cost them in good will with the fans. They're just not good businessmen.

 

That was a pretty solid bet when you have the controlling power of your industry on your side, and the competition between potential owners and host cities increasing their offers daily.

 

 

 

So tell me more about host cities increasing their offers daily? Are you referring to the stadium in DC? lol Right. And So. Florida had been increasing its offers daily? LOL

Loria got this team for pennies on a dollar......so I don't want to hear him crying. If he wants to slash payroll fine......but he should look in the mirror, because that's where the blame ultimately lies for being a bad business man.

 

He ruined the Expos and now it's our turn. :banghead

Ticket prices won't go down just because the Marlins are fielding the worst team in the majors either.

 

You might not like it, but ticket prices will continue to increase. Until they meet the MLB average, which itself is increasing (at no loss of purchasers either might I add!). It's time for fans to realize a Marlins ticket is a valuable item. Something that simply can't be acquired the day of, and only if it doesn't rain. For the team, it's better every little bit now than a whole lot later when they'll shrink stadium capacity to create demand and raise prices for the new park.

It's valuable if the Marlins field a major-league team instead of a AA team.

I never said that Loria owed me anything. I know he owns the team and he can do whatever he wants. But leases can't be renegotiated unless the landlord wants to.......and why should Wayne H. even consider it?

 

The teams on the East Coast also spend alot of their payrolls too. Even losers like the Orioles.

 

You are so dense. Renegotiating the lease is a dead issue. It's never going to happen. Huizenga won't renogiate unless there's competition from another landlord, and even then any possible resolution with Huizenga will likely not be a better deal to the Marlins.

What is not a dead issue and what we are currently dealing with is exploring new towns and landlords for better leases, and not renewing the lease with Huizenga when we have a commitment from another landlord. That effort will be to the benefit to the Marlins. That strive for improvement is something to admire. It seems you disagree.

I think you're the one that's dense here. The only thing the Marlins need really is a more appealing lease. The stadium itself is a much better place to watch a game than Yankee Stadium......that place is a dump. But it's a moot point because they will never get a new lease. I hate Wayne H. but he's certainly not a dumb man....that is for sure.

 

So what happens when the lease runs out, Florida doesn't build them a stadium and they don't get a good offer from another city? Then what?

 

They can't get out of their lease because of another landlord......by law they are stuck here until the lease is over.

 

 

I never said that Loria owed me anything. I know he owns the team and he can do whatever he wants. But leases can't be renegotiated unless the landlord wants to.......and why should Wayne H. even consider it?

 

The teams on the East Coast also spend alot of their payrolls too. Even losers like the Orioles.

 

You are so dense. Renegotiating the lease is a dead issue. It's never going to happen. Huizenga won't renogiate unless there's competition from another landlord, and even then any possible resolution with Huizenga will likely not be a better deal to the Marlins.

What is not a dead issue and what we are currently dealing with is exploring new towns and landlords for better leases, and not renewing the lease with Huizenga when we have a commitment from another landlord. That effort will be to the benefit to the Marlins. That strive for improvement is something to admire. It seems you disagree.

 

 

So you admire Samson and Loria.......that's all I needed to know. So when they leave town......you'll still be a fan of theirs......wow.....and you call me dense?

They are not South Florida's team to be d*ck*d around with and disrespected by all (yes, I'm including fans who demand top-flight service at cheap prices here).

Speaking for myself, I am not paying cheap prices and as for "top-flight service"...I'd settle for normal.

Marlins tickets aren't cheap anymore.

Never been to the northeast, have you?

 

Looks like you haven't been to Pro Player lately, Ferry.

 

Any of the decent seats are on par with any counterparts in the North East.

 

Heck, Founder's Field and Batter's box seats are more expensive than the equivalent seats for the Yankees or Mets, and Batter's Box is roughly equal to those in Fenway.

 

The "average" ticket price for the Marlins is among the lowest because of the ridiculously low $4 fish tank seats (or whatever they are now), but $85 for founder's club seats behind the plate and $175 for batter's box is not cheap by any baseball standard.

I respect the commitment those made to the Marlins through an excessive purchase, which jumped a huge amount this offseason. However, please don't pretend that the average fan sits in those seats, felt the same sticker shock or pay the price they do. For the most part, Joe Average can see a game for cheaper than anywhere else on the East Coast and many of the other entertainment options in South Florida.

 

I sit in those seats, a lot of people here do. Am I not the average fan?

 

It's not as if every single Marlins fan just goes out to the tank seats.

 

If the seats were all corporate owned and indifferent to price hikes, there'd be no need to be griping about season ticket sales.

 

"Joe Average" is tired of getting abused by this ownership group who doesn't know the first thing about customer support or ethical business activities.

Joe Average doesn't sit in the Founder's Club seats. Founder's Clubs seats are marketed for their exclusivity. Joe Average typically sits elsewhere. For example, Infield Box or Terrace baseline seats which would cost him 33% and 25% more in Baltimore and even more elsewhere.

They are not South Florida's team to be d*ck*d around with and disrespected by all (yes, I'm including fans who demand top-flight service at cheap prices here).

Speaking for myself, I am not paying cheap prices and as for "top-flight service"...I'd settle for normal.

Marlins tickets aren't cheap anymore.

Never been to the northeast, have you?

 

Looks like you haven't been to Pro Player lately, Ferry.

 

Any of the decent seats are on par with any counterparts in the North East.

 

Heck, Founder's Field and Batter's box seats are more expensive than the equivalent seats for the Yankees or Mets, and Batter's Box is roughly equal to those in Fenway.

 

The "average" ticket price for the Marlins is among the lowest because of the ridiculously low $4 fish tank seats (or whatever they are now), but $85 for founder's club seats behind the plate and $175 for batter's box is not cheap by any baseball standard.

I respect the commitment those made to the Marlins through an excessive purchase, which jumped a huge amount this offseason. However, please don't pretend that the average fan sits in those seats, felt the same sticker shock or pay the price they do. For the most part, Joe Average can see a game for cheaper than anywhere else on the East Coast and many of the other entertainment options in South Florida.

 

I sit in those seats, a lot of people here do. Am I not the average fan?

 

It's not as if every single Marlins fan just goes out to the tank seats.

 

If the seats were all corporate owned and indifferent to price hikes, there'd be no need to be griping about season ticket sales.

 

"Joe Average" is tired of getting abused by this ownership group who doesn't know the first thing about customer support or ethical business activities.

Joe Average doesn't sit in the Founder's Club seats. Founder's Clubs seats are marketed for their exclusivity. Joe Average typically sits elsewhere. For example, Infield Box or Terrace baseline seats which would cost him 33% and 25% more in Baltimore and even more elsewhere.

 

So you're comparing prices to a team that spends more on payroll than the Marlins and have a beautiful baseball only stadium?

 

The left side of the Orioles infield makes more money than the entire 25 man roster of the Marlins.

Rferry, the bet they made was fine if, when push comes to shove, they have the financing in place to do it on their own. It is bad business to rely so much on generosity. It is not guaranteed. Other teams have made a similar bet, but at least most of those owners had decent leases and could at least survive without a new stadium. This ownership group has relied far too much on getting government funding for the stadium. Their bet essentially is: If we get a publicy funded stadium, we make tons of money, and if we don't, we lose so much money we have to sell the team. That's not a very wise bet.

You have to adjust for the industry. Since the 50s, cities have been throwing money at MLB teams. They're doing even more now, or atleast the time of the sale.

And isn't that what he's doing? Reducing his expenses to ride it out until a solution can be agreed upon? I assure he didn't get rid of your favorite players just to spite you.

 

 

That was a pretty solid bet when you have the controlling power of your industry on your side, and the competition between potential owners and host cities increasing their offers daily.

 

So tell me more about host cities increasing their offers daily? Are you referring to the stadium in DC? lol Right. And So. Florida had been increasing its offers daily? LOL

I said potential host cities. Many in DC have come to the opinion (and for good reason, namely the profits MLB made in 2005) that MLB will keep a team in DC. It is those who think this that are now in power to yay or nay the Mayor's negotiated lease with MLB in which he promised them everything and asked for nothing in the attempt to beat out No. VA, Norfolk and Portland. Thanks for proving my point! MLB won't be as so stupid to move a team until they have a deal in hand, but that won't happen anytime soon. All prospective hosts do not have a major league ready park.

 

So what happens when the lease runs out, Florida doesn't build them a stadium and they don't get a good offer from another city? Then what?

 

They can't get out of their lease because of another landlord......by law they are stuck here until the lease is over.

For the upteenth time, the Marlins' lease runs from one season to the next. They aren't stuck here, because of the terms of the lease. They are stuck here, because the results of the lease. Perhaps you're thinking of the Devil Rays who have an iron-bound 30-year lease with the city at the T-Dome.

 

So you admire Samson and Loria.......that's all I needed to know. So when they leave town......you'll still be a fan of theirs......wow.....and you call me dense?

 

Wrong assumption.

 

So you're comparing prices to a team that spends more on payroll than the Marlins and have a beautiful baseball only stadium?

 

The left side of the Orioles infield makes more money than the entire 25 man roster of the Marlins.

 

Would you rather me compare them to the Mets, who play in a terrible stadium and have finished below the Marlins three years running? Or the 2005 Nats?

You're thinking about it from just one perspective: as a purchaser of a said product. Try thinking about from the Marlins side. Or from one that wishes to improve fan loyalty. Or the 28 other owners who rely and lean on Loria.

Getting rid of every single player on the team is no way to build fan loyalty.

Getting rid of every single player on the team is no way to build fan loyalty.

 

I agree, but you must agree by keeping prices so low that you risk having the consumer overlook the expense and what comes with it. For example, Independence Air can have the best pilots and service attendants in the world, but if they are viewed as mainly an inexpensive way to travel, they will never establish themselves as a brand consumers will latch on to. They'll jump from one discount fare to the next, not even paying one bit of attention at who the providor is or any other services they may provide.

 

Some might argue that without a huge overhaul of a team that had not realized its talent and was running out of time to, we might have faced grave issues in forthcoming seasons as our minor league system, stripped at the expense. That without a huge reduction in salary that Loria would not be able to continue as Marlins owner (it's irrevalent if you wish he'd give up control) and/or that he would be unable to contribute to any new stadium - which is what will allow the Marlins to retain its players and invest in new better ones and in the community. And that instead of shooting for 3rd place now and 2nd place in the future, that we should be focused on developing a championship calibar team down the line. Thus, it is best to trade away valuable assets such as a Luis Castillo or Josh Beckett, and replace them with modest free agents to maintain some amount of respectability and take some pressure off the members of your future championship core.

 

Of course, to see that you must have some foresight and a somewhat open mind that's not clouded with hatred for the present situation.

I won't shed a tear for either Samson or Loria. It's already been made public that at least one person has attempted to buy this team, but was rejected. If they don't want to lose money, sell the team to someone else, for the good of the franchise.

"Modest Free Agents" come on now. They have not signed any "modest" free agents......just dirt cheap ones......big difference.

 

Reese, Amezaga, Cepicky, Olivo, Helms, Borowski, Ligtenberg, Herges.......wow.

Again, which would you rather have:

2nd/3rd now and 4th/5th and possibly bankrupt later,

3rd/4th now and 2nd later,

or 4th/5th now and 1st and possibly a new stadium later?

 

 

 

I won't shed a tear for either Samson or Loria. It's already been made public that at least one person has attempted to buy this team, but was rejected. If they don't want to lose money, sell the team to someone else, for the good of the franchise.

 

It's not our choice. Nor is it the Mayor of Miami's. Even if it was, our choice wouldn't survive a vote among MLB owners. It's a pointless issue to contest.

4th or 5th? The Marlins will have the first pick in the draft next year because the only thing that separates this team from the 2003 Tigers is Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis. This will be a horrible team.

 

Even the year the Marlins won the World Series no one even went to the games until mid-September.

 

I think they should have signed more players to minor league contracts that actually have major league talent......but they didn't.

 

R Ferry......you are naive to think the Marlins are gonna be a champ in a couple of years.

Sounds like you'd rather have the Marlins follow the third path. To avoid spending beyond their [financial and prospective talent] resources, while striving for a World Series and maintaining some amount of decency until then.

 

It sounds like you may or may not have a hard time coming to terms with the new reality of a stripped down Marlins team, but what you find really objectable has been their ability to realize those goals in the short term (recognizing cheap players with talent and signing them).

Many people confuse these two. They expect something just short of perfection. They are amateur GMs or experienced roto players who can't accept that the transactions they work out in their mind are far more complex when it involves real players and real players in real time.

 

R Ferry......you are naive to think the Marlins are gonna be a champ in a couple of years.

 

With our Cabrera, Hermida, Hanley, Willingham, Jacobs, Willis and our pitching staff? Don't be such a pessimist. That's a whole lot of talent that are bound to the team for atleast three more seasons.

I have no sympathy for Loria and Samson.

 

I'm tired of this BS already. Materials costs are rising by the minute, and I doubt Loria has the funds to get this done here, or on another city. Now the gap is bigger and will only get bigger.

 

If they feel they can get a better deal elsewhere, then move the team asap.

Would you rather me compare them to the Mets, who play in a terrible stadium and have finished below the Marlins three years running?

Comparing ticket prices to NY is completely invalid. Everything is higher in NY, including salaries! Should we also be paying NY prices for housing and everything else? The markets are not comparable.