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John from Cincinnati


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I'm all sorts of confused right now, but damn were there some absolutely amazing/hilarious moments tonight.

 

"You don't reward failure, Ramon!" - Dickstein (On the mispainted shuffleboard court)

 

"Yeah, mortal combat with unseen forces, I should deprive myself of telepathic information to spare you irritation...from cheeping." - Bill Jacks (When Dayton Callie complains about Zippy)

 

I would have never believed that the best character in this entire show would be Al Bundy, but Ed O'Neill can definitely bring the Milch dialogue like no one else on this show. Also, Cuningham and Teddy seem like characters from the lost third season of Twin Peaks or something. Can't believe there's only 2 more episodes left.

 

 

This might have been my favorite episode. Definitely the funniest, I was laughing the entire episode. Butchie's line "if this is an intervention, I'm clean" was awesome and Ed O'Neill...my goodness, Ed O'Neill!! Who would have thought Al Bundy could be such an amazing actor. The range he is showing is stunning. He can say one word and make you cringe/laugh/think/scare you/think he is crazy. Example tonight was his line of "Outside?!?!" to Dwayne when he told him he show him the video on his computer. :lol :lol Perfect! It even beat the Doctor's line last week of "they're always looking for candy stripers."

 

He absolutely deserves a nomination of some sort.

 

 

The only question I had with this episode was with Link? I think I missed it and it was explained in his opening conversation with Tina, but why is he signing Sean if he just agreed to be bought out with a no compete clause? Slightly confused on that. They almost made it seem like they were signing a deal with the devil, and the end scene with Sean juggling was just outright creepy, very well done.

 

 

I am scared shitless though that they are going to end the season with a cliffhanger and HBO will cancel the show.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well was that it? Is that the last show? If HBO cancels it without bringing back Deadwood I will cancel my HBO. I'm still speechless by it, I don't know what to think. CrimsonCane, maybe you can make some sense out of it?

 

Random, quick thoughts - I am intrigued by the closing line of the show though, It sounded like "Cass Kai mother of God." I have no clue what was going on with the plot line of Steady Freddie. Was John part of a plan by Link to generate hype for Shaun? It can't be that simple can it?

 

I badly need to watch it again.

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Guest CrimsonCane

Well was that it? Is that the last show? If HBO cancels it without bringing back Deadwood I will cancel my HBO. I'm still speechless by it, I don't know what to think. CrimsonCane, maybe you can make some sense out of it?

 

Random, quick thoughts - I am intrigued by the closing line of the show though, It sounded like "Cass Kai mother of God." I have no clue what was going on with the plot line of Steady Freddie. Was John part of a plan by Link to generate hype for Shaun? It can't be that simple can it?

 

I badly need to watch it again.

 

I watched it last night. I'm absolutely amazed by this show. I too have little idea about where the hell they took me (Cincinnati, perhaps?), but the journey was definitely worth my time.

 

I'll post more complete thoughts in a bit, but I'll first see if I can help out with the questions you ask about plot points.

 

At least from what I gathered, the Freddy plot line is about his right-hand man back in Hawaii (the Hawaiian guy who visited). After feeling called to remain in Imperial Beach, Freddy leaves his drug dealing business in the hands of his second in command. However, I'm assuming that the #2 guy is really worried Freddy may have flipped to the gov't or is trying to set him up for something. Freddy knows this, and expects that the guy may come and kill him. As I saw it, Wu is a rival dealer to Freddy who thinks that his connection with the #2 guy is going to allow him to take Freddy's turf with no struggle. ("He gives you his business, so you can hand it over to me.') However, Freddy tells the #2 guy to keep the business for himself and tell Wu to go f**k himself. That's the whole bit about the 17 deposit boxes Freddy has and Freddy only wanting a taste for 3 years. He tells the kid that if he's a man, he'll ask Freddy for the keys himself (i.e. take over on his own), instead of being #2 for Wu now. When the guy returns to the car, he tells Wu he's not about to give anything to anyone, and he later confirms that when he meets Freddy on the beach during the parade.

 

The Linc part at the end with Stinkweed is a smoke screen to explain what has gone on with John and the Yosts. Linc is a changed man by the end of the season, which was a big shock to me because I thought he was originally intended to be the devil personified or something. Obviously, there is alot of public and media interest in the Yosts right now with Shaunie pegged as a miracle boy and then Mitch going to the news stations about Shaunie's sudden disappearance. The public isn't ready to believe in miracle healings and trips to "Cincinnati," so Linc organizes the parade/press conference to give the public a false explanation that they'll be able to stomach. We knew from before that Linc was leaving Stinkweed, Zippy healed Shaun, and John is indeed some sort of miracle worker, Christ-figure, so we can believe that this isn't some season long dupe of the audience. Linc is essentially falling on the sword for John and the Yosts so that everyone will just say, "There's Linc Stark, always looking to make another buck" and not think twice about the miraculous things that are happening before their eyes. That's why John says, "Stinkweed will provide cover for my Father's work."

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Well was that it? Is that the last show? If HBO cancels it without bringing back Deadwood I will cancel my HBO. I'm still speechless by it, I don't know what to think. CrimsonCane, maybe you can make some sense out of it?

 

Random, quick thoughts - I am intrigued by the closing line of the show though, It sounded like "Cass Kai mother of God." I have no clue what was going on with the plot line of Steady Freddie. Was John part of a plan by Link to generate hype for Shaun? It can't be that simple can it?

 

I badly need to watch it again.

 

I watched it last night. I'm absolutely amazed by this show. I too have little idea about where the hell they took me (Cincinnati, perhaps?), but the journey was definitely worth my time.

 

I'll post more complete thoughts in a bit, but I'll first see if I can help out with the questions you ask about plot points.

 

At least from what I gathered, the Freddy plot line is about his right-hand man back in Hawaii (the Hawaiian guy who visited). After feeling called to remain in Imperial Beach, Freddy leaves his drug dealing business in the hands of his second in command. However, I'm assuming that the #2 guy is really worried Freddy may have flipped to the gov't or is trying to set him up for something. Freddy knows this, and expects that the guy may come and kill him. As I saw it, Wu is a rival dealer to Freddy who thinks that his connection with the #2 guy is going to allow him to take Freddy's turf with no struggle. ("He gives you his business, so you can hand it over to me.') However, Freddy tells the #2 guy to keep the business for himself and tell Wu to go f**k himself. That's the whole bit about the 17 deposit boxes Freddy has and Freddy only wanting a taste for 3 years. He tells the kid that if he's a man, he'll ask Freddy for the keys himself (i.e. take over on his own), instead of being #2 for Wu now. When the guy returns to the car, he tells Wu he's not about to give anything to anyone, and he later confirms that when he meets Freddy on the beach during the parade.

 

The Linc part at the end with Stinkweed is a smoke screen to explain what has gone on with John and the Yosts. Linc is a changed man by the end of the season, which was a big shock to me because I thought he was originally intended to be the devil personified or something. Obviously, there is alot of public and media interest in the Yosts right now with Shaunie pegged as a miracle boy and then Mitch going to the news stations about Shaunie's sudden disappearance. The public isn't ready to believe in miracle healings and trips to "Cincinnati," so Linc organizes the parade/press conference to give the public a false explanation that they'll be able to stomach. We knew from before that Linc was leaving Stinkweed, Zippy healed Shaun, and John is indeed some sort of miracle worker, Christ-figure, so we can believe that this isn't some season long dupe of the audience. Linc is essentially falling on the sword for John and the Yosts so that everyone will just say, "There's Linc Stark, always looking to make another buck" and not think twice about the miraculous things that are happening before their eyes. That's why John says, "Stinkweed will provide cover for my Father's work."

 

 

Good stuff. Linc was fascinating throughout the show, everyone was. Do you recognize my sig?

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Guest CrimsonCane

Good stuff. Linc was fascinating throughout the show, everyone was. Do you recognize my sig?

 

Just saw it now. Very nice. The used car salesman (Con Stapleton!) delivers one of the most interesting and important bits of dialogue in the entire season. Who would've thought God/John's Father would formally be Con Stapleton or moonlight as a used car salesman?

 

One of the coolest things for me, is the way Milch geniusly employed play-on-words with the action on screen.

- John flooring Cissy with the "Need a hand" revelation in the sing-song tone of a radio ad for a flooring company.

- Mitch getting back in the game and letting go of his selfishness to be a real member of his family again by actually coming down to earth.

 

I really hope we get another season.

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Just got cancelled.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070814/tv_nm/...cFGE9IALgRpMhkF

 

 

I'll give them a month or so and if they aren't making the Deadwood movies I am canceling my HBO. This is bulls***, HBO used to be great because they would take chances and let shows like this develop. JFC already had a great, small and loyal following of rabid fans and an excellent cast with one of the best TV writers ever.

 

Four of my favorite dramas of all time were canceled within 2 years - Briscoe County Jr., Joan of Arcadia, Bull and now this. Deadwood was canceled a season early too. I am a jinx, the only drama to last that I truly liked so far is Lost. For now on I am going to give dramas two years before I get into them and then simply get the DVDs and use bittorrents.

 

Like you said Crimson, fun while it lasted. Can't wait to get the DVDs.

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John is indeed some sort of miracle worker, Christ-figure, so we can believe that this isn't some season long dupe of the audience. Linc is essentially falling on the sword for John and the Yosts so that everyone will just say, "There's Linc Stark, always looking to make another buck" and not think twice about the miraculous things that are happening before their eyes. That's why John says, "Stinkweed will provide cover for my Father's work."

 

 

The more I thought about it, the more interesting I thought it was that so many people(including myself) have concluded that John is Jesus, John the baptist, an angel or some sort of spiritual creature here to heal us and the Yosts. But Jesus was wise, spoke in parables and gave great sermons...John is just sort of a mirro/parrot who repeats back what people say and think.

 

Sure he can do some things that are miraculous, but he isn't wise, he isn't preaching and he really doesn't have a message. I guess you could say "listen to my fathers words" is his message, but it is so ambiguous to people.

 

I also think it's interesting that the only person to come close to understanding John was Link, who John calls "el camino" which means the road, or the way in spanish. At the end John says "link is el camino". I am going to paraphrase here but Link says something like 'you tell me to listen to your fathers words, yet you only repeat back what I say..so my words are your fathers?' and John agrees. I am just rambling now, but maybe that was the message of the show?

 

I just wish we could have one more season. I'd love to see David Milch write a novel, I know he is a published poet and JFC would make a great book. I doubt any other TV show will ever have the balls to go as deep as this one did, and that's a shame.

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Guest CrimsonCane

John is indeed some sort of miracle worker, Christ-figure, so we can believe that this isn't some season long dupe of the audience. Linc is essentially falling on the sword for John and the Yosts so that everyone will just say, "There's Linc Stark, always looking to make another buck" and not think twice about the miraculous things that are happening before their eyes. That's why John says, "Stinkweed will provide cover for my Father's work."

 

 

The more I thought about it, the more interesting I thought it was that so many people(including myself) have concluded that John is Jesus, John the baptist, an angel or some sort of spiritual creature here to heal us and the Yosts. But Jesus was wise, spoke in parables and gave great sermons...John is just sort of a mirro/parrot who repeats back what people say and think.

 

Sure he can do some things that are miraculous, but he isn't wise, he isn't preaching and he really doesn't have a message. I guess you could say "listen to my fathers words" is his message, but it is so ambiguous to people.

 

I also think it's interesting that the only person to come close to understanding John was Link, who John calls "el camino" which means the road, or the way in spanish. At the end John says "link is el camino". I am going to paraphrase here but Link says something like 'you tell me to listen to your fathers words, yet you only repeat back what I say..so my words are your fathers?' and John agrees. I am just rambling now, but maybe that was the message of the show?

 

I just wish we could have one more season. I'd love to see David Milch write a novel, I know he is a published poet and JFC would make a great book. I doubt any other TV show will ever have the balls to go as deep as this one did, and that's a shame.

 

I still believe the John is some sort of angelic or messianic figure, but that his inability to communicate through words is an effort by Milch to convey the frustration that living a life of faith can bring about. In the last episode, Linc tells John, "What am I supposed to do? I mean, tell me what to do, my brother. Just spit it right the f*ck out. Five words, maximum, right now… pow boom!" That's a conversation people everywhere have between themselves and their God everyday. We just may not be as straightforward as Linc because we're not in the physical presence of someone who presumably has a direct line to "Cincinnati." I also think that John's parroting is an attempt to conceptualize the idea "My thoughts are not your thoughts, and my ways are not your ways" that God communicates to Isaiah. In that same conversation with Linc, John says, "If my words are yours, can you hear my father?" I know this show revels in ambiguity, but I think the best answer to that question, as far as this show is concerned, is "Not really." John even follows it up by saying, "Let’s say the zeros and ones in Cass’ camera help you hear my father’s word." Which I take to mean that observing the transformation of the Yost family and the way they and the people around them have come together since John's arrival is far more conducive to understanding God's message (as Milch conceives it) than anything John has said.

 

The whole Camino-Linc thing has me a bit confused because the phrase is used twice with very different meanings. And, Milch cares far too much about dialogue and the written word for me to think it was unintended. At the used car dealership, the salesman and John both say something to Linc along the lines of, "He feels you’re ready for the Camino." That leads me to believe that Linc is ready to go on the right path; he's finally in the game, so to speak. Then, at the parade scene, John says, "Linc is El Camino," which is a totally different message. Right before he says that, John says, "Stinkweed lays down cover for my father." I think Milch is playing off the dual meaning (religious and common) of the word "way." I think in the first part, he means, "Linc, you're ready for this path." and in the parade he means, "Linc (and his whole "Leopard-never-loses-its-spots" admission) is the way Stinkweed will provide cover." That's how I see it.

 

I too hope Milch does something in the future. No question, the man can write. I would love for it to be on TV because no one does dialogue like Milch. However, having your past two television efforts go tragically underappreciated and cancelled on HBO is not a good track record for financially conscious network execs. I also heard that JFC cost almost as much as Deadwood to produce because Milch tossed out episodes worth of footage and started practically anew while they filmed Season 1, and I know one of the reasons HBO picked JFC over a fourth season of Deadwood is that production costs for Deadwood were really high.

 

BTW, all the quotes and stuff I'm pulling off of transcripts from http://calamitydan.com/protect/john_from_cincinnatti.htm

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John is indeed some sort of miracle worker, Christ-figure, so we can believe that this isn't some season long dupe of the audience. Linc is essentially falling on the sword for John and the Yosts so that everyone will just say, "There's Linc Stark, always looking to make another buck" and not think twice about the miraculous things that are happening before their eyes. That's why John says, "Stinkweed will provide cover for my Father's work."

 

 

The more I thought about it, the more interesting I thought it was that so many people(including myself) have concluded that John is Jesus, John the baptist, an angel or some sort of spiritual creature here to heal us and the Yosts. But Jesus was wise, spoke in parables and gave great sermons...John is just sort of a mirro/parrot who repeats back what people say and think.

 

Sure he can do some things that are miraculous, but he isn't wise, he isn't preaching and he really doesn't have a message. I guess you could say "listen to my fathers words" is his message, but it is so ambiguous to people.

 

I also think it's interesting that the only person to come close to understanding John was Link, who John calls "el camino" which means the road, or the way in spanish. At the end John says "link is el camino". I am going to paraphrase here but Link says something like 'you tell me to listen to your fathers words, yet you only repeat back what I say..so my words are your fathers?' and John agrees. I am just rambling now, but maybe that was the message of the show?

 

I just wish we could have one more season. I'd love to see David Milch write a novel, I know he is a published poet and JFC would make a great book. I doubt any other TV show will ever have the balls to go as deep as this one did, and that's a shame.

 

I still believe the John is some sort of angelic or messianic figure, but that his inability to communicate through words is an effort by Milch to convey the frustration that living a life of faith can bring about. In the last episode, Linc tells John, "What am I supposed to do? I mean, tell me what to do, my brother. Just spit it right the f*ck out. Five words, maximum, right now? pow boom!" That's a conversation people everywhere have between themselves and their God everyday. We just may not be as straightforward as Linc because we're not in the physical presence of someone who presumably has a direct line to "Cincinnati." I also think that John's parroting is an attempt to conceptualize the idea "My thoughts are not your thoughts, and my ways are not your ways" that God communicates to Isaiah. In that same conversation with Linc, John says, "If my words are yours, can you hear my father?" I know this show revels in ambiguity, but I think the best answer to that question, as far as this show is concerned, is "Not really." John even follows it up by saying, "Let?s say the zeros and ones in Cass? camera help you hear my father?s word." Which I take to mean that observing the transformation of the Yost family and the way they and the people around them have come together since John's arrival is far more conducive to understanding God's message (as Milch conceives it) than anything John has said.

 

The whole Camino-Linc thing has me a bit confused because the phrase is used twice with very different meanings. And, Milch cares far too much about dialogue and the written word for me to think it was unintended. At the used car dealership, the salesman and John both say something to Linc along the lines of, "He feels you?re ready for the Camino." That leads me to believe that Linc is ready to go on the right path; he's finally in the game, so to speak. Then, at the parade scene, John says, "Linc is El Camino," which is a totally different message. Right before he says that, John says, "Stinkweed lays down cover for my father." I think Milch is playing off the dual meaning (religious and common) of the word "way." I think in the first part, he means, "Linc, you're ready for this path." and in the parade he means, "Linc (and his whole "Leopard-never-loses-its-spots" admission) is the way Stinkweed will provide cover." That's how I see it.

 

I too hope Milch does something in the future. No question, the man can write. I would love for it to be on TV because no one does dialogue like Milch. However, having your past two television efforts go tragically underappreciated and cancelled on HBO is not a good track record for financially conscious network execs. I also heard that JFC cost almost as much as Deadwood to produce because Milch tossed out episodes worth of footage and started practically anew while they filmed Season 1, and I know one of the reasons HBO picked JFC over a fourth season of Deadwood is that production costs for Deadwood were really high.

 

BTW, all the quotes and stuff I'm pulling off of transcripts from http://calamitydan.com/protect/john_from_cincinnatti.htm

 

 

Wow, great stuff once again Crimson. This is one of those shows that I think I could watch again and again, and I will be eagerly awaiting the DVDs. It will be great to watch the first few episodes with what we know about the show now.

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