LinkFBI detains 7 in domestic terror probe

Sources: Targets may have included Sears Tower, FBI building

 

 

MIAMI, Florida (CNN) -- Seven people are in custody after a sweep by law enforcement authorities in connection with an alleged plot against targets that may have included the Sears Tower, officials told CNN on Thursday.

 

Officials said no weapons or bomb-making materials had been found in the searches in the Miami area by FBI and state and local law enforcement officials. The city is under no imminent threat, according to the FBI.

 

Law enforcement sources told CNN that the arrests disrupted what may have been the early stages of a domestic terrorist plot to attack the Sears Tower in Chicago, Illinois, the FBI building in Miami, and possibly other targets. (Watch details of the raids -- 2:53)

 

The 110-story Sears Tower is the world's third-tallest building and the tallest in North America.

 

Sources told CNN that the arrests culminated a yearlong, undercover operation. Documents related to the investigation have been sealed.

 

One of the arrests was made before Thursday, officials said.

 

The FBI said one search warrant was executed in a warehouse near a housing project in Liberty City, a predominantly black and low-income area of Miami.

 

Cedric Thomas, a co-owner of Thomas Produce Market, told the Miami Herald that the area around his store was teeming with federal agents.

 

''There is a ton of guys in uniforms moving around, blocking the streets. I'm not sure what they are doing,'' Thomas told the newspaper.

 

"We are conducting a number of arrests and searches, and we'll have more about that when the operation is completed, probably tomorrow morning," FBI Director Robert Mueller told CNN's Admin King in an interview broadcast Thursday night.

 

"Because it's an ongoing operation, we really can't get into details," Mueller said. "But whenever we undertake an operation like this, we would not do it without the approval of a judge. We've got search warrants and arrest warrants and the like. ...."

 

In a statement, the U.S. attorney's office in Miami said federal, state and local agencies made the arrests in connection with a domestic "terrorist-related matter."

 

Attorney General Alberto Gonzales will hold a news conference Friday regarding the raids.

It seems like every terrorist hides in Miami...

Their making a big story out of this to justify domestic spying.

Their making a big story out of this to justify domestic spying.

 

 

This should be a big story anyway. We don't need to make conspiracy theories about everything.

These guys were called the Keystone Cops of terrorism. Supposedly they didn't have the means and weren't organized enough to pull this off.

 

I'm still glad they're off the streets but this wasn't exactly the catch of the century.

There was a report on the frontpage of the Herald today that they were setup by the government. I'll post it as soon as I find it.

 

Did feds foil -- or foster -- terror plot?

 

Some suggest the seven men accused of terror-related offenses were victims of entrapment by federal authorities who manufactured the crime. Officials argue they thwarted a potential attack on the Sears Tower in Chicago and buildings in Miami.

 

BY SCOTT HIAASEN

A snitch and a sting.

 

Even with expanded legal powers after 9/11, federal agents relied on a familiar formula to snare the seven men accused of plotting a terrorist attack on Chicago's Sears Tower from a warehouse in Liberty City.

 

The defense claims raised by lawyers for the men will likely include equally familiar claims of entrapment and government overreaching.

 

In many respects, the Liberty City case resembles other recent terrorism cases from Hollywood to New York to California: An informant infiltrates a group of anti-American zealots and records -- or even encourages -- their violent plans.

 

The seven men -- Narseal Batiste, Patrick Abraham, Stanley Phanor, Naudimar Herrera, Burson Augustin, Lyglenson Lemorin, and Rotschild Augustine -- have been charged with conspiring to support al Qaeda. But the closest the group got to Osama bin Laden was an FBI informant posing as an ``al Qaeda representative.''

 

The indictment documents several meetings between Batiste, the group's 32-year-old suspected ringleader, and the informant. The men discuss potential terrorism targets, including FBI offices in five cities, and list needed supplies, including machine guns, bulletproof vests and combat boots, the indictment said.

 

Perhaps just as damaging is that all seven men swore an oath of loyalty to al Qaeda, the indictment says.

 

But the indictment also suggests that the men were nowhere near executing their plans.

 

The defendants had no guns or other weapons when they were arrested last week. The informant did provide some boots and a camera for the suspects to photograph a North Miami Beach FBI office and other local targets, the indictment says.

 

But it's unclear from the indictment whether the alleged conspirators actually visited their most ambitious target, the 110-story Sears Tower in Chicago.

 

These factors have led some to question whether the government went too far in its prosecution and has entrapped the men by manufacturing the crime for them.

 

''I don't think anyone seriously believes that these were real terrorists. We used to have agents and confidential informants creating drug deals in Liberty City. Now it looks like they are creating homegrown cells,'' said David O. Markus, president of the Miami chapter of the Florida Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers.

 

Government officials, including U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, said they moved swiftly to make sure the plan became no more than that.

 

Said Gonzalez on Friday: ``I think it's dangerous for us to try to make an evaluation, case by case, as we look at potential terrorist plots and making a decision, well, this is a really dangerous group, this is not a really dangerous group. We look at the facts in every particular case. And we felt that the combination of the planning and the overt acts taken were sufficient to support this prosecution.''

 

If lawyers for the seven men raise entrapment as a defense -- the lawyers either declined to comment or could not be reached on Friday -- it could be a difficult argument for a jury to accept. Last month, a New York City jury rejected an entrapment defense in a terrorism prosecution based on a plan to bomb a subway -- a case built with the help of a paid informant.

 

The critical evidence in the Liberty City case, lawyers say, will be the tape-recorded conversations between the informant and the defendants.

 

If it appears the informant is driving the plot more than the defendants, it could give weight to an entrapment defense, said attorney Philip Horowitz, who represented a Broward County terrorism defendant four years ago.

 

''Once you actually hear the tapes, I can guarantee you the informants were doing a lot more than merely listening,'' Horowitz said.

 

The lawyers could also try to convince the jury that the plotters were incapable of pulling off the plan without the informant's help.

 

But to prove entrapment, defense lawyers must show that the suspects had ''no predisposition'' to commit the crimes before they were coaxed by police, said defense lawyer Milton Hirsch. That's very hard to prove, he said.

 

Jurors and judges usually accept some amount of encouragement of the defendants by the informants in terrorism cases -- but this can still affect how these cases are resolved.

 

When 19-year-old Imran Mandhai appealed his 11-year sentence for plotting to blow up power plants and other targets in Miami-Dade and Broward, the appeals court noted that an informant ''challenged'' Mandhai when he seemed to get cold feet.

 

The court said a sentence below the guidelines was not inappropriate for Mandhai in part because of how the informants behaved.

 

''Every time Mandhai, the only teenager involved, had second thoughts, [the two informants], both seasoned adults, kept the conspiracy on track,'' the court said.

 

Mandhai's 2002 case mirrors the Liberty City case in many ways: Investigators detailed discussions of terrorist plans while documenting few steps toward making those plans come true. Mandhai pleaded guilty to conspiracy, as did a co-defendant, Shueyb Mossa Jokhan.

 

In another similar case, a Boca Raton doctor, Rafiq Abdus Sabir, is awaiting trial in New York after he was indicted for planning to offer medical aid to Middle East terrorists.

 

Sabir is accused of swearing an oath to Bin Laden -- to an FBI agent posing as an al Qaeda recruiter.

 

Hirsch said defense lawyers could attack the Liberty City indictment as a conspiracy closer to fantasy than reality, portraying the defendants as ''terrorists in their own minds'' and far from dangerous.

 

But under conspiracy and anti-terrorism laws, it doesn't matter if a plot is imminent or not.

 

In 2004, the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals refused to reduce Mandhai's sentence because his plots were so far from being completed. Mandhai's sentence had been enhanced under anti-terrorism statutes.

 

''The terrorism enhancement does not hinge upon a defendant's ability to carry out specific terrorist crimes or the degree of separation from their actual implementation,'' the court said. ``Rather, it is the defendant's purpose that is relevant.''

 

Miami Herald staff writer Admin Lebowitz contributed to this story.

 

 

 

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/14897299.htm

 

 

I know that this is used for many other types of crime, but this is quite interesting. What do ya'll think of it?

It'll be interesting to find out exactly when the government got involved.

This is no different than the ICE agents going online pretending to be 12 year old boys in order to set up meetings with pedophiles and arrest them. If you dont think thats entrapment then neither is this. Plus the article writer forgets that their proximity to al qaeda isnt what determines if theyre terrorists or not. If they were planning an attack in any way shape or form and the FBI operative became a part of it, it is just good police work. (by the way of course the lawyers will argue entrapment, thats the protocol defense for this type of cases

This is no different than the ICE agents going online pretending to be 12 year old boys in order to set up meetings with pedophiles and arrest them. If you dont think thats entrapment then neither is this. Plus the article writer forgets that their proximity to al qaeda isnt what determines if theyre terrorists or not. If they were planning an attack in any way shape or form and the FBI operative became a part of it, it is just good police work. (by the way of course the lawyers will argue entrapment, thats the protocol defense for this type of cases

I happen to agree but its the shear fact that the government almost set this whole thing up and then paraded it as proof that the system works that pisses me off. Because by all rights these guys were never legitimate threats.

This is no different than the ICE agents going online pretending to be 12 year old boys in order to set up meetings with pedophiles and arrest them. If you dont think thats entrapment then neither is this. Plus the article writer forgets that their proximity to al qaeda isnt what determines if theyre terrorists or not. If they were planning an attack in any way shape or form and the FBI operative became a part of it, it is just good police work. (by the way of course the lawyers will argue entrapment, thats the protocol defense for this type of cases

I happen to agree but its the shear fact that the government almost set this whole thing up and then paraded it as proof that the system works that pisses me off. Because by all rights these guys were never legitimate threats.

 

They werent threats assuming entrapment. I'm glad to have them off the streets and what pisses me off is hypocrisy. This method is ok to catch pedohpiles and mobsters but not terrorists. This type of law enforcement differentiation is what paved the way for 9/11 in the first place

This is no different than the ICE agents going online pretending to be 12 year old boys in order to set up meetings with pedophiles and arrest them. If you dont think thats entrapment then neither is this. Plus the article writer forgets that their proximity to al qaeda isnt what determines if theyre terrorists or not. If they were planning an attack in any way shape or form and the FBI operative became a part of it, it is just good police work. (by the way of course the lawyers will argue entrapment, thats the protocol defense for this type of cases

I happen to agree but its the shear fact that the government almost set this whole thing up and then paraded it as proof that the system works that pisses me off. Because by all rights these guys were never legitimate threats.

 

They werent threats assuming entrapment. I'm glad to have them off the streets and what pisses me off is hypocrisy. This method is ok to catch pedohpiles and mobsters but not terrorists. This type of law enforcement differentiation is what paved the way for 9/11 in the first place I think I should have worded it differently. I hate watching the federal government parade this around as a real threat (before the rest of the info came out, that is).

This is no different than the ICE agents going online pretending to be 12 year old boys in order to set up meetings with pedophiles and arrest them. If you dont think thats entrapment then neither is this. Plus the article writer forgets that their proximity to al qaeda isnt what determines if theyre terrorists or not. If they were planning an attack in any way shape or form and the FBI operative became a part of it, it is just good police work. (by the way of course the lawyers will argue entrapment, thats the protocol defense for this type of cases

I happen to agree but its the shear fact that the government almost set this whole thing up and then paraded it as proof that the system works that pisses me off. Because by all rights these guys were never legitimate threats.

 

They werent threats assuming entrapment. I'm glad to have them off the streets and what pisses me off is hypocrisy. This method is ok to catch pedohpiles and mobsters but not terrorists. This type of law enforcement differentiation is what paved the way for 9/11 in the first place I think I should have worded it differently. I hate watching the federal government parade this around as a real threat (before the rest of the info came out, that is).

 

But it may have been a real threat, if it had been a Hezbollah agent rather an FBI agent pretending to be Al-Qaeda that approached these dudes.

I'm not sure if these guys really qualify as terrorists. They had no explosives, no plans to attack anything, and they hadn't even taken any photos of potential targets. I think they were just considering taking a more radical action. There's no way to know if they would actually go through with something like that.

 

I doubt that this can be considered much of a success in the War on Terror. Get back to me when you find that Bin Laden guy.

This is no different than the ICE agents going online pretending to be 12 year old boys in order to set up meetings with pedophiles and arrest them. If you dont think thats entrapment then neither is this. Plus the article writer forgets that their proximity to al qaeda isnt what determines if theyre terrorists or not. If they were planning an attack in any way shape or form and the FBI operative became a part of it, it is just good police work. (by the way of course the lawyers will argue entrapment, thats the protocol defense for this type of cases

I happen to agree but its the shear fact that the government almost set this whole thing up and then paraded it as proof that the system works that pisses me off. Because by all rights these guys were never legitimate threats.

 

I agree, and i think that its horrible. They need good news so bad, they create it.

 

I got suspicious the night they were arrested when i saw one of the guys sister being interviewed. She said they were poor guys, christians, construction workers, 'din' bein' in no alqaeda', and 2 guys from HAITI? I turned to my dad and said. OK, im gonna sound like an idiot for saying this, and im probably wrong, but... i get the feeling the FBI agent started the convo with, 'hey, wanna make 20 bucks? If you wanted to blow something up........'

This is no different than the ICE agents going online pretending to be 12 year old boys in order to set up meetings with pedophiles and arrest them. If you dont think thats entrapment then neither is this. Plus the article writer forgets that their proximity to al qaeda isnt what determines if theyre terrorists or not. If they were planning an attack in any way shape or form and the FBI operative became a part of it, it is just good police work. (by the way of course the lawyers will argue entrapment, thats the protocol defense for this type of cases

I happen to agree but its the shear fact that the government almost set this whole thing up and then paraded it as proof that the system works that pisses me off. Because by all rights these guys were never legitimate threats.

 

I agree, and i think that its horrible. They need good news so bad, they create it.

 

I got suspicious the night they were arrested when i saw one of the guys sister being interviewed. She said they were poor guys, christians, construction workers, 'din' bein' in no alqaeda', and 2 guys from HAITI? I turned to my dad and said. OK, im gonna sound like an idiot for saying this, and im probably wrong, but... i get the feeling the FBI agent started the convo with, 'hey, wanna make 20 bucks? If you wanted to blow something up........'

 

Looks to me like the media is the one creating things. These guys were investigated for quite some time. Being so certain that these guys were no threat just bc CNN said so is as irresponsible as what you are critisizing the govt for doing.

 

And in fact stoping terrorist cells needs to be done in this way. This is the way terrorism functions, in fact catching bin laden is just a symbolic victory. Terrorism needs to be stopped at the active cadre (the cells), stopping the command cadre only messes with the organizaiton of attacks for a little while