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Das Texan
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One game was against Sheilds who has been great this year and today the D-Rays had an obvious edge in the starting pitching department.

 

I agree with much of what you said but I don't think Dontrelle pitched bad yesterday. It was "ball finds the hole nite at Dolphins Stadium". The guy eats up a ton of innings and don't get me started on the Beckett thing. Josh Beckett is the DL's best friend and Dontrelle is the opposite.

 

Sometimes on this board Dontrelle gets bashed like he's a bust. We have PLENTY of other potential busts in the works on this team and he isnt one of them. Again, he's no Roy Oswalt but Olsen is a head case, JJ, Anibal and Nolasco are on the DL and where's Dontrelle? Making all his starts and going deep in games like he always does.

 

And all I ever hear is......we should have traded him.

 

I'm with Ramp, unless we get offered everything plus the ranch, he stays put.

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One game was against Sheilds who has been great this year and today the D-Rays had an obvious edge in the starting pitching department.

 

I agree with much of what you said but I don't think Dontrelle pitched bad yesterday. It was "ball finds the hole nite at Dolphins Stadium". The guy eats up a ton of innings and don't get me started on the Beckett thing. Josh Beckett is the DL's best friend and Dontrelle is the opposite.

 

Sometimes on this board Dontrelle gets bashed like he's a bust. We have PLENTY of other potential busts in the works on this team and he isnt one of them. Again, he's no Roy Oswalt but Olsen is a head case, JJ, Anibal and Nolasco are on the DL and where's Dontrelle? Making all his starts and going deep in games like he always does.

 

And all I ever hear is......we should have traded him.

 

I'm with Ramp, unless we get offered everything plus the ranch, he stays put.

:Clap :Clap

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One game was against Sheilds who has been great this year and today the D-Rays had an obvious edge in the starting pitching department.

 

I agree with much of what you said but I don't think Dontrelle pitched bad yesterday. It was "ball finds the hole nite at Dolphins Stadium". The guy eats up a ton of innings and don't get me started on the Beckett thing. Josh Beckett is the DL's best friend and Dontrelle is the opposite.

 

Sometimes on this board Dontrelle gets bashed like he's a bust. We have PLENTY of other potential busts in the works on this team and he isnt one of them. Again, he's no Roy Oswalt but Olsen is a head case, JJ, Anibal and Nolasco are on the DL and where's Dontrelle? Making all his starts and going deep in games like he always does.

 

And all I ever hear is......we should have traded him.

 

I'm with Ramp, unless we get offered everything plus the ranch, he stays put.

 

He didnt pitch good neither.

 

And again, not simply about last night or the last week or anything.

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One game was against Sheilds who has been great this year and today the D-Rays had an obvious edge in the starting pitching department.

 

I agree with much of what you said but I don't think Dontrelle pitched bad yesterday. It was "ball finds the hole nite at Dolphins Stadium". The guy eats up a ton of innings and don't get me started on the Beckett thing. Josh Beckett is the DL's best friend and Dontrelle is the opposite.

 

Sometimes on this board Dontrelle gets bashed like he's a bust. We have PLENTY of other potential busts in the works on this team and he isnt one of them. Again, he's no Roy Oswalt but Olsen is a head case, JJ, Anibal and Nolasco are on the DL and where's Dontrelle? Making all his starts and going deep in games like he always does.

 

And all I ever hear is......we should have traded him.

 

I'm with Ramp, unless we get offered everything plus the ranch, he stays put.

:Clap :Clap

 

Just major league average defense behind a good pitcher makes him very good and a handful of runs to work with works wonders as well. When both are missing even the best pitcher is doomed to nights like Saturday.

 

There's no rhyme or reason to the blame game played here so I've come to the conclusion it's best to ignore it. You' think we were twenty games under .500 instead of two.

 

 

I'm in agreement with these posts above. :thumbup

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Ah, what the heck, I got nothin' better to do.....

 

1) We should have traded Dontrelle Willis last winter. He will never be an ace in this league. He is having a very mediocore year this year. He has allowed more hits than innings pitched and his bb/k ratio is bad. Shoot me. Maybe we can still get higher value than he is worth.

I too am disappointed in Dontrelle this year, and won't be that hurt if they trade him (this coming from a big Willis fan). Of course, you'd have the South Florida and national media crucifying the Marlins (again) for trading away a benchmark like Willis.

 

2) Joe Borchard needs to be sent to Asia.

Everytime I think this, he comes up with a big double or homer. He strikes out WAY too much, but that's not a concern for the coaches apparently. I wasn't a big fan of his coming into this season when others were clamoring for him to start. I think it'll be interesting to see if he's the odd man out when Ross comes back.

 

3) Jeremy Hermida. I know you have hit some nice homers this year. Where is the rest of your game? .211 BA. I know Ramp will just say to give him time. Should we wait until August until this piss poor overall perforamance becomes a concern?

I'm not concerned. He started off hot for a week and a half and he's been cool for a couple weeks. His approach at the plate makes me think he'll turn it around- hey, even Dan Uggla was hitting in the .220s for the first month or so.

 

4) Miguel Olivo. He had the year of his career last year and is following it up with a typical Miguel Olivo year. Maybe Spike was right last year.

I thought Olivo did a fine and serviceable job last year, and was expecting something similar this year. Unlike Hermida, his approach at the plate is terrible, and from what I've read, he has no plans of changing it. It's almost as if he makes up his mind to swing/not swing before the pitch is even delivered, regardless of where it goes. And I'm tired of seeing him plain drop balls that are thrown right to his mitt.

 

5) I still hate Beinfest for being not acquiring a center fielder last offseason.

That's my gut reaction too, but then, you have to wonder how many players he may have been in talks for, and perhaps the demands were too high. You never really know what goes on behind the scenes, but for some (not necessarily you Das) to blame him for not "trying" to get a CF is pretty ignorant. Not everything that happens behind the scenes gets reported in the press. But hey, if De Aza isn't injured and is playing like he did the first week of the season, this isn't even on the radar.

 

6) At least Hanley and Miguel are doing well offensively. Both of them need to get their heads out of their asses defensively.

They've both had lapses sure, but especially Miguel at times has really made some nice plays. Hanley seems to boot even the routine ones, which is scary. But I'm willing to wait it out a while longer.

 

7) Gotta love the sophomore slump of Scott Olsen and Taylor Tankerserly.

Hey, it happens. We're just lucky those are the only two that are so obviously being hit by it, and I don't know if I'd even come to that conclusion about Tank just yet.

 

8) The bullpen has done a spot on job by and large, espeically Gregg (a good move by Beinfest), Lindstrom and Owens (a good move by Beinfest).

Agreed. I never thought they'd be this good this early.

 

9) Sergio Mitre, great performances this year, too bad it seems he gets 1 run to work with or less every outing.

Yep. He's really impressed me- I thought he'd be a decent #4 or so starter, but had no idea he'd come up with the streak he has lately.

 

10) Carrying 13 pitchers in the National League is the absolute stupidest thing ever and whoever thought of that should have been fired on the spot. Then again its not like we know what a bench is anyway, so whats the point.

I think you answered you're own complaint with that one. Yeah, carrying 13 pitchers is a bit much, but our starters don't seem to be able to get far into the game, so we need all the bullpen we can get.

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One game was against Sheilds who has been great this year and today the D-Rays had an obvious edge in the starting pitching department.

 

I agree with much of what you said but I don't think Dontrelle pitched bad yesterday. It was "ball finds the hole nite at Dolphins Stadium". The guy eats up a ton of innings and don't get me started on the Beckett thing. Josh Beckett is the DL's best friend and Dontrelle is the opposite.

 

Sometimes on this board Dontrelle gets bashed like he's a bust. We have PLENTY of other potential busts in the works on this team and he isnt one of them. Again, he's no Roy Oswalt but Olsen is a head case, JJ, Anibal and Nolasco are on the DL and where's Dontrelle? Making all his starts and going deep in games like he always does.

 

And all I ever hear is......we should have traded him.

 

I'm with Ramp, unless we get offered everything plus the ranch, he stays put.

 

agreed

 

there is no other pitcher in the current staff that can go 7 on a consistent basis

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I'm just posting this for a comparison. You can interpret it however you want.

 

 

Matsuzaka 7 Wins 5 losses 4.52 era

Willis 7 Wins 5 losses 4.72 era

 

And I'll give you one to interpret however you want.

 

There are 53 "qualified" pitchers for the ERA race.

 

Of those 53, Dontrelle is #47 on the WHIP chart (1.57), ahead of only Kip Wells, Woody Williams, Doug Davis, Scott Olsen, Zach Duke and Adam Wainwright.

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I'm just posting this for a comparison. You can interpret it however you want.

 

 

Matsuzaka 7 Wins 5 losses 4.52 era

Willis 7 Wins 5 losses 4.72 era

 

And I'll give you one to interpret however you want.

 

There are 53 "qualified" pitchers for the ERA race.

 

Of those 53, Dontrelle is #47 on the WHIP chart (1.57), ahead of only Kip Wells, Woody Williams, Doug Davis, Scott Olsen, Zach Duke and Adam Wainwright.

 

and ill give you this

 

what other marlin pitcher has 7 wins?

 

how many of those "winners" have gone 7+ on just about every outing?

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I'm just posting this for a comparison. You can interpret it however you want.

 

 

Matsuzaka 7 Wins 5 losses 4.52 era

Willis 7 Wins 5 losses 4.72 era

 

And I'll give you one to interpret however you want.

 

There are 53 "qualified" pitchers for the ERA race.

 

Of those 53, Dontrelle is #47 on the WHIP chart (1.57), ahead of only Kip Wells, Woody Williams, Doug Davis, Scott Olsen, Zach Duke and Adam Wainwright.

 

and ill give you this

 

what other marlin pitcher has 7 wins?

 

how many of those "winners" have gone 7+ on just about every outing?

 

At the end of the season Dontrelle probably finishes with 15 wins and a low 4 era. Is that Santana, Beckett or Peavy stuff? No, but he is the best pitcher we have and is still a pretty good pitcher. Trading him for a position prospect really doesnt make us a better team, in fact it makes us worse.

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I'm just posting this for a comparison. You can interpret it however you want.

 

 

Matsuzaka 7 Wins 5 losses 4.52 era

Willis 7 Wins 5 losses 4.72 era

 

And I'll give you one to interpret however you want.

 

There are 53 "qualified" pitchers for the ERA race.

 

Of those 53, Dontrelle is #47 on the WHIP chart (1.57), ahead of only Kip Wells, Woody Williams, Doug Davis, Scott Olsen, Zach Duke and Adam Wainwright.

 

and ill give you this

 

what other marlin pitcher has 7 wins?

 

how many of those "winners" have gone 7+ on just about every outing?

 

:rolleyes:

 

Look, if all you have to point to is his durability, it says something really stark about his ability.

 

Just because no one else on our staff has surpassed Dontrelle's win total doesn't mean he isn't pitching like crap...it just means the rest of the staff is pitching like crap too.

 

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man may be king, but it still doesn't change the fact that he has only one eye.

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And yet barring his ERA finishing over 5, I don't see his value plummeting. He's still the most affordable #2 pitcher in baseball and some teams would view him as a #1.

 

He goes 7 innings each night, he never gets hurt, he's a proven winner, and he's a pretty good guy too. He's the total package.

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he is still the best we have

 

 

maybe not on talent (debatable) but certainly on every other aspect of the game and he is there by far, regardless of how bad he is pitching this year. Its not like anybody is surpasing him

 

And, again, that goes back to my main point of no matter how good he looks by comparison, that's it, it's just comparison.

 

The second you start stacking him up against other team's pitching, you realize what kind of hole we're in.

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And yet barring his ERA finishing over 5, I don't see his value plummeting. He's still the most affordable #2 pitcher in baseball and some teams would view him as a #1.

 

He goes 7 innings each night, he never gets hurt, he's a proven winner, and he's a pretty good guy too. He's the total package.

 

It's a buisness, he's one of the most marketable players in all of baseball. It won't add anything if he goes to another small market team, but you're kidding yourself if the only thing people are after is his stats. He goes to NY, we're going to be seeing his mug, a lot. And that's one of the main reasons I doubt that his stock has dropped much at all, atleast for those high market teams.

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My < 2 cents worth

 

1) We should have traded Dontrelle Willis last winter. He will never be an ace in this league. He is having a very mediocore year this year. He has allowed more hits than innings pitched and his bb/k ratio is bad. Shoot me. Maybe we can still get higher value than he is worth.

 

2) Joe Borchard needs to be sent to Asia.

 

3) Jeremy Hermida. I know you have hit some nice homers this year. Where is the rest of your game? .211 BA. I know Ramp will just say to give him time. Should we wait until August until this piss poor overall perforamance becomes a concern?

 

4) Miguel Olivo. He had the year of his career last year and is following it up with a typical Miguel Olivo year. Maybe Spike was right last year.

 

5) I still hate Beinfest for being not acquiring a center fielder last offseason.

 

6) At least Hanley and Miguel are doing well offensively. Both of them need to get their heads out of their asses defensively.

 

7) Gotta love the sophomore slump of Scott Olsen and Taylor Tankerserly.

 

8) The bullpen has done a spot on job by and large, espeically Gregg (a good move by Beinfest), Lindstrom and Owens (a good move by Beinfest).

 

9) Sergio Mitre, great performances this year, too bad it seems he gets 1 run to work with or less every outing.

 

10) Carrying 13 pitchers in the National League is the absolute stupidest thing ever and whoever thought of that should have been fired on the spot. Then again its not like we know what a bench is anyway, so whats the point.

 

11) Aaron Boone has done a fine job for us. Why he continualy bats 8th is beyond me.

 

12) Reggie still sucks.

 

 

1. Ok MAYBE not ACE. Maybe a SOLID pitcher in the lineup that we can always count on to put out a good to excelent effort day in day out. If you are ever going to build a team you can't trade players like that without getting a LOT. No way I trade him now.

 

2. Asia is a bit much until we get some bench players back from the DL. Funny comment though. :)

 

3. Put me along with the others in the wait and see camp. I am really impressed with how he came off the DL this year. The kid could have easily quit (I actually thought he may have) on himself with everything that has happened to date.

 

4. Yup, I'm with Holly it is time to put Baker in. I would give Treanor the majority of the starts until he gets some time in with the lineup. Maybe Matt will suprise us if he gets a few more at bats. I think it is a little early for 'it doesn't matter he won't be with us next year'. We are still in this thing.

 

5. Agreed in hindsight, but if DeAza didn't get hurt this may not have had been an argument.

 

6. Probably not quite fair. Yea they are struggling in the field, but I'm not ready to tar and feather them yet.

 

7. I am very suprised we are not seeing more "Sophmore slumps", I'm not all that disapointed in either of them. They are still learning how to get outs now that everyone has seen them.

 

8. Yup, after the Julio disaster this could have gotten ugly. The other bullpen moves seem to have paid off. Maybe it's time to forgive and I know I want to forget.

 

9. Well said

 

10. The point is we could have had others up and given them a chance. Possibly even had three catchers for a while. :whistle

 

11. Not sure who else I would put there without it turning into more of a black hole that it has been.

 

12. Yup, but not quite as bad. Not saying much, but there is improvement.

 

Maybe it a lot less that 2 cents worth :rolleyes:

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he is still the best we have

 

 

maybe not on talent (debatable) but certainly on every other aspect of the game and he is there by far, regardless of how bad he is pitching this year. Its not like anybody is surpasing him

 

And, again, that goes back to my main point of no matter how good he looks by comparison, that's it, it's just comparison.

 

The second you start stacking him up against other team's pitching, you realize what kind of hole we're in.

 

so what do you throw out there to other teams pitching?

 

cos we really dont have much ...

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he is still the best we have

 

 

maybe not on talent (debatable) but certainly on every other aspect of the game and he is there by far, regardless of how bad he is pitching this year. Its not like anybody is surpasing him

 

And, again, that goes back to my main point of no matter how good he looks by comparison, that's it, it's just comparison.

 

The second you start stacking him up against other team's pitching, you realize what kind of hole we're in.

 

so what do you throw out there to other teams pitching?

 

cos we really dont have much ...

 

Um...Sergio Mitre.

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and how reliable is Sergio Mitre?

 

 

yeah exactly

 

he might be pitching good this year but its not his track record and besides, he is always nagging, has missed some starts, has gone to the DL ... but he is still the guy you trust because every 5th day he is out there pitching his butt off right? ... oh wait he just missed his last start and the next one has been pushed back again

 

yeah thats reliable

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