Wow, Cape! I didn't know you were a teacher!

 

I am a teacher and have been in Miami-Dade County for the past 25 years. And I'm here to tell the truth. Principals do not hire or fire or make most school policies. The District/School Board does. Principals really are middle management. They carry out the policies and procedures their supervisors give them. They administer it at the school level but it all begins at the District/School level. Some of the policies are already in place by the State of Florida, where my licensure comes from.

 

To say principals do not hire new teachers for their schools is an outright fallacy. Principals also choose to not renew contracts of teachers for a variety of reasons including non-performance.

 

Principals INTERVIEW candidates who have 1) passed the state licensure procedures 2) meet the requirements for teaching in their particular county and 3) are of the correct race/ethnic background needed to adhere to Brown vs. The Board of Education. All persons who are INTERVIEWED by the principal are chosen from the pool sent to them by the District. Do you really think principals pick people off the streets? Then, the District has to approve of the recommendation. That's all a principal does is recommend for employment, not hire them. Nor do they fire them. Think before you speak, Cape. I've been in this game a long time and have been a Union Representative for the past 23 years.

 

The difference between teachers comfortable at a school or uncomfortable at a school is the Principal. I have seen this first-hand in schools in several districts throughout Florida.

 

Principals are certainly the barometer at a school but teachers wield more power than they know. I was personally at 2 different schools where we took agreesive actions to get the principal out. And we succeeded both times.

 

A good principal that advocates for the students, supports his teachers, and takes out any bad apples (whether they be students or teachers) is the essential building block to a good school.

 

Once a teacher the status of Professional Service Contract, there are many, many steps principals, Region Directors and even the School Board/Superintendent need to go through in order to 'take out a bad apple' as you call it. I'm not advocating bad teachers stay in the system but short of blatent murder and/or sexual misconduct, assault & battery, the process for removing a teacher from their position takes months, up to 2 years. Because after the District is done with their investigation, then the State does one of their own. Unfortunately, the usual case is just to pass on the person to another school or school setting.That is not the fault of the principal or the school. It's a major flaw in management procedures. And one that has been going on for as long as I can remember.

 

So while they may be "middle management" to you, they are still the ones that create the spending plan for your school and they make the big choices when it comes to who stays and who goes.

 

Sorry to have to quote yourself right back to you but: that is an outright fallacy. Yes, schools develop their budgets BASED ON DISTRICT guidelines. Principals just don't decide everything they spend their money on. Every principal has a discretionary account (a meagar amount of money) which does NOT come from student funds. This is the only budgetary line item they alone control. Everything else must be approved at the Region and District levels. And if it isn't, the principal is forced to go back and re-work their budget until it falls within the constraints the district has set forth.

 

Downtown may control the thermostats, but the Principal DOES NOTcontrol who is in the classrooms.

I have witnessed first hand Principals wanting to hire someone they know is good and will be good for their school only to have the recommendation taken away from them to satisfy someone else's wishes. Or to have to hire off of the surplus list. The surplus list is a list of teachers (still being paid their regular salary) whose positions have been cut from other schools for one reason or another. The District's obligation is to clear the surplus list first, then hire from the pool of candidates.

 

I appreciate you making your comments but please, don't try to pass them off as the truth. As I stated before, I'm a 25 year veteran of the system you profess to know so much about. Take a step back and listen to someone whose been there longer than you ever were.

 

 

For Night Phantom, I apologize for misinterpreting your meaning. But the question still begs- how do you reward teachers? I don't have a homeroom class nor do I teach a core subject. Am I to be left out of the party? And who is to say what a 'good' teacher is?

These questions have been around for a long time and still, our State Legislature has not come up with an acceptable plan to reward teachers - read all those Merit Pay articles the Herald has published.

It's a slippery slope you're on once you start rewarding 'good' teachers......

That "slippery slope" is called capitalism. And who said that core teachers were the only good ones?

 

Teacher compensation can factor in many things: overall student performance, student's performance on tests such as the SAT, college acceptance rates, student knowledge, etc.

Classroom evaluations.

That "slippery slope" is called capitalism. And who said that core teachers were the only good ones?

 

Teacher compensation can factor in many things: overall student performance, student's performance on tests such as the SAT, college acceptance rates, student knowledge, etc.

 

Adjusted for circumstances? Certainly a teacher whose students are wealthy, have SAT prep courses, have private tutors, and whose parents are always behind them should not be compensated for said factors, right? Otherwise, why would any teacher agree to work in a bad school with bad students?

 

I agree with Fox. We really need to entice our best and brightest to become teachers. In Chicago, the city schools have a very difficult time keeping their best teachers because the wealthy north shore suburbs poach them. But raising teachers salary is often dismissed as once again "throwing money at the problem." So how do we do it otherwise?

Don't raise salaries across the board, that does nothing and I would agree that is throwing money at the problem.

 

If Teacher A is consistently known as one of the best teachers in her subject, school, district, etc. and Teacher B skates by and does the bare minimum to meet benchmarks, etc. and both are paid exactly the same, how does that make sense? Why should Teacher A be motivated to continue to do as good a job as he or she can when both teacher A and B have the same job security and pay scale?

 

Treat it like any other company - reward the best.

Principals INTERVIEW candidates who have 1) passed the state licensure procedures 2) meet the requirements for teaching in their particular county and 3) are of the correct race/ethnic background needed to adhere to Brown vs. The Board of Education. All persons who are INTERVIEWED by the principal are chosen from the pool sent to them by the District. Do you really think principals pick people off the streets? Then, the District has to approve of the recommendation. That's all a principal does is recommend for employment, not hire them. Nor do they fire them. Think before you speak, Cape. I've been in this game a long time and have been a Union Representative for the past 23 years.

Again, Principals hold the hiring power. The district has confirmation of the recommendation because it is adding a salary after all, but the Principal is still the big woman/man in that teacher getting in. Don't try to pass rank, it doesn't change any part of my statement that Principals hold most of the power in a school. BTW, no one said a Principal could hire someone off the street. We all know educators are immensely educated, talented, and must be checked for security. They must also surrender their finger prints for filing in Florida.

 

Principals are certainly the barometer at a school but teachers wield more power than they know. I was personally at 2 different schools where we took agreesive actions to get the principal out. And we succeeded both times.

Teachers do hold alot of power than they know, esp. the older teachers who have seniority even greater than Principals at times in some schools. But the Principals continue to set discipline and spending policy for individual schools and those are the 2 biggest factors in a school IMHO. They follow the district's parameters and budgets, but principals make most of the calls in their schools. They choose where to focus the school's energy and they can make or break a teacher's credibility when trying to control behavioral issues. My alma mater high school had a coup d'etat between my Junior and Senior years that saw our principal go. We got a new principal that was younger than almost every teacher at the school and he did a very good job. But he was also agressive in cutting some teachers loose of responsibilities including dismissal from their assignment to the school. Sure they can move to another school in the district, but then they have the annual probation with a new principal breathing down their necks.

 

Once a teacher the status of Professional Service Contract, there are many, many steps principals, Region Directors and even the School Board/Superintendent need to go through in order to 'take out a bad apple' as you call it. I'm not advocating bad teachers stay in the system but short of blatent murder and/or sexual misconduct, assault & battery, the process for removing a teacher from their position takes months, up to 2 years. Because after the District is done with their investigation, then the State does one of their own. Unfortunately, the usual case is just to pass on the person to another school or school setting.That is not the fault of the principal or the school. It's a major flaw in management procedures. And one that has been going on for as long as I can remember.

Contracts expire, individuals are placed on surplus, and assignments can be changed. I had a teacher (she wasn't bad) placed on surplus and eventually she moved to the next county to be closer to home and avoid being dropped from the school because she was surplus. The principal who was forced out got several detractors on surplus (these were veteran teachers) and those teachers took assignments at the new high school on the southside. Teachers, principals, regional directors, curriculum councils, and district members all play a game of politics.

 

Sorry to have to quote yourself right back to you but: that is an outright fallacy. Yes, schools develop their budgets BASED ON DISTRICT guidelines. Principals just don't decide everything they spend their money on. Every principal has a discretionary account (a meagar amount of money) which does NOT come from student funds. This is the only budgetary line item they alone control. Everything else must be approved at the Region and District levels. And if it isn't, the principal is forced to go back and re-work their budget until it falls within the constraints the district has set forth.

Principals' discretionary spending determines alot of a school's focus. Our school's band, arts, TV production, law program, and writing programs all got infusions from this line on a rotational basis. My senior year, the principal decided to practically replace our TV studio in order to keep us ahead of the new southside school. Dade & Broward, like most counties is hard boundary with a small amount of chance for reassignment as a student, but I have done it (Broward) and the principals made the call with the regional signing off so the budgets could be adjusted properly for the student moving schools but not addresses. In Lee County, where I went to high school, the stakes are even higher because the schools compete for students. You are given a list of schools and you rank them from best to worst for you to attend and they attempt to get you to the highest on the list possible. I got into my first choice, but before the new school opened and eased us...we had a waiting list for both student and teacher slots. This is a public school! Why? Because our principal at the time was considered excellent, kept a tight ship, spent well, and most teachers had been with him since Day 1 at the school. Not a small school either.

 

I have witnessed first hand Principals wanting to hire someone they know is good and will be good for their school only to have the recommendation taken away from them to satisfy someone else's wishes. Or to have to hire off of the surplus list. The surplus list is a list of teachers (still being paid their regular salary) whose positions have been cut from other schools for one reason or another. The District's obligation is to clear the surplus list first, then hire from the pool of candidates.

 

I appreciate you making your comments but please, don't try to pass them off as the truth. As I stated before, I'm a 25 year veteran of the system you profess to know so much about. Take a step back and listen to someone whose been there longer than you ever were.

Surplus is a union-won assurance of security for teachers on the list, but politics is politics even and especially in the schools. Principals still hold the largest chip in the entire game when it comes to getting their schools working and comfortable for students and teachers. Again, trying to pass rank does nothing. I am a product of the system you strive to care for, I have been in schools of every kind with teachers of every kind and there is a difference between a well-run machine and a mess where the inmates run the asylum.

 

To say the State or District makes all the difference in success is just wrong. Teachers, Administrators, students......even Janitorial staff who work hard to clean and maintain the building and the safety of those inside......they all make a winning school or a failing. Front lines fight wars, not the rear. The bigwigs are the rear.

 

Classroom evaluations.

Most Florida schools do that.

 

Lee County schools even have a scoring system.

Broward County schools take student input.

I passed the Math with flying colors and passed the reading by 1 point.

BTW, Yenta.......I wanna get certified to teach in Florida

 

I passed the Math with flying colors and passed the reading by 1 point.

I find FCAT really helps alot of people with Credit by Examination (if they are in middle school going to high school), Advanced Placement Exams, and SAT.

 

It helped me alot because I had them really close to one another and was able to use FCAT/AP/SAT study sessions and skills learned for the tests to help me with the others.

 

So keep working on that reading!

i don't completely trust school boards, as some of them can be really corrupt. the san diego school board got my old school shut down like a year after i graduated for some school reform plan. i think community input, and that means parents getting involved in the child's education will be a major factor in getting our schools back in shape, as right now, many parents just drop their kids to school and don't really care, as they think it's good just because of where they live. my parents were very involved in my education, and i turned out better because of it. i don't think any reform plan will mean much unless the community is in them.

i don't completely trust school boards, as some of them can be really corrupt. the san diego school board got my old school shut down like a year after i graduated for some school reform plan. i think community input, and that means parents getting involved in the child's education will be a major factor in getting our schools back in shape, as right now, many parents just drop their kids to school and don't really care, as they think it's good just because of where they live. my parents were very involved in my education, and i turned out better because of it. i don't think any reform plan will mean much unless the community is in them.

Yup, schools that have a "community" that backs them do much better than those who do not. BTW, some of the best school communities are in the poorest of areas.

 

I think a principal is the key to getting everything together that a school needs. They get the focus where it needs to be from everyone. My alma mater sends out newsletters to parents by mail, has a phone-in system for absences and grades 24/7, has the ability to check gradebooks and assignments online, and requires parents to answer to questions on attendance, academics, and behavior.

 

Our teachers have been known to make housecalls as well. No matter the age, if a kid knows the parents are there, it helps get the job done.

 

My brother fears a phone call from any school board line or from a teacher's cell. He works hard to prevent those.

 

Parents are working hard, but the tools are there so they can be involved.

 

Most charter and private schools require parents to do community service at the school. It helps, even if 5 hours a year.

Classroom evaluations.

 

 

Every District has annual classroom evaluations. In Miami-Dade County, the evaluatory tool used is called PACES. What the tool is depends largely on the Union which negotiates it. But these evaluations are made part of the teacher's permanent record and passed along to the State of Florida.

Just to back up what Yenta said about FDOE certification of teachers: http://www.fldoe.org/edcert/

 

Also, a copy of Florida Principal Competencies: http://coe.fgcu.edu/faculty/valesky/FLORID...OMPETENCIES.htm

 

Most districts put "mastery" of Florida Principal Competencies into the job descriptions of principals. Plus, I know mine (Lee County, FL) also put in there "Implements and administers negotiated employee contracts at the school site" along with Yenta's said "Recruits, interviews, and recommends qualified personnel for employment that reflect

racial and ethnic diversity" line. (http://leeschools.net/dept/ps/jobdesc/pdf/admin/P-601.pdf)

 

I understand the point Yenta makes about politics and how the system has developed through unions winning fights with the Boards, but some districts do better than others because they give more power to the Principals. I know for sure in my school we have had some teachers ink their deals at the school. We have also seen teachers leave after being surplused or not renewed at our school. The district acts as a clearinghouse (I was there just this week and ran into a surplused teacher from MHS) and I know they send the principals a short list of candidates....but human resources does that based on applications and data. If politics comes to play, that is not the intention of the system.