I read half way through this article and I wanted to throw my opinion out there. Why does success always have to be about how big your payroll is? Really....tell me the last time the Yanks won the Series? Sure, the big payroll teams have a better chance at winning, but look at the Fish and what this team has accomplished with raw talent.

 

I guess my point is that Ricciardi talks about needing more money to win, when in fact he needs to actually look at talent.

 

mlb.com

 

 

I don't think you're going to win the division with $70 million," Ricciardi said. "I don't think you can make the playoffs on $70 million. I think you can be competitive and you can have some good years, but I think these two teams, with their payroll, it's going to be really tough to catch them if we stay at $70 million

 

 

Toronto bumped its payroll by nearly $30 million over the winter

 

That one really gets me, bumped $30 mil and still nothing. It's not always about the money J.P.!

i know JP and he is a smart guy...the difference is that the yankees spend a huge amount of money to win the division every year, which guarentees them at least the playoffs...and other than this past year, either tha yankees won it, or the team that beat the yankees in the playoffs...quite simply, the american league east basically finishes the same every year and every year, the order goes by payroll...thats why JP feels he needs lots of money to work with...

the Jays should up their payroll some, it is hard to compete (most of the time) on a payroll of 70 mill when your rivals have 220 mill. what riccardi said is true. not every team has Admin beinfest.

Maybe he shouldn't construct a team that has so many multiple 1B and 3B.

And overrated and thusly overpaid free agent pitching.

And overrated and thusly overpaid free agent pitching.

 

:lol better them than us.

a huge payroll doesn't allow you to win, winning allows a huge payroll

But you really can't win that division with a $70 million payroll. It's not just the Yankees and Red Sox, it's the Orioles, too.

 

A decade of history can't be wrong.

But you really can't win that division with a $70 million payroll. It's not just the Yankees and Red Sox, it's the Orioles, too.

 

A decade of history can't be wrong.

 

True, but what does that money buy?

 

Talent.

 

If you as a GM can find that talent cheaply, such as the Marlins have, winning that division can happen with a lower payroll. Besides, there's enough talent on that team to win, it's just that they don't. The Orioles are a prime example. Paying big dollars for talent and said talent blows. Trust me I know, as I'm a big fan of the O's.

 

The Fish can't be the only organization that consistantly finds these players.

the marlins also wouldnt be doing nearly as well in the AL.. it flatout has better talent.

But you really can't win that division with a $70 million payroll. It's not just the Yankees and Red Sox, it's the Orioles, too.

 

A decade of history can't be wrong.

 

True, but what does that money buy?

 

Talent.

 

If you as a GM can find that talent cheaply, such as the Marlins have, winning that division can happen with a lower payroll. Besides, there's enough talent on that team to win, it's just that they don't. The Orioles are a prime example. Paying big dollars for talent and said talent blows. Trust me I know, as I'm a big fan of the O's.

 

The Fish can't be the only organization that consistantly finds these players.

The trick is the Marlins focus on a few things (scouting minor leaguers, projecting short-term talent) and do those few things very well. The Blue Jays and Orioles have to divide their staff, which even overall isn't said to be up to the standards of the Marlins', across a number of potential sources of talent.

a huge payroll doesn't allow you to win, winning allows a huge payroll

 

 

Right, because we're shelling out $7.5m per ring that we've earned over the past ten years. Putting fans in seats, having good TV deals and the like allows for a huge payroll.

 

Ricciardi does have a point though - we're not competing for the division title this year but do have a shot at the playoffs. We would be in a situation very similar to the Blue Jays if we were in their division regardless of whether our payroll was $15m or $70m. Over 162 games, teams who can spend 2-3x as much on players will have a decisive advantage. The Blue Jays have to rely on their big FA they signed away from the Marlins because they don't have many outs, whereas the Yankees could care less about Pavano getting hurt falling down in the shower or whatever he's done lately.

 

To quote a personality on WFAN on the Abreu trade - "who cares about the money ($7m that the Yankees took on), the Red Sox should have offered similar talent to the Yankees." I could be missing something, but to some teams, that $7m represents half of their payroll and is still a lot to almost everybody.

the marlins also wouldnt be doing nearly as well in the AL.. it flatout has better talent.

 

I remember a time when that was turned around. I agree completely shammy.

One day people will figure out moneyball is only as good as your pitching staff. The Sabr's exploiting the importance of OBP is a great thing, but really the A's aren't about OBP or "slow, fat guys" at all. In fact, this year's A's sucess is all about the shift Beane had in philosophy, which is why their defense is so much better and why they revamed their bullpen, which is by far the deepest in baseball. Beane is smart enough to know that it's all about pitching (starting and bullpen, which he has), and his moneyball/OBP system isn't something he uses to be better and smarter on offense, but rather to build a very inexpensive offense. In order to build an inexpensive offense, Beane simply overlooks the expensive factors like speed and .300 plus batting average, instead keeping an eye on on base percentage and other factors which you can use to build a strong offense at a low rate.

 

As for payroll, Bonds715 said it perfectly. Big payroll doesn't allow you to win, winning allows you to have a big payroll (SEE: 2005 White Sox, and now 2006 White Sox, respectively). All payroll is is a sign of how much you will pay and overpay for players and talent sets that are seen as pricey. You can be like the Marlins (all young), the A's (young pitching and undervalued offensive skills), or the Twins (mixing relatively high priced vets with A TON of cheap, homegrown talent) and still win. All spending money does often times is show a sign of laziness in scouting, and a reliance on free agents and outbidding people for veterans to try and win. It doesn't guarantee success, and in fact often times makes it harder to attain (the Yankees the last several years for instance, or the Mets for the last several before 2006).

 

As for a decade of history can't be wrong.....the Yankees won for quite a while with home grown talent (despite what the high payroll said) and the reason they win is they mix homegrown talent (which they can afford to keep for life) with high priced free agents. The Yankees issue is they can't develop pitching from within their system, and all the money in the world can't just buy quality pitching since people won't give it up and won't trade it. The Red Sox have been little brother to the Yanks obviously, but their success hasn't been all that different from what New York has done, just on a smaller scale (except 2004 of course). The Blue Jays, D Rays, and Orioles problem (which will continue) has been a mixture of not spending enough, and when they DO spend, spending on a horrible set of players.