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HOUSTON ? If San Antonio fails to land the Florida Marlins, the blame will land squarely on the city's ranking as the nation's No. 37 media market, county and city officials said Monday after their first meeting with Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria.

 

"The meeting went great and their interest in San Antonio is sincere," Mayor Phil Hardberger said. "But our small media market is a significant obstacle. It's there and you can't sell yourself around it."

 

Loria, who entertained a San Antonio contingent that also included Bexar County Judge Nelson Wolff and District Attorney Susan Reed at the Marlins season opener against the Houston Astros, declined to comment.

 

The Marlins, who enjoy what team President David Samson calls "very impressive" television ratings in South Florida, recently received a lucrative television contract from Fox Sports Network Florida.

 

Team officials say they aren't sure what kind of a deal they would get in San Antonio because FSN Southwest already must broadcast Astros and Texas Rangers games in South Texas.

 

But industry experts and sources with knowledge of the relocation talks between city and county officials and the Marlins, say the Marlins won't get a better television deal in San Antonio. Miami/Fort Lauderdale is the nation's No. 17 media market.

 

Samson told the San Antonio Express-News on Sunday that a rich local television contract tops the list of conditions that would convince the Marlins to seek permission from Major League Baseball to move to San Antonio.

 

"(Stadium) naming rights, suite deals, season-ticket ticket sales, corporate support ? without all of that there is no franchise," Samson said. "But TV revenue is the engine that keeps the train rolling."

 

But Samson also said it has been difficult to determine how much television revenue is available in San Antonio because it doesn't know what kind of territory MLB would carve out for the team. Wolff said the Marlins are considering asking MLB to include northern Mexico in the equation.

 

"The stadium deal we've offered will work fine and the economic forecast for San Antonio is favorable," Wolff said. "The two big unknowns are the media piece and what kind of territory MLB would give."

 

Said Fox Sports senior vice president for communications Lou D'Ermilio:

 

"The Marlins and FSN signed a new long-term TV agreement last year that makes FSN Florida the local television home of the Marlins well into this century," D'Ermilio said. "At the time the deal was consummated, both parties knew relocation was a possibility and took that into consideration. While the Marlins and FSN have had preliminary conversations about potential relocation markets, specific conversations can't take place until the Marlins and the team determine what the process and timetable can be."

 

Hardberger said the Marlins like the growth potential for San Antonio, which has a booming corporate base and is expected to grow in population in the next five years.

 

But the television problem could be insurmountable, Hardberger said.

 

"We are growing tremendously and our media market will grow and time is on our side, but right now it's small compared to (the Marlins) standards," Hardberger said.

 

Minutes before sitting down with the San Antonio contingent in a box behind the Marlins' dugout at Minute Maid Park, Samson insisted the team isn't using the Alamo City as leverage to squeeze a better stadium deal from Miami-Dade County or other municipalities in South Florida.

 

"If that was what we were trying to do, we have miserably failed," said Samson, referring to the team's inability to strike a deal for a baseball-specific stadium in the Sunshine State.

 

Wolff and Hardberger flanked Loria for much of the game. They also took turns chatting with Samson, Loria's stepson, who also spent an inning or two talking to Reed.

 

Other San Antonians seated in the box included Wolff's wife, Tracy; Hardberger's wife, Linda; Lyle Larson, County Commissioner Precinct 3; Seth Mitchell, Wolff's chief of staff; and Ed Schweninger, chief of Bexar County's civil section.

 

Joel A. Mael, Marlins vice chairman, and P.J. Loyello, Marlins senior vice president for communications and broadcasting, also were present.

 

The Marlins say they want to remain in South Florida. But stadium talks there have slowed, mainly because the team insists it needs $100 million and free land to complete a deal for a $400 million stadium in Miami-Dade County. The Marlins have offered to pay as much as $212 million to fund the project, mainly through rent payments.

 

The Marlins' lease at Dolphins Stadium expires after the 2007 season, but a series of one-year options would allow the team to continue to play there through the 2010 season.

 

Bexar County has offered $200 million to build a $310 million stadium should voters extend the hotel and rental-car taxes that are paying for the AT&T Center.

Finally, some good off the field news.

17 media market I find that hard to believe we got to be better than that.. i don't see no CSI San Antonio anywhere wait tell Tim Duncan slows a bit that team will be in the cellar as will the Marlins if they move out there MLB owners would have to be Fools to apprrove that move.

17 media market I find that hard to believe we got to be better than that.. i don't see no CSI San Antonio anywhere wait tell Tim Duncan slows a bit that team will be in the cellar as will the Marlins if they move out there MLB owners would have to be Fools to apprrove that move.

 

 

if you include west palm beach we're the 6th or 7th largest media market.

hell, the palm beach media market (#38 on the list) on its own is the same size as the san antonio media market.

ya noticed they didn't add Palm Beach maybe they SA is trying to add EL Salvador Honduras Nicaragua and Mexico to there numbers you can watch a game and run back to the Border before midnight right in time before Border Patrol or the Minute men getcha

ya noticed they didn't add Palm Beach maybe they SA is trying to add EL Salvador Honduras Nicaragua and Mexico to there numbers you can watch a game and run back to the Border before midnight right in time before Border Patrol or the Minute men getcha

 

\ :lol :lol :notworthy :notworthy

Finally, some good off the field news.

Lets just hope we get stuff straightened out in south florida, so we dont have to worry for SA to fall apart.

we got to get our act together but lets be honest there is NO way MLB is going to lose South Florida Market and I am not going to become a Devil Rays fan go figure they they got a Staduim heck Tampa's got Football Baseball Hockey It would be Sad to be to be a 3 tier team instead of 4..

HOUSTON ? If San Antonio fails to land the Florida Marlins, the blame will land squarely on the city's ranking as the nation's No. 37 media market, county and city officials said Monday after their first meeting with Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria.

 

 

Considering this is exactly what I've been saying as to why it won't be the marlins coming to SA. I've already pointed out that according to Neilsen DMA's (which is what lists SA at 37, Miami-FtL at 17), if you add together the DMA's for SA, Austin, and Corpus (the 3 major DMA's likely to be declared rights areas for a team in SA), you STILL only get 20k more TV homes than Miami-Ftl alone.

 

If a team moves to SA it'll be from an area where the drop in TV won't be that bad (aka one of the "small market teams") or one where losing the team won't necessarly lose the TV viewers (an area with 2 or more close together teams).

just read the Herald here at brickell Motor while my denali is getting a oil change " Mexican make 2 dollars a Day" by average guess SA marlins tickets would be a quater free tacos and park your horse in the rear and for out of towner Border Patrol will be provide service to the BOrder for free on Fridays

we got to get our act together but lets be honest there is NO way MLB is going to lose South Florida Market and I am not going to become a Devil Rays fan go figure they they got a Staduim heck Tampa's got Football Baseball Hockey It would be Sad to be to be a 3 tier team instead of 4..

 

But don't you kind of feel this is a Charlotte Hornets situation, where the population and intangibles are there to support the team, but the fans are totally disenfranchised with the orgazniation and they do not trust the Loria/Samson braintrust.

 

I think it's silly for MLB to ignore this market because of (1) population density and general wealth of the tri-county area and (2) the rapidly rising hispanic population. As we saw in the WBC, that population sect has the potential to be a rabid support base and it would be silly for MLB to ignore the one place in the country where they could maybe create a bridge to latin american fans.

 

I think the real issue is, I don't know if the Marlins are the right franchise because of the ownership and the "Charlotte Hornets" syndrome. I think they are gone. San Antonio might have TV, and other, issues, but if they get a free stadium they could easily survive as a Pitt/Cincy/Clev type revenue/attendance/payroll franchise. That area might not have the overall growth potential as South Florida, but it wouldn't be a disaster. I think MLB will find an owner that wants to relocate down the road, or future expansion, and South Florida will be the top candidate because unlike Northern Virginia, or Portland, or Las Vegas, or wherever, this is a goldmine if it is done right. Some smart businessman, like a Mark Cuban, will realize that at some point, generate interest, and exploit the area. Until then, I think it's going to be "Go Rays" in a few years.

If loria would accept a prtner or sell the team as has been noted we would be in this staduim sitituation the short 30 mil has now become 100

I've said it before, there's no market bigger than Miami-Ft. Lauderdale that doesn't already have an MLB team. And while stadium revenue is nice you can't rob peter to pay paul. Broadcasting revenues are a big part of the equation and regardless of San Antonio's growth, south florida is growing too. Even if the Marlins leave, baseball will come to South Florida because our market is too big not to have it. Obviosly my preference would be to save the Marlins than to start again with some expansion team or some AL team like the Devil Rays or A's.

 

 

 

Market, Rank, Households (% of US HH)

 

New York 1 7,376 (6.8%)

Los Angeles 2 5,402 (4.9%)

Chicago 3 3,399 (3.1%)

Philadelphia 4 2,874 (2.6%)

Boston (Manchester) 5 2,392 (2.2%)

San Francisco-Oak-San Jose 6 2,441 (2.2%)

Dallas-Ft. Worth 7 2,256 (2.0%)

Washington, DC (Hagrstwn) 8 2,224 (2.0%)

Atlanta 9 2,035 (1.8%)

Detroit 10 1,923 (1.7%)

Houston 11 1,849 (1.7%)

Seattle-Tacoma 12 1,685 (1.5%)

Tampa-St. Pete (Sarasota) 13 1,644 (1.5%)

Minneapolis-St. Paul 14 1,636 (1.5%)

Phoenix (Prescott), AZ 15 1,562 (1.4%)

Cleveland-Akron (Canton) 16 1,543 (1.4%)

Miami-Ft. Lauderdale 17 1,511 (1.3%)

Denver 18 1,399 (1.2%)

Sacramnto-Stktn-Modesto 19 1,278 (1.1%)

Orlando-Daytona Bch-Melbrn 20 1,264 (1.1%)

St. Louis 21 1,202 (1.1%)

Pittsburgh 22 1,175 (1.0%)

Baltimore 23 1,083 (0.9%)

Portland, OR 24 1,073 (0.9%)

Indianapolis 25 1,038 (0.9%)

San Diego 26 1,029 (0.9%)

Hartford & New Haven 27 1,001 (0.9%)

Charlotte 28 987 (0.9%)

Raleigh-Durham (Fayetvlle) 29 948 (0.8%)

Nashville 30 904 (0.8%)

Kansas City 31 875 (0.8%)

Milwaukee 32 871 (0.8%)

Cincinnati 33 872 (0.8%)

Columbus, OH 34 854 (0.7%)

Greenvll-Spart-Ashevll-And 35 807 (0.7%)

Salt Lake City 36 786 (0.7%)

San Antonio 37 736 (0.6%)

Grand Rapids-Kalmzoo-B.Crk 38 724 (0.6%)

West Palm Beach-Ft. Pierce 39 709 (0.6%)

Birmingham (Ann and Tusc) 40 698 (0.6%)

Norfolk-Portsmth-Newpt Nws 41 694 (0.6%)

Harrisburg-Lncstr-Leb-York 42 637 (0.5%)

New Orleans 43 665 (0.6%)

Memphis 44 662 (0.6%)

Oklahoma City 45 647 (0.5%)

Buffalo 46 648 (0.5%)

Albuquerque-Santa Fe 47 634 (0.5%)

Greensboro-H.Point-W.Salem 48 645 (0.5%)

Providence-New Bedford 49 636 (0.5%)

Louisville 50 624 (0.5%)

Las Vegas 51 602 (0.5%)

Jacksonville, Brunswick 52 598 (0.5%)

Wilkes Barre-Scranton 53 590 (0.5%)

Austin 54 578 (0.5%)

Albany-Schenectady-Troy 55 543 (0.5%)

Dayton 56 512 (0.4%)

Little Rock-Pine Bluff 57 524 (0.4%)

Fresno-Visalia 58 521 (0.4%)

Knoxville 59 499 (0.4%)

Tulsa 60 505 (0.4%)

Richmond-Petersburg 61 512 (0.4%)

Charleston-Huntington 62 495 (0.4%)

Mobile-Pensacola (Ft Walt) 63 498 (0.4%)

Lexington 64 467 (0.4%)

Flint-Saginaw-Bay City 65 474 (0.4%)

Wichita-Hutchinson Plus 66 448 (0.4%)

Roanoke-Lynchburg 67 450 (0.4%)

Ft. Myers-Naples 68 421 (0.3%)

Green Bay-Appleton 69 427 (0.3%)

Toledo 70 426 (0.3%)

Honolulu 71 412 (0.3%)

Tucson (Sierra Vista) 72 413 (0.3%)

Des Moines-Ames 73 405 (0.3%)

Portland-Auburn 74 399 (0.3%)

Rochester, NY 75 395 (0.3%)

Omaha 76 389 (0.3%)

Syracuse 77 384 (0.3%)

Springfield, MO 78 389 (0.3%)

Paducah-Cape Girard-Harsbg 79 391 (0.3%)

Spokane 80 382 (0.3%)

Shreveport 81 380 (0.3%)

Champaign&Sprngfld-Decatur 82 379 (0.3%)

Columbia, SC 83 364 (0.3%)

Huntsville-Decatur (Flor) 84 364 (0.3%)

Madison 85 355 (0.3%)

Chattanooga 86 349 (0.3%)

South Bend-Elkhart 87 330 (0.3%)

Cedar Rapids-Wtrlo-IWC&Dub 88 328 (0.3%)

Tri-Cities, TN-VA 89 322 (0.2%)

Burlington-Plattsburgh 90 323 (0.2%)

Jackson, MS 91 322 (0.2%)

Colorado Springs-Pueblo 92 310 (0.2%)

Harlingen-Wslco-Brnsvl-McA 93 297 (0.2%)

Davenport-R.Island-Moline 94 308 (0.2%)

Waco-Temple-Bryan 95 310 (0.2%)

Baton Rouge 96 300 (0.2%)

Johnstown-Altoona 97 297 (0.2%)

Savannah 98 289 (0.2%)

Evansville 99 284 (0.2%)

El Paso (Las Cruces) 100 284 (0.2%)

Charleston, SC 101 270 (0.2%)

Youngstown 102 279 (0.2%)

Lincoln & Hstngs-Krny Plus 103 274 (0.2%)

Ft. Wayne 104 269 (0.2%)

Greenville-N.Bern-Washngtn 105 271 (0.2%)

Springfield-Holyoke 106 261 (0.2%)

Ft. Smith-Fay-Sprngdl-Rgrs 107 260 (0.2%)

Myrtle Beach-Florence 108 258 (0.2%)

Tallahassee-Thomasville 109 250 (0.2%)

Lansing 110 252 (0.2%)

Tyler-Longview(Lfkn&Ncgd) 111 260 (0.2%)

Traverse City-Cadillac 112 249 (0.2%)

Montgomery-Selma 113 243 (0.2%)

Reno 114 242 (0.2%)

Augusta 115 244 (0.2%)

Sioux Falls(Mitchell) 116 247 (0.2%)

Peoria-Bloomington 117 241 (0.2%)

Fargo-Valley City 118 233 (0.2%)

Macon 119 225 (0.2%)

Eugene 120 227 (0.2%)

SantaBarbra-SanMar-SanLuOb 121 230 (0.2%)

Boise 122 222 (0.2%)

Lafayette, LA 123 216 (0.1%)

Monterey-Salinas 124 226 (0.2%)

Columbus, GA 125 208 (0.1%)

Yakima-Pasco-Rchlnd-Knnwck 126 201 (0.1%)

La Crosse-Eau Claire 127 207 (0.1%)

Bakersfield 128 190 (0.1%)

Corpus Christi 129 194 (0.1%)

Amarillo 130 191 (0.1%)

Chico-Redding 131 186 (0.1%)

Columbus-Tupelo-West Point 132 188 (0.1%)

Wausau-Rhinelander 133 179 (0.1%)

Rockford 134 179 (0.1%)

Monroe-El Dorado 135 174 (0.1%)

Duluth-Superior 136 172 (0.1%)

Topeka 137 172 (0.1%)

Beaumont-Port Arthur 138 171 (0.1%)

Columbia-Jefferson City 139 167 (0.1%)

Wilmington 140 159 (0.1%)

Medford-Klamath Falls 141 161 (0.1%)

Erie 142 159 (0.1%)

Sioux City 143 158 (0.1%)

Wichita Falls & Lawton 144 158 (0.1%)

Lubbock 145 152 (0.1%)

Joplin-Pittsburg 146 153 (0.1%)

Albany, GA 147 157 (0.1%)

Bluefield-Beckley-Oak Hill 148 144 (0.1%)

Terre Haute 149 146 (0.1%)

Salisbury 150 145 (0.1%)

Bangor 151 140 (0.1%)

Wheeling-Steubenville 152 142 (0.1%)

Rochestr-Mason City-Austin 153 141 (0.1%)

Binghamton 154 139 (0.1%)

Anchorage 155 136 (0.1%)

Biloxi-Gulfport 156 134 (0.1%)

Minot-Bismarck-Dickinson 157 132 (0.1%)

Odessa-Midland 158 133 (0.1%)

Palm Springs 159 125 (0.1%)

Panama City 160 133 (0.1%)

Sherman, TX-Ada, OK 161 122 (0.1%)

Gainesville 162 117 (0.1%)

Abilene-Sweetwater 163 115 (0.1%)

Idaho Falls-Pocatello 164 110 (0.1%)

Clarksburg-Weston 165 106 (0.0%)

Utica 166 105 (0.0%)

Quincy-Hannibal-Keokuk 167 106 (0.0%)

Hattiesburg-Laurel 168 102 (0.0%)

Missoula 169 100 (0.0%)

Billings 170 99 (0.0%)

Yuma-El Centro 171 99 (0.0%)

Dothan 172 99 (0.0%)

Elmira (Corning) 173 98 (0.0%)

Jackson, TN 174 75 (0.0%)

Watertown 175 91 (0.0%)

Alexandria, LA 176 92 (0.0%)

Lake Charles 177 93 (0.0%)

Rapid City 178 94 (0.0%)

Jonesboro 179 88 (0.0%)

Marquette 180 90 (0.0%)

Harrisonburg 181 86 (0.0%)

Bowling Green 182 80 (0.0%)

Greenwood-Greenville 183 79 (0.0%)

Meridian 184 71 (0.0%)

Charlottesville 185 70 (0.0%)

Lafayette, IN 186 63 (0.0%)

Parkersburg 187 65 (0.0%)

Great Falls 188 64 (0.0%)

Grand Junction-Montrose 189 62 (0.0%)

Laredo 190 60 (0.0%)

Twin Falls 191 59 (0.0%)

Eureka 192 58 (0.0%)

Butte-Bozeman, MT 193 57 (0.0%)

Lima 194 71 (0.0%)

Cheyenne, WY-Scottsbluff 195 53 (0.0%)

San Angelo 196 54 (0.0%)

Bend, OR 197 51 (0.0%)

Casper-Riverton 198 51 (0.0%)

Mankato 199 51 (0.0%)

Ottumwa-Kirksville 200 51 (0.0%)

St. Joseph 201 50 (0.0%)

Zanesville 202 33 (0.0%)

Presque Isle 203 30 (0.0%)

Fairbanks 204 32 (0.0%)

Victoria 205 31 (0.0%)

Helena 206 25 (0.0%)

Juneau, AK 207 26 (0.0%)

Alpena 208 18 (0.0%)

North Platte 209 16 (0.0%)

Glendive 210 5 (0.0%)

 

Top 50 Metropolitan Areas Ranked by Population, 2003

Rank Population (in 000s) Name

1 18,641 New York, Northern New Jersey-Long Island, NY- NJ, PA

2 12,829 Los Angeles-Long Beach-Santa Ana, CA

3 9,334 Chicago, IL-IN-WI

4 5,773 Philadelphia, PA-NJ-DE

5 5,590 Dallas-Fort Worth, TX

6 5,289 Miami-Fort Lauderdale, FL

7 5,090 Washington, DC-VA-MD-WV

8 5,076 Houston, TX

9 4,610 Atlanta, GA

10 4,484 Detroit, MI

11 4,440 Boston, MA-NH

12 4,157 San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, CA

13 3,642 Riverside-San Bernaardino-Ontario, CA

14 3,593 Phoenix, AZ

15 3,142 Seattle-Tacoma, WA

16 3,084 Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN-WI

17 2,931 San Diego, CA

18 2,759 St. Louis, MO-IL

19 2,616 Baltimore, MD

20 2,532 Tampa-St. Petersburg, FL

21 2,410 Pittsburgh, PA

22 2,301 Denver, CO

23 2,140 Cleveland, OH

24 2,047 CIncinnati, OH-KY-IN

25 2,040 Portland, OR-WA

26 1,975 Sacremento, CA

27 1,905 Kansas City, MO-KS

28 1,821 San Antonio, TX

29 1,803 Orlando, FL

30 1,735 San Jose, CA

31 1,675 Columbus, OH

32 1,637 Virginia Beach-Norfolk-Newport News, VA

33 1,623 Providence, RI-MA

34 1,595 Indianapolis, IN

35 1,577 Las Vegas, NV

36 1,514 Milwaukee, WI

37 1,437 Charlotte, NC-SC

38 1,378 Austin, TX

39 1,371 Nashville, TN

40 1,318 New Orleans, LA

41 1,239 Memphis, TN-MS-AR

42 1,203 Jacksonville, FL

43 1,190 Louisville, KY, IN

44 1,178 Hartford, CT

45 1,159 Buffalo-Niagra Falls, NY

46 1,138 Richmand, VA

47 1,133 Oklahoma City, OK

48 1,073 Birmingham, AL

49 1,041 Rochester, NY

50 1,005 Salt Lake City, UT

Metropolitan statistical areas as defined by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget as of December 2003

Finally, some good off the field news.

 

Not really

fishfan where did you get those HH market stats from? dude ORlando got a bigger market than San Antonio if it wasn't for Duncan and parker going out with Eva Longoria the place would be a fill up station on your way to California

fishfan where did you get those HH market stats from? dude ORlando got a bigger market than San Antonio if it wasn't for Duncan and parker going out with Eva Longoria the place would be a fill up station on your way to California

 

 

English, please.

si senior donde esta los SAn Antonio marlins para ver un juego de baseball.. :hat

si senior donde esta los SAn Antonio marlins para ver un juego de baseball.. :hat

 

 

you are a tool.

The first list is the list of DMA's or "TV markets" ranked by number of households. The second list is metropolitan areas ranked by population. In some markets (Especially ones that are heavy Hispanic) Household size is bigger than average. So San Antonio has a much smaller HH count than Orlando but about the same population. Marketers tend to look at HH count when picking markets because in general a HH with 4 people (2 parents and 2 kids) has thee same number of decision makers as one with 5 (2 parents and 3 kids).

I could never find it thanks I did notice they don't consider palmbeach with us... the 2 guys that sit next to me at the Heat games are from Delray Beach they don't show up all the time but you find them there on fri sat sun games and make a effort to show up to Big games hey if you love the sport you make time. i can't believe we are behind Cleveland :( ehh

 

wait a minute they got Tampa ahead of us in Market ? how can that be

wait a minute they got Tampa ahead of us in Market ? how can that be

 

 

they have way less latinos than us. that's probably why.

I could never find it thanks I did notice they don't consider palmbeach with us... the 2 guys that sit next to me at the Heat games are from Delray Beach they don't show up all the time but you find them there on fri sat sun games and make a effort to show up to Big games hey if you love the sport you make time. i can't believe we are behind Cleveland :( ehh

 

wait a minute they got Tampa ahead of us in Market ? how can that be

 

 

did you all of a sudden learn to speak English?

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