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and how reliable is Sergio Mitre?

 

 

yeah exactly

 

he might be pitching good this year but its not his track record and besides, he is always nagging, has missed some starts, has gone to the DL ... but he is still the guy you trust because every 5th day he is out there pitching his butt off right? ... oh wait he just missed his last start and the next one has been pushed back again

 

yeah thats reliable

 

More so than Dontrelle.

 

There has yet to be a start Mitre turned in where 4 runs would not have at least produced a tie based on HIS performance.

 

Dontrelle's had his ass bailed out by the offense 5 or 6 times, and Mitre's been let down 5 or 6 times.

 

As for past track record, Dontrelle's shown himself to be no better than a .500 pitcher if we're dismissing career years as aberrations.

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he is still the best we have

 

 

maybe not on talent (debatable) but certainly on every other aspect of the game and he is there by far, regardless of how bad he is pitching this year. Its not like anybody is surpasing him

 

And, again, that goes back to my main point of no matter how good he looks by comparison, that's it, it's just comparison.

 

The second you start stacking him up against other team's pitching, you realize what kind of hole we're in.

 

so what do you throw out there to other teams pitching?

 

cos we really dont have much ...

 

Um...Sergio Mitre.

 

In an ideal world Mitre develops into a great #1, and Josh Johnson a great #2. That way Willis could be the best #3 in the league. Maybe willis doesnt have lights out stuff, but he is still a pretty good pitcher. Johnson, Nolasco, Sanchez are all on the DL. Mitre just skipped his last start. Willis is out there very game throwing 7 innings. While his era is not sub 3, he is still playing pretty well. If the marlins trade him they will become a worse team.

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but how many starts has Mitre missed? ... if you consider yourself man enough to throw in last year than even better :thumbup (and please dont take this offensibly im only saying ok?)

 

I understand the argument of trading Dontrelle but until we have a horse or two in the starting rotation than trading him would be downright stupid

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and how reliable is Sergio Mitre?

 

 

yeah exactly

 

he might be pitching good this year but its not his track record and besides, he is always nagging, has missed some starts, has gone to the DL ... but he is still the guy you trust because every 5th day he is out there pitching his butt off right? ... oh wait he just missed his last start and the next one has been pushed back again

 

yeah thats reliable

 

More so than Dontrelle.

 

There has yet to be a start Mitre turned in where 4 runs would not have at least produced a tie based on HIS performance.

 

Dontrelle's had his ass bailed out by the offense 5 or 6 times, and Mitre's been let down 5 or 6 times.

 

As for past track record, Dontrelle's shown himself to be no better than a .500 pitcher if we're dismissing career years as aberrations.

 

Just to play devil's advocate...

 

How do we know that this season isnt an aberration for Mitre? Look at his era's the past few seasons, they all are over 5.3.

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he is still the best we have

 

 

maybe not on talent (debatable) but certainly on every other aspect of the game and he is there by far, regardless of how bad he is pitching this year. Its not like anybody is surpasing him

 

And, again, that goes back to my main point of no matter how good he looks by comparison, that's it, it's just comparison.

 

The second you start stacking him up against other team's pitching, you realize what kind of hole we're in.

 

so what do you throw out there to other teams pitching?

 

cos we really dont have much ...

 

Um...Sergio Mitre.

 

In an ideal world Mitre develops into a great #1, and Josh Johnson a great #2. That way Willis could be the best #3 in the league. Maybe willis doesnt have lights out stuff, but he is still a pretty good pitcher. Johnson, Nolasco, Sanchez are all on the DL. Mitre just skipped his last start. Willis is out there very game throwing 7 innings. While his era is not sub 3, he is still playing pretty well. If the marlins trade him they will become a worse team.

 

That's like 5 different thoughts all rolled into one.

 

1) Yes, you can be an ace and have injuries. Would anyone turn away Josh Beckett if he were offered to us? He's on a short list of about 5 guys right now for best pitcher in baseball and he's missed a start.

 

2) Yes, it would be great to slide Dontrelle down in the rotation.

 

3) It depends on your definition of "well." To me, WHIP is almost the end all be all stat for pitchers. A decent WHIP can dismiss a lot of other alarming numbers like a high ERA, high loss total, low K numbers, but Dontrelle's WHIP is among the worst in the National League...playing half his games in a pitcher's paradise. Again, if all you have to point to is durability, there's obviously a very real problem with ability.

 

4) JJ, Nolasco and Sanchez being on the DL does not make Dontrelle's job any tougher, or make his performance more understandable. Injuries are part of the game, and rotation players don't "protect" each other like batters in the order.

 

5) I don't see any way that you can make a case that the Marlins will be convincingly worse or better if Dontrelle's traded. If, tomorrow, the Mariners offered Felix Hernandez for Dontrelle, or the Yankees Phillip Hughes, are we a worse team? Absolutely not. There's no point in making a definitive statement about the team's new ability when facing only a hypothetical. I mean, in many's opinions, it's not like we couldn't very easily replace 2007 Dontrelle Willis' numbers with any of the myriad rubber armed retreads. Hell, Braden Looper's having roughly an equivalent year.

 

and how reliable is Sergio Mitre?

 

 

yeah exactly

 

he might be pitching good this year but its not his track record and besides, he is always nagging, has missed some starts, has gone to the DL ... but he is still the guy you trust because every 5th day he is out there pitching his butt off right? ... oh wait he just missed his last start and the next one has been pushed back again

 

yeah thats reliable

 

More so than Dontrelle.

 

There has yet to be a start Mitre turned in where 4 runs would not have at least produced a tie based on HIS performance.

 

Dontrelle's had his ass bailed out by the offense 5 or 6 times, and Mitre's been let down 5 or 6 times.

 

As for past track record, Dontrelle's shown himself to be no better than a .500 pitcher if we're dismissing career years as aberrations.

 

Just to play devil's advocate...

 

How do we know that this season isnt an aberration for Mitre? Look at his era's the past few seasons, they all are over 5.3.

 

Umm...I think that was my point.

 

It isn't what have you done for me before, it's what have you done for me lately...as in, Dontrelle, it's not 2005 anymore.

 

but how many starts has Mitre missed? ... if you consider yourself man enough to throw in last year than even better :thumbup (and please dont take this offensibly im only saying ok?)

 

I understand the argument of trading Dontrelle but until we have a horse or two in the starting rotation than trading him would be downright stupid

 

I really don't see what starts missed has to do with ANYTHING regarding who I'd rather see out there in a game we need to win.

 

If you're going to tell me that it means we have to replace him with a AAAA pitcher for 7-10 starts and Dontrelle's saving us from doing that...here's a newsflash, that AAAA pitcher might not be such a step down right now.

 

You're all over the place. Mitre's had an injury bug, Dontrelle hasn't. Has Dontrelle's production from 2006 forward been so stellar that we couldn't envision ourselves succeeding without a league average replacement for him? I'm not talking about sticking in the Jose Castillo's of the world, I'm talking about a guy like Jon Lieber, Adam Eaton, Kip Wells etc.

 

Yes, 2005 was probably the second best season ever for a Marlins starter (Brown's '96 being the other), but it's not 2005 anymore. Players have to produce to warrant both their salary, roster spot, and by extension opportunity cost.

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he is still the best we have

 

 

maybe not on talent (debatable) but certainly on every other aspect of the game and he is there by far, regardless of how bad he is pitching this year. Its not like anybody is surpasing him

 

And, again, that goes back to my main point of no matter how good he looks by comparison, that's it, it's just comparison.

 

The second you start stacking him up against other team's pitching, you realize what kind of hole we're in.

 

so what do you throw out there to other teams pitching?

 

cos we really dont have much ...

 

Um...Sergio Mitre.

 

 

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

Cmon now.

 

 

Let me hit this from another angle.........

 

Swift, what would YOU like to see the Marlins get for Dontrelle?

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And yet barring his ERA finishing over 5, I don't see his value plummeting. He's still the most affordable #2 pitcher in baseball and some teams would view him as a #1.

 

He goes 7 innings each night, he never gets hurt, he's a proven winner, and he's a pretty good guy too. He's the total package.

If the plan is to win this year or next year I don't think trading DTrain would be a good idea but with that said your statement in bold is silly. I don't know how you define a #2 but there's better pitchers than him that are more affordable.

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And yet barring his ERA finishing over 5, I don't see his value plummeting. He's still the most affordable #2 pitcher in baseball and some teams would view him as a #1.

 

He goes 7 innings each night, he never gets hurt, he's a proven winner, and he's a pretty good guy too. He's the total package.

If the plan is to win this year or next year I don't think trading DTrain would be a good idea but with that said your statement in bold is silly. I don't know how you define a #2 but there's better pitchers than him that are more affordable.

affordable meaning both salary wise and trade wise

 

but gimme some more affordable #2s

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And yet barring his ERA finishing over 5, I don't see his value plummeting. He's still the most affordable #2 pitcher in baseball and some teams would view him as a #1.

 

He goes 7 innings each night, he never gets hurt, he's a proven winner, and he's a pretty good guy too. He's the total package.

If the plan is to win this year or next year I don't think trading DTrain would be a good idea but with that said your statement in bold is silly. I don't know how you define a #2 but there's better pitchers than him that are more affordable.

affordable meaning both salary wise and trade wise

 

but gimme some more affordable #2s

I'll give you some guys that are better and more affordable money wise. I thought that's what you meant:

 

Lackey, Webb, Peavy & Verlander

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And yet barring his ERA finishing over 5, I don't see his value plummeting. He's still the most affordable #2 pitcher in baseball and some teams would view him as a #1.

 

He goes 7 innings each night, he never gets hurt, he's a proven winner, and he's a pretty good guy too. He's the total package.

If the plan is to win this year or next year I don't think trading DTrain would be a good idea but with that said your statement in bold is silly. I don't know how you define a #2 but there's better pitchers than him that are more affordable.

affordable meaning both salary wise and trade wise

 

but gimme some more affordable #2s

I'll give you some guys that are better and more affordable money wise. I thought that's what you meant:

 

Lackey, Webb, Peavy & Verlander

 

and im sure those teams are eager to trade them

 

:banghead

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And yet barring his ERA finishing over 5, I don't see his value plummeting. He's still the most affordable #2 pitcher in baseball and some teams would view him as a #1.

 

He goes 7 innings each night, he never gets hurt, he's a proven winner, and he's a pretty good guy too. He's the total package.

If the plan is to win this year or next year I don't think trading DTrain would be a good idea but with that said your statement in bold is silly. I don't know how you define a #2 but there's better pitchers than him that are more affordable.

affordable meaning both salary wise and trade wise

 

but gimme some more affordable #2s

I'll give you some guys that are better and more affordable money wise. I thought that's what you meant:

 

Lackey, Webb, Peavy & Verlander

 

and im sure those teams are eager to trade them

 

:banghead

 

Can you point out where it is that I said anything about their teams trading them?

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I agree with you T Swift. I think Josh Beckett is way better than Dontrelle Willis. Beckett has better stuff and he's a big game pitcher as he proved in the World Series when he dominated the Yanks.

 

 

 

Who said Dontrelle is better than Beckett?

 

 

I didnt.

 

 

I just pointed out that he's a helluva lot more durable than Josh.

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