I have a question regarding this Daisuke Matsuzaka guy and how good he really will be in the majors. Isnt' there alot of risk shelling out the kind of money this guy is demanding? Look at alot of the pitchers who have come to the majors and after a year or 2 were nothing compared to what they were when they were pitching in Asia. Does this guy really deserve top of the line money when he hasn't proven himself in the majors?

 

Once MLB hitters adjust to this guys style, doesn't this guy just turn into an ordinary pitcher? Or am I just not educated enough on Daisuke? Sorry for sounding ignorant but I was just reading how much money this guy is going to demand and it seems obsurd.

 

Short answer, maybe. Long answer, you're very very wrong.

 

Pitching's a big gamble, give me 5 "can't miss prospects" and I'll give you one good pitcher. However, Matsuzaka is an established talent from a league that has produced world class talent. He's not "projectable" he is what he is, and what he is is quite good to amazing.

 

I don't recall where I read this, but some stat head has developed a "comparable value" formula for people in the Japanese league and how it'd translate to MLB. Matsuzaka's line for MLB based on his performance last season was something like 16-9 3.15 ERA and about an 8.5 K/9.

 

In a league where free agent quality pitching is scarce, that kind of line is money in the bank.

Hey thanks for taking the time to educate me a bit. So basically what you are saying is this is one of the best pitchers to come out of Japan ever? If that is the case I guess there is no risk involved. I guess I also didn't understand how the posting of a pitcher works. So he basically needs to be bid on AND then signed to a contract? So any team who needs his services would need to bid 30 mill and the sign a long term deal? Daaaaamn if so.

 

Thanks again for explaining it to me. :thumbup

 

Posting's buying the right to negotiate.

 

Teams submit a blind one time only bid to the commissioner's office. The commissioner's office then notifies the posting team of the highest bid without informing them of the team. I believe the posting team then has the right to accept the bid or take the posted player back.

 

After that, the player and the highest bidding team structure a contract. I'm not quite sure what happens if negotiations break down between team and player though, but then again, if you're just bidding 8 figures to negotiate with the guy, odds are you're not letting him get away.

 

It's highly likely that when all's said and done, Matsuzaka will have cost his signing team around $80-$90 million.

Thanks Swift. Your the man. :thumbup

Just found this and didn't want to open a whole new post... another video of the Gyroball in action... Kid named Joey Niezer throws it... vid is only 2 seconds long, nonetheless amazing...

The movement is quite something on that pitch, but given the quality, I can't see the seams so it looks like a ++ power-curve/slider. The alleged gyro-ball is meant to be thrown at a higher velocity than your average breaking pitch and it's meant to bottom out completely rather than having huge prior-to the plate movement.

 

Bobby Valentine, on Mike and the Mad Dog, described it as a very good changeup, but then denied ever seeing Matsuzaka throw one...and I'd say he's a pretty reliable source.

I don't remember exactly where I found it... but Matsuzaka is quoted as saying "He wants to learn to throw the Gyroball" if I recall this was during/slightly before the WBC... however, if you look up Joey Niezer, you may come across the article, because I remember they referenced him in it... So Valentine may be right saying he never saw Matsuzaka throw it, because he learned it recently/is learning it...

 

Also, the diagram in the article on page 1 of this thread shows the movement to be pretty right on with what I'm seeing in the video...

Also, the diagram in the article on page 1 of this thread shows the movement to be pretty right on with what I'm seeing in the video...

 

Not exactly, the PDF describes the pitch that I thought of as the gyro-ball:

 

"Starts flat, then takes a drastic dive away from (right-handed) batter. Thrown a few mph slower than the four-seam fastball."

 

That pitch has huge break and tons of prior to the plate movement. To be honest, that pitch looks like the ultimate backdoor slider.

Hmm... I dunno... I guess I'm not following the ball really well in the video then... because I just see diving away... he just starts it high and outside, so that it comes back towards the middle... regardless, this is an awesome pitch, thrown by a high schooler no less...

Also, the diagram in the article on page 1 of this thread shows the movement to be pretty right on with what I'm seeing in the video...

 

Not exactly, the PDF describes the pitch that I thought of as the gyro-ball:

 

"Starts flat, then takes a drastic dive away from (right-handed) batter. Thrown a few mph slower than the four-seam fastball."

 

That pitch has huge break and tons of prior to the plate movement. To be honest, that pitch looks like the ultimate backdoor slider.

Good assessment. :thumbup

Very cool.

Am bumping the thread due to SI.com's special on the gyroball, from what I can tell and the article below (which is a really good read) there is no way that Matsuzaka throws the pitch, as it requires a very sidearm delivery to throw, coming out of the front of the hand with the palm facing home and a clockwise spin, (like an off break in cricket). I still believe that you can throw a version of the gyroball (from the pdf on the first page), but the way it is described with the ball rotating counter-clockwise looking from the pitchers' mound is not going to get the required rpm on the ball (the tightness of the spin), and would have severley reduced velocity as it is effectively coming out of the side/back of the hand (like a leg break in cricket).

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...uzaka.gyroball/

I thought this myth was debunked months ago?

It was, and the date of the article states that but I thought it was just an interesting read, and gives a lot of information on the pitch. Perhaps I should have stated that above, but as I said, I only ran across it as SI was giving a special on it.