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Poker in Florida


pierremvp1
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I've never been interested much in the poker games available here. Playing in a game with a low maximum pot or a tournament with a huge takeout never did much for me. But as of July 1, there's real poker available in the casinos and racinos. $1-2 NL w/$100 buy-in. $3-5NL with $300 buy-in. And bigger games available as well.

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I just spent a few hours at the Isle of Capri. Nice poker room. Good game. Lots of fishies, but this was a holiday day. Also, a nice overall layout there. Good choice of restaurants and bars, and horse racing live and simulcast. Just add a sportsbook and I could move in.

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The Isle is REALLY nice for a Florida casino.

 

The only way they could make the poker better was if they allowed a $200 max buy in and a $500 max buy in on the $3-$5 game (are you sure its not a $2/$5 game?)

 

The only question is.......will it be full of fishes or will all the sharks be congregating in hopes of big paydays. I play in a few home games now but I'll be hitting the Isle quite a bit because I live about a mile away. One drawback of the Isle compared to my home games is the rake is bigger at the Isle.

 

I can't tell you how impressed I am @ how nice the Isle is (and I was VERY skeptical). They really did that place up nice.

 

I would have never went there if they changed to the current NL game. The old cash game they offered was not poker, it was poker bingo.

 

 

And QFT about the Sportsbook. How cool would that be? It still amazes me how horseracing is legal but sportsbetting and online poker are not.

 

Ridiculous.

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I'm not sure about whether it's $2/5 or $3/5. Also not sure about the max buy-in at that table. I got the idea today that the staff themselves aren't sure. It's a work-in-progress with rules that could change from one day to the next at first. I'm hardly the expert though as I have now spent a total of 5 hours playing in Florida poker rooms. I have seen the scene at Gulfstream(dysfunctional), Mardi Gras(dank and dreary), and the Hard Rock & Coconut Creek(I'd play solitaire before I gave my money to the Indians without the State getting a piece). The Isle is the nicest. I'll definitely go back.

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My opinion is that there will be enough fish during the winter, but summer's could be a tough crowd.

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And on the horseracing issue, it's like most things...it's because of the money involved. Horse racing has a strong base of old money, lots of money, and they have political force. I don't think you'll see sportsbetting outside of Vegas in our lifetimes, but full table game casinos could be in the near future in Florida.

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hard rock in tampa now has 1-2 no limit 2-4 limit etc.

I don't like to give my money to the Indians without the State getting a piece of the action. I don't care what they offer or how nice they may be. But yes, the Indian casinos all over the State are offering NL games. With both 1-2($100 buy-in), 2-4, and higher buy-in games. I heard that one of the Indian Casinos down here has a $5,000 buy-in game.

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oh so they just changed the rules? What is this isle you are talking about? What are the new limits at the hard rock in hollywood?

It's a no-limit game at Hard Rock, and Isle of Capri, and other casinos and racinos. You can bet whatever you have in front of you. Real poker. The game begins with a $50 minimum/$100 maximum per person buy-in.

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oh so they just changed the rules? What is this isle you are talking about? What are the new limits at the hard rock in hollywood?

It's a no-limit game at Hard Rock, and Isle of Capri, and other casinos and racinos. You can bet whatever you have in front of you. Real poker. The game begins with a $50 minimum/$100 maximum per person buy-in.

 

Wow thats awesome news. I didnt like playing at the hard rock because they had those limits and everyone would just call every hand.

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The Isle is the new casino area at Pompano Racetrack.

 

Its REALLY nice (this coming from a skeptic).

 

The change took affect July 1.

 

The question now is, will this stop you from going to las vegas as much, now that you can get good poker right at home?

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The Isle is the new casino area at Pompano Racetrack.

 

Its REALLY nice (this coming from a skeptic).

 

The change took affect July 1.

 

The question now is, will this stop you from going to las vegas as much, now that you can get good poker right at home?

 

 

:lol

 

No because

 

A) We still don't have sportsbooks here

 

B) I like a higher max buy in (Max buy-in should always be at least 100 times the big blind). A $200 max buy in would be better for the games in Florida.

 

C) I dont know if the Indians are going to rape us with a ridiculously high rake.

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The Isle is the new casino area at Pompano Racetrack.

 

Its REALLY nice (this coming from a skeptic).

 

The change took affect July 1.

 

The question now is, will this stop you from going to las vegas as much, now that you can get good poker right at home?

 

 

:lol

 

No because

 

A) We still don't have sportsbooks here

 

B) I like a higher max buy in (Max buy-in should always be at least 100 times the big blind). A $200 max buy in would be better for the games in Florida.

 

C) I dont know if the Indians are going to rape us with a ridiculously high rake.

 

How are the casinos in the bahamas? Dont they have sportsbooks and what not? If you go on that suncruise you can go every weekend and then spend your vacation time going abroad :)

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hard rock in tampa now has 1-2 no limit 2-4 limit etc.

I don't like to give my money to the Indians without the State getting a piece of the action. I don't care what they offer or how nice they may be. But yes, the Indian casinos all over the State are offering NL games. With both 1-2($100 buy-in), 2-4, and higher buy-in games. I heard that one of the Indian Casinos down here has a $5,000 buy-in game.

Why not? I mean, if you're gonna gamble anyway, who really cares who gets the money? Maybe I'm missing something.

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hard rock in tampa now has 1-2 no limit 2-4 limit etc.

I don't like to give my money to the Indians without the State getting a piece of the action. I don't care what they offer or how nice they may be. But yes, the Indian casinos all over the State are offering NL games. With both 1-2($100 buy-in), 2-4, and higher buy-in games. I heard that one of the Indian Casinos down here has a $5,000 buy-in game.

Why not? I mean, if you're gonna gamble anyway, who really cares who gets the money? Maybe I'm missing something.

You're missing plenty.

1. The millions that the Indians make...They admit to 500 million per year but nobody really knows, except for them. By law, they currently have no oversight....they pay no tax....the State gets nothing. And this has been going on for years.

2. The millions that Isle of Capri and other racinos make....they have oversight...they pay 40% tax, which has added over 64 million to the State coffers in the less than a year that they've been legalized. And by law a big chunk of that money is to be directed towards education, and in practice it has gone towards programs benefiting college students in Florida. Financial aid...Bright Futures...Texas Tea.....

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You also seem to be not all that familiar with how casinos make their money. In slots and table games, it is me against the casino. Either I win or they win. But in some games, like the poker that this thread is about...The casino doesn't care what player wins.......it's not me against the casino...it's me against the other players. The casino makes it's money by skimming a bit from the top from whoever wins. Like if I'm lucky and I win a $100 pot...the house keeps $5. This adds up for the house(casino). When I'm unlucky and I lose a $100 pot the casino doesn't pay me $5.

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hard rock in tampa now has 1-2 no limit 2-4 limit etc.

I don't like to give my money to the Indians without the State getting a piece of the action. I don't care what they offer or how nice they may be. But yes, the Indian casinos all over the State are offering NL games. With both 1-2($100 buy-in), 2-4, and higher buy-in games. I heard that one of the Indian Casinos down here has a $5,000 buy-in game.

Why not? I mean, if you're gonna gamble anyway, who really cares who gets the money? Maybe I'm missing something.

You're missing plenty.

1. The millions that the Indians make...They admit to 500 million per year but nobody really knows, except for them. By law, they currently have no oversight....they pay no tax....the State gets nothing. And this has been going on for years.

2. The millions that Isle of Capri and other racinos make....they have oversight...they pay 40% tax, which has added over 64 million to the State coffers in the less than a year that they've been legalized. And by law a big chunk of that money is to be directed towards education, and in practice it has gone towards programs benefiting college students in Florida. Financial aid...Bright Futures...Texas Tea.....

.

.

.

You also seem to be not all that familiar with how casinos make their money. In slots and table games, it is me against the casino. Either I win or they win. But in some games, like the poker that this thread is about...The casino doesn't care what player wins.......it's not me against the casino...it's me against the other players. The casino makes it's money by skimming a bit from the top from whoever wins. Like if I'm lucky and I win a $100 pot...the house keeps $5. This adds up for the house(casino). When I'm unlucky and I lose a $100 pot the casino doesn't pay me $5.

I'm plenty familiar with how casinos make money as I've played poker specifically over at Foxwoods on numerous occasions. (To be fair, I prefer tournaments to ring games but I've played both and know that the casino's money in poker games comes as a fee for play, whether through having to chip in a particular amount per time period of play in a ring game, or as a flat fee off the top in a tournament.) In other games, the casino's profit stems directly from the structure of the game, in that over time all bets placed have a negative expectation--even "good" betting strategies are only able to bring that expectation as close to the break-even point as possible. In other words, taken on the whole, the sum of the players in the casino are always going to lose money to the house.

 

Not having lived in Florida since I was 18, I wasn't aware of the various legal issues--because racinos weren't even legal in the state when I lived there. But if you're complaining about Indian casinos not having to pay taxes vs. racinos having to, well that's something that is never going to be addressed. (via Wikipedia) "In 1987 the U.S. Supreme Court recognized that, as sovereign political entities, federally recognized Native American tribal entities could operate gaming facilities free of state regulation." Though actually I just looked it up and Foxwoods, at least, pays 25% tax on its slot revenues to the state of Connecticut. But regardless, once the facility opens, good luck trying to renegotiate.

 

As well, I guess I'm not really sure what you're getting at when you say "oversight." But I mean, what I was trying to say is that it seems like if I were trying to find a place to play, factors like what games are offered and their schedule, the location, the facilities, and so on would be much more important in deciding where to go than whether or not the place pays state tax or not. (For me there isn't really a decision, as Foxwoods happens to be the only nearby casino that has a poker room. Luckily it's also really nice.)

 

The way I see it, once the money leaves my wallet...it'll go wherever it goes. In the grand scheme of things, it's like a teardrop in the ocean for either the Indians or the state.

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BTW when I said I wasn't sure what you meant about oversight, I mean that it's not like the Hard Rock is cheating people out of their money or something. The profit's built into the game so the dumbest thing a casino could do would be to game their profits...anyone figures it out and the place would empty in a second.

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hard rock in tampa now has 1-2 no limit 2-4 limit etc.

I don't like to give my money to the Indians without the State getting a piece of the action. I don't care what they offer or how nice they may be. But yes, the Indian casinos all over the State are offering NL games. With both 1-2($100 buy-in), 2-4, and higher buy-in games. I heard that one of the Indian Casinos down here has a $5,000 buy-in game.

Why not? I mean, if you're gonna gamble anyway, who really cares who gets the money? Maybe I'm missing something.

You're missing plenty.

1. The millions that the Indians make...They admit to 500 million per year but nobody really knows, except for them. By law, they currently have no oversight....they pay no tax....the State gets nothing. And this has been going on for years.

2. The millions that Isle of Capri and other racinos make....they have oversight...they pay 40% tax, which has added over 64 million to the State coffers in the less than a year that they've been legalized. And by law a big chunk of that money is to be directed towards education, and in practice it has gone towards programs benefiting college students in Florida. Financial aid...Bright Futures...Texas Tea.....

.

.

.

You also seem to be not all that familiar with how casinos make their money. In slots and table games, it is me against the casino. Either I win or they win. But in some games, like the poker that this thread is about...The casino doesn't care what player wins.......it's not me against the casino...it's me against the other players. The casino makes it's money by skimming a bit from the top from whoever wins. Like if I'm lucky and I win a $100 pot...the house keeps $5. This adds up for the house(casino). When I'm unlucky and I lose a $100 pot the casino doesn't pay me $5.

I'm plenty familiar with how casinos make money as I've played poker specifically over at Foxwoods on numerous occasions. (To be fair, I prefer tournaments to ring games but I've played both and know that the casino's money in poker games comes as a fee for play, whether through having to chip in a particular amount per time period of play in a ring game, or as a flat fee off the top in a tournament.) In other games, the casino's profit stems directly from the structure of the game, in that over time all bets placed have a negative expectation--even "good" betting strategies are only able to bring that expectation as close to the break-even point as possible. In other words, taken on the whole, the sum of the players in the casino are always going to lose money to the house.

 

Not having lived in Florida since I was 18, I wasn't aware of the various legal issues--because racinos weren't even legal in the state when I lived there. But if you're complaining about Indian casinos not having to pay taxes vs. racinos having to, well that's something that is never going to be addressed. (via Wikipedia) "In 1987 the U.S. Supreme Court recognized that, as sovereign political entities, federally recognized Native American tribal entities could operate gaming facilities free of state regulation." Though actually I just looked it up and Foxwoods, at least, pays 25% tax on its slot revenues to the state of Connecticut. But regardless, once the facility opens, good luck trying to renegotiate.

 

As well, I guess I'm not really sure what you're getting at when you say "oversight." But I mean, what I was trying to say is that it seems like if I were trying to find a place to play, factors like what games are offered and their schedule, the location, the facilities, and so on would be much more important in deciding where to go than whether or not the place pays state tax or not. (For me there isn't really a decision, as Foxwoods happens to be the only nearby casino that has a poker room. Luckily it's also really nice.)

 

The way I see it, once the money leaves my wallet...it'll go wherever it goes. In the grand scheme of things, it's like a teardrop in the ocean for either the Indians or the state.

What you or I may leave behind in a casino may be a teardrop, but add up what everybody leaves behind, and it's millions, or in the case of Foxwoods, billions. What you found on Wikipedia is just part of the story. My specialty is not Indian Gaming Law, but I do believe that the Indians need to first make a good faith effort to negotiate a "compact" with each particular state. In the case of Connecticut, this is a more enlightened state than Florida. They negotiated a compact with the Indians years ago and it's been a win-win situation for all. In Florida, the Indians want to negotiate a compact, however the previous governor had a moral problem with gambling and wouldn't negotiate. The present governor has indicated that he will negotiate. If he doesn't within the next few months than the US Goverment has ruled that the Indians can continue to operate and keep all the profits. And again, the Indians want to negotiate. They want to be regulated and taxed like Foxwoods(in exchange for becoming a full-fledged casino like Foxwoods). The oversight refers to this regulation by the state. If you walk into Foxwoods, or any casino(racino) that is regulated, then there's a little sign that tells you how much the takeout rate is, and you know that State inspectors have been there to make sure the game is not fixed, or that the takeout rate is not too high, which would be akin to cheating in my book. Currently, there is no oversight or regulation or taxation of the Indian casinos herei n Florida. We don't know how much they are making, or if they are cheating in some way.

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Ok so now Seminole Coconut Creek has apparently backed down and now offers a max buy in of $100

 

So f'n lame.

 

They were probably getting steam from the racetracks who were losing business to the Seminoles because as far as I know the racetracks only ever offered the $100 max.

 

3 steps forward, 5 steps back is typical Florida style.

 

 

Looks like Im back to home cash games.

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