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Muslim anger over papal comments grows

 

By BENJAMIN HARVEY Associated Press Writer

? 2006 The Associated Press

 

ISTANBUL, Turkey ? Pakistan's legislature unanimously condemned Pope Benedict XVI. Lebanon's top Shiite cleric demanded an apology. And in Turkey, the ruling party likened the pontiff to Hitler and Mussolini and accused him of reviving the mentality of the Crusades.

 

Across the Islamic world Friday, Benedict's remarks on Islam and jihad in a speech in Germany unleashed a torrent of rage that many fear could burst into violent protests like those that followed publication of caricatures of the Prophet Muhammad.

 

By citing an obscure Medieval text that characterizes some of the teachings of Islam's founder as "evil and inhuman," Benedict inflamed Muslim passions and aggravated fears of a new outbreak of anti-Western protests.

 

The last outpouring of Islamic anger at the West came in February over the prophet cartoons first published in a Danish newspaper. The drawings sparked protests _ some of them deadly _ in almost every Muslim nation in the world.

 

Some experts said the perceived provocation by the spiritual leader of more than a billion Roman Catholics could leave even deeper scars.

 

"The declarations from the pope are more dangerous than the cartoons, because they come from the most important Christian authority in the world _ the cartoons just came from an artist," said Diaa Rashwan, an analyst in Cairo, Egypt, who studies Islamic militancy.

 

On Friday, Pakistan's parliament adopted a resolution condemning Benedict for making what it called "derogatory" comments about Islam, and seeking an apology. Hours later, the Pakistani Foreign Ministry summoned the Vatican's ambassador to express regret over the pope's remarks Tuesday.

 

Notably, the strongest denunciations came from Turkey _ a moderate democracy seeking European Union membership where Benedict is scheduled to visit in November as his first trip as pope to a Muslim country.

 

Salih Kapusuz, deputy leader of Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's Islamic-rooted party, said Benedict's remarks were either "the result of pitiful ignorance" about Islam and its prophet or, worse, a deliberate distortion.

 

"He has a dark mentality that comes from the darkness of the Middle Ages. He is a poor thing that has not benefited from the spirit of reform in the Christian world," Kapusuz told Turkish state media. "It looks like an effort to revive the mentality of the Crusades."

 

"Benedict, the author of such unfortunate and insolent remarks, is going down in history for his words," Kapusuz added. "He is going down in history in the same category as leaders such as Hitler and Mussolini."

 

Even Turkey's staunchly pro-secular opposition party demanded the pope apologize before his visit. Another party led a demonstration outside Ankara's largest mosque, and a group of about 50 people placed a black wreath outside the Vatican's diplomatic mission.

 

Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi has tried to defuse anger, saying the pope did not intend to offend Muslim sensibilities and insisting Benedict respects Islam. In Pakistan, the Vatican envoy voiced regret at "the hurt caused to Muslims."

 

But Muslim leaders said outreach efforts by papal emissaries were not enough.

 

"We do not accept the apology through Vatican channels ... and ask him (Benedict) to offer a personal apology _ not through his officials," Grand Ayatollah Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, Lebanon's most senior Shiite cleric, told worshippers in Beirut.

 

Rashwan, the analyst, feared the official condemnations could be followed by widespread popular protests. Already there had been scattered demonstrations in several Muslim countries.

 

"What we have right now are public reactions to the pope's comments from political and religious figures, but I'm not optimistic concerning the reaction from the general public, especially since we have no correction from the Vatican," Rashwan said.

 

About 2,000 Palestinians angrily protested Friday night in Gaza City. Earlier, Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, of the Islamic militant group Hamas, said the pope had offended Muslims everywhere.

 

The pope quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th-century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and a Persian scholar on the truths of Christianity and Islam.

 

"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," Benedict said. "He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.'"

 

The pope did not explicitly agree with nor repudiate the comment.

 

In Britain, the head of the Muslim Council, a body representing 400 Muslim groups, said the emperor's views quoted by the pope were bigoted.

 

"One would expect a religious leader such as the pope to act and speak with responsibility and repudiate the Byzantine emperor's views in the interests of truth and harmonious relations between the followers of Islam and Catholicism," said Muhammad Abdul Bari, the council's secretary-general.

 

Many Muslims accused Benedict of seeking to promote Judeo-Christian dominance over Islam.

 

Even Iraq's often divided Shiite and Sunni Arabs found unity in their anger over the remarks, with clerics from both communities criticizing Benedict.

 

"The pope and Vatican proved to be Zionists and that they are far from Christianity, which does not differ from Islam. Both religions call for forgiveness, love and brotherhood," Shiite cleric Sheik Abdul-Kareem al-Ghazi said during a sermon in Iraq's second-largest city, Basra.

 

Few in Turkey, especially, failed to pick up on Benedict's reference to Istanbul as Constantinople _ the city's name more than 500 years ago _ before it was conquered by Muslim Ottoman Turks.

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel defended the German-born pope, saying his message had been misunderstood.

 

"It is an invitation to dialogue between religions and the pope has explicitly urged this dialogue, which I also endorse and see as urgently necessary," she said Friday. "What Benedict XVI makes clear is a decisive and uncompromising rejection of any use of violence in the name of religion."

 

In the United States, a Muslim group, the Council for American-Islamic Relations, asked for a meeting with a Vatican representative and urged more efforts at improving understanding between Muslims and Catholics.

 

"The proper response to the pope's inaccurate and divisive remarks is for Muslims and Catholics worldwide to increase dialogue and outreach efforts aimed at building better relations between Christianity and Islam," the group said.

 

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/world/4190468.html

 

Ah, yes. The Pope = Hitler because he cited a 500 year old quote in one of his speeches.

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The historical figure of Muhammed was a ruthless conqueror. I see nothing wrong with the quote.

 

yeah...im sure the hebrews/jews never did any ruthless conquering of their own... :whistle

 

It is a matter of historical record that ancient Hebrews were conquering warrior-philosophers when they claimed the holy land for themselves thousands of years ago. The distinction is, Jews are neither offended nor ashamed of the biblical past.

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The historical figure of Muhammed was a ruthless conqueror. I see nothing wrong with the quote.

 

yeah...im sure the hebrews/jews never did any ruthless conquering of their own... :whistle

 

It is a matter of historical record that ancient Hebrews were conquering warrior-philosophers when they claimed the holy land for themselves thousands of years ago. The distinction is, Jews are neither offended nor ashamed of the biblical past. Bingo.

 

 

In Judaica school we are taught that we came in, conquered over the various pagan tribes of the area (who proceeded to go on and lead successful lives elsewhere, in fact some are still around today) in Canaan, and unified the territory.

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Good thing you didn't highlight other parts when you accuse billions of people of thinking as a group and wanting to blow people up:

 

In the United States, a Muslim group, the Council for American-Islamic Relations, asked for a meeting with a Vatican representative and urged more efforts at improving understanding between Muslims and Catholics.

 

"The proper response to the pope's inaccurate and divisive remarks is for Muslims and Catholics worldwide to increase dialogue and outreach efforts aimed at building better relations between Christianity and Islam," the group said.

 

But don't worry. I'm sure Accord is super pumped to bring peace and democracy to the Muslim world by killing as many Muslim's as he can.

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Good thing you didn't highlight other parts when you accuse billions of people of thinking as a group and wanting to blow people up:

 

In the United States, a Muslim group, the Council for American-Islamic Relations, asked for a meeting with a Vatican representative and urged more efforts at improving understanding between Muslims and Catholics.

 

"The proper response to the pope's inaccurate and divisive remarks is for Muslims and Catholics worldwide to increase dialogue and outreach efforts aimed at building better relations between Christianity and Islam," the group said.

 

But don't worry. I'm sure Accord is super pumped to bring peace and democracy to the Muslim world by killing as many Muslim's as he can.

Can some of you guys stop trying to drive this thread into some inane direction? Let your personal issues with posters go.

He just posted an article dealing with a hot topic in the news. Your last statement was pretty much unneeded and hypocritical of you.

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Good thing you didn't highlight other parts when you accuse billions of people of thinking as a group and wanting to blow people up:

 

In the United States, a Muslim group, the Council for American-Islamic Relations, asked for a meeting with a Vatican representative and urged more efforts at improving understanding between Muslims and Catholics.

 

"The proper response to the pope's inaccurate and divisive remarks is for Muslims and Catholics worldwide to increase dialogue and outreach efforts aimed at building better relations between Christianity and Islam," the group said.

 

But don't worry. I'm sure Accord is super pumped to bring peace and democracy to the Muslim world by killing as many Muslim's as he can.

Can some of you guys stop trying to drive this thread into some inane direction? Let your personal issues with posters go.

He just posted an article dealing with a hot topic in the news. Your last statement was pretty much unneeded and hypocritical of you.

No, he didnt just post an article. He highlighted certain parts of the article that he wanted emphasized. He also titled the thread as Muslims compare Pope to Hitler when in reality, one person compared the Pope to Hitler. You call that just posting a hot topic in the news? You've gotten on FutureGM's case about this countless times. Why is it ok now?

 

You don't think he got what he wanted? People on this thread have already started talking about Islam and Judaism. How was that even relevant to what the Pope did? Only because accord chose to make it about one person's statement.

 

The fact is, the reaction of the Muslim world was variant and nuanced. That's terrible for people who think in the black and white. That point can't be ignored when people love stereotyping.

 

 

And so this is another board that goes stupid.........

I think the Muslims are absured in comparing Pope Benedict to Hitler and etc

 

Again, only one person did:

 

Kapusuz added. "He is going down in history in the same category as leaders such as Hitler and Mussolini."

 

Did some of you guys not read the article and just take accord's word at face value?

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Good thing you didn't highlight other parts when you accuse billions of people of thinking as a group and wanting to blow people up:

 

In the United States, a Muslim group, the Council for American-Islamic Relations, asked for a meeting with a Vatican representative and urged more efforts at improving understanding between Muslims and Catholics.

 

"The proper response to the pope's inaccurate and divisive remarks is for Muslims and Catholics worldwide to increase dialogue and outreach efforts aimed at building better relations between Christianity and Islam," the group said.

 

But don't worry. I'm sure Accord is super pumped to bring peace and democracy to the Muslim world by killing as many Muslim's as he can.

Can some of you guys stop trying to drive this thread into some inane direction? Let your personal issues with posters go.

He just posted an article dealing with a hot topic in the news. Your last statement was pretty much unneeded and hypocritical of you.

No, he didnt just post an article. He highlighted certain parts of the article that he wanted emphasized. He also titled the thread as Muslims compare Pope to Hitler when in reality, one person compared the Pope to Hitler. You call that just posting a hot topic in the news? You've gotten on FutureGM's case about this countless times. Why is it ok now?

 

You don't think he got what he wanted? People on this thread have already started talking about Islam and Judaism. How was that even relevant to what the Pope did? Only because accord chose to make it about one person's statement.

 

The fact is, the reaction of the Muslim world was variant and nuanced. That's terrible for people who think in the black and white. That point can't be ignored when people love stereotyping.

I have no problem with people calling people out, just don't act high and mighty in other threads when you do the exact same thing.

 

He isn't the only one to use this sortof title to describe this article:

 

http://news.google.com/news?ie=UTF-8&o...tnG=Search+News

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Muslims = Turkey's governing party official compares Pope

Canada.com

 

I guess that means when Bush says something he speaks for all Americans. Either way the Pope is sorry.

 

 

Pope sorry his speech offended Muslims

 

 

September 17, 2006

Page 1 of 2 | Single page

 

Pope Benedict told Muslims yesterday he was sorry they had found his speech on Islam offensive, expressing his respect for their faith and hoping they would understand the ``true sense'' of his words.

 

``The Holy Father is very sorry that some passages of his speech may have sounded offensive to the sensibilities of Muslim believers,'' Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone said in a statement.

 

The statement came amid mounting anger from Muslims over remarks by the Pope in a speech in his native Germany on Tuesday that was seen as critical of their faith. Calls for him to apologise had spread beyond the Islamic world.

 

In that speech, the Pope appeared to endorse a Christian view, contested by most Muslims, that the early Muslims spread their religion by violence.

 

Islamic fury erupted on Thursday and has cast doubt on a visit the Pope plans to Turkey in November.

 

But the Vatican statement said: ``Confirming his respect and esteem for those who profess the Islamic faith, he (the Pope) hopes they will be helped to understand his words in their true sense.''

 

Before the statement, the tide of Muslim criticism of the Roman Catholic leader swelled yesterday.

 

Yemen's president became the first head of state publicly to denounce him and threatened to review ties with the Vatican unless he apologised. Ali Abdullah Saleh, campaigning for re-election, told voters at a rally Benedict had wronged Islam.

 

Two churches - neither of them Catholic - were fire-bombed in the West Bank, although no one was hurt.

 

But Chancellor Angela Merkel and other German politicians defended his comments, saying he had been misunderstood.

 

``It was an invitation to dialogue between religions, she told the mass-circulation Bild newspaper in an interview. ``What Benedict XVI emphasised was a decisive and uncompromising renunciation of all forms of violence in the name of religion.''

 

``He should apologise to Muslims,'' the president of the German Council of Muslims, Ayyub Axel Koehler, told the Neue Presse newspaper. ``That would be a contribution towards unwinding the tension and creating clarity.''

 

In the first reaction from a Christian leader, the head of Egypt's Coptic Orthodox Church has joined a growing band of Muslim leaders to denounce Pope Benedict's comments.

 

They were "against the teachings of Christ", he said.

 

Coptic Pope Shenouda III told the pro-Government Al-Ahram newspaper that he didn't hear the Catholic Pope's exact words, but said "any remarks that offend Islam and Muslims are against the teachings of Christ".

 

"Christianity and Christ's teachings instruct us not to hurt others, either in their convictions or their ideas, or any of their symbols - religious symbols," he was quoted as saying.

 

Egypt's Copts, whose liturgy follows Eastern Orthodox Christian traditions rather than the Vatican, account for an estimated 10 per cent of Egypt's 79 million people.

 

Pope Benedict made his remarks on Islam in a speech in which he quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th-century Byzantine Christian emperor Manuel Paleologos II and an educated Persian on the truths of Christianity and Islam.

 

"The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the Pope said.

 

"He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.' "

 

Clearly aware of the delicacy of the issue, the Pope added "I quote" twice before pronouncing the phrases on Islam and he described them as "brusque", while neither agreeing with nor repudiating them.

 

Afghanistan's Taliban yesterday demanded the Pope apologise.

 

"We strongly condemn it," Mohammad Hanif, who regularly speaks to the media on behalf of the extremist insurgent group, said.

 

The remarks, he said, were "obviously part of a crusader war that the West, chiefly America and [President George] Bush, is waging against Islam and Muslims".

 

A hardline cleric linked to Somalia's powerful Islamist movement called for Muslims to ``hunt down'' and kill Pope Benedict for his controversial comments.

 

Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin urged Muslims to find the pontiff and punish him for insulting the Prophet Mohammed and Allah in a speech that he said was as offensive as author Salman Rushdie's novel The Satanic Verses.

 

``We urge you Muslims wherever you are to hunt down the Pope for his barbaric statements as you have pursued Salman Rushdie, the enemy of Allah who offended our religion,'' he said in Friday evening prayers.

 

``Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim,'' Malin, a prominent cleric in the Somali capital, told worshippers at a mosque in southern Mogadishu.

 

``We call on all Islamic Communities across the world to take revenge on the baseless critic called the pope,'' he said.

 

Indian Muslim leaders and political parties have demanded an apology. The chief cleric of the 17th-century Jama Masjid mosque in New Delhi said the comments were a deliberate attempt to hurt the feelings of Muslims worldwide. "He should apologise to the Muslims of the world," Syed Ahmed Bukhari said on Friday.

Source: The Sun-Herald

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Muslim's who are getting upset at this are definitely overreacting. Maybe it's a testiment as to how much weight they see the Pope carrying as compared to their central religious leadership who have obviously said a lot of stupid things. But the papacy of all people shouldnt be critisizing anyone of being inhumane.

Forget the papacy criticizing people of being inhumane, he was speaking of facts that have been proven by both anecdotal evidence and historical evidence. Why are "muslim leaders" always offended when something bad is said that has basis in historical fact!?! Especially regarding the fact that Muhammed was an ruthless conqueror. I just don't get it.

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Manuel II Paleologos' attacks on Mohammed were not merely criticisms of his methods. They were criticism's of the religion he created. These were comments made well after many of the crusades that happend between both religions, not when Islam was first rising. They were made when both sides had acted brutally and inhumane. So it became a theological moral supremecy debate at the time. Your claim that what Paleologos said was historical fact is also not true. Because the emporer wasnt just stating facts. He was having theological debate. And he took a position that was not right at all. Or at least the person who actually translated that text seems to think so.

 

As far as the reaction of some Muslim leaders, they are overreacting by taking the bad quote out of context that it was meant to be in. But you're absolutely wrong if you think what he quoted was accurate in any way whatsoever.

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Manuel II Paleologos' attacks on Mohammed were not merely criticisms of his methods. They were criticism's of the religion he created. These were comments made well after many of the crusades that happend between both religions, not when Islam was first rising. They were made when both sides had acted brutally and inhumane. So it became a theological moral supremecy debate at the time. Your claim that what Paleologos said was historical fact is also not true. Because the emporer wasnt just stating facts. He was having theological debate. And he took a position that was not right at all. Or at least the person who actually translated that text seems to think so.

 

As far as the reaction of some Muslim leaders, they are overreacting by taking the bad quote out of context that it was meant to be in. But you're absolutely wrong if you think what he quoted was accurate in any way whatsoever.

 

You're putting words into my mouth. I never said Manuel II Paleologos' criticisms of Islam were true, I am stating the fact that the historical figure of Muhammed is most definetly one of the most ruthless and merciless conquerors the world has ever seen. :thumbup

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The historical figure of Muhammed was a ruthless conqueror. I see nothing wrong with the quote.

 

yeah...im sure the hebrews/jews never did any ruthless conquering of their own... :whistle

 

It is a matter of historical record that ancient Hebrews were conquering warrior-philosophers when they claimed the holy land for themselves thousands of years ago. The distinction is, Jews are neither offended nor ashamed of the biblical past.

as if to say what? christians and muslims should be ashamed of their ancient past?

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as if to say what? christians and muslims should be ashamed of their ancient past?

 

 

No, but it appears that some Muslims are.

im ashamed that george bush is our president...doesnt mean im ashamed of the christian faith because of right wing idiot that runs it(yeah...im saying bush runs the christian faith...A. much more power than the pope B. talk to your average christian that knows zero about history and they will tell you bush is the greatest pres since lincoln)

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Manuel II Paleologos' attacks on Mohammed were not merely criticisms of his methods. They were criticism's of the religion he created. These were comments made well after many of the crusades that happend between both religions, not when Islam was first rising. They were made when both sides had acted brutally and inhumane. So it became a theological moral supremecy debate at the time. Your claim that what Paleologos said was historical fact is also not true. Because the emporer wasnt just stating facts. He was having theological debate. And he took a position that was not right at all. Or at least the person who actually translated that text seems to think so.

 

As far as the reaction of some Muslim leaders, they are overreacting by taking the bad quote out of context that it was meant to be in. But you're absolutely wrong if you think what he quoted was accurate in any way whatsoever.

 

You're putting words into my mouth. I never said Manuel II Paleologos' criticisms of Islam were true, I am stating the fact that the historical figure of Muhammed is most definetly one of the most ruthless and merciless conquerors the world has ever seen. :thumbup

 

What an ignorant statement. I would think you would know better. One of the most ruthless and merciless conquerors of all time? Based on what? The massive subjectivity of beinfestforprez? You have a scale back in your house? You write a book on the topic? Of the hundreds of thousands of conquerors of all time, you put him up there...nice.

 

And you do realize that the controversy is stemming from the Pope using a quote verbatim of Paleologos in which he criticises the faith itself right? There are thousands of history books detailing Muhammed's terrible acts. You don't see Muslims burning them. It's the use of that quote that has set people off.

 

In fact Id say the Pope himself knew why that was a bad quote because he emphasized that he was just quoting someone. He could have easily been critical of the idea of forced conversion with a sword without referring to that quote. The German academic who translated the quote echoed that thought.

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The Pope shouldn't apologize, he needs to quit being such a p***y. He's probably not truly sorry for what he said and he believes it 100%, he just doesn't want muslims around the globe to go apeshit like they did over the cartoon of muhammad.

 

yeah...but do you think christians would go ape sh*t over a dumb cartoon of jesus...damn right they would...basically...when it comes to religion...dont trash on other's faith...it will get you in more trouble than you can handle in a world where people(of any religion) will kill you just because it crossed their mind

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The Pope shouldn't apologize, he needs to quit being such a p***y. He's probably not truly sorry for what he said and he believes it 100%, he just doesn't want muslims around the globe to go apeshit like they did over the cartoon of muhammad.

 

yeah...but do you think christians would go ape sh*t over a dumb cartoon of jesus...damn right they would...basically...when it comes to religion...dont trash on other's faith...it will get you in more trouble than you can handle in a world where people(of any religion) will kill you just because it crossed their mind Dumb cartoons are drawn of Jesus all the time. I don't see Christians rioting and killing people and storming embassies.

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