The way I look at it is a team like Dallas will probably give you both of there 1st round pick to get McFaddon if the Phins do end up with the 1st overall pick. And that is what will help the Dolphins more because this team has alot of needs and Ronnie is looking like a franchise back.

As mentioned earlier, Ronnie leads the NFL in yards from scrimmage. I would much rather get a DT or defensive back...even if McFaddon looks incredible.

 

Fine, but you don't PASS on him. You either take him or you trade out of the spot.

 

Yes you do. If DL is the biggest need, then thats what you get. Lets just take a look at some stats. The horrid jets run defense has allowed 450 yards this year, while the dolphins have allowed 797 yards!

 

Dolphins Dline starters (per sportsline)

 

Jason Taylor age 33, will be 34 by the start of next season

Vonnie Holliday turns 32 in a few months

Keith Traylor age 38

 

notice anything?

 

No you don't. We're in this position now because we thought we NEEDED a WR when we could have used any number of positions, and not just bemoaning the Brady Quinn pick. Okoye, Revis and Willis all would have been better "take the best player" picks instead of take what you need who cares about talent or value for a high-pick selections.

 

I know you're not a Dolphin fan, and I'm pretty sure you're just baiting this on, but let's pretend the Dolphins take the best player on the board last season, and they don't believe it to be Brady Quinn. We'd have ended up with Okoye or Willis. Both of those guys sure would have been HUGE for this team right now, even if we didn't think we'd necessarily need them this year. Instead we decided this team NEEDED a Devin Hester type return guy because the offense could only move 30 or 40 yards at a time. Now the defense looks old, the player of need is already a huge let-down and nobody walks away from that draft a winner? Why, because we allowed a perception of need to cloud value.

 

So, to conclude, you take the best player at the pick and figure it out later, or you allow a team that needs that player to pay the ransom price for that player. You don't get better if you don't maximize value, especially with a top-10 pick.

 

I'm not baiting people, lets get that clear. For a while now people have been saying that the dolphins defense is old. This year it has finally hit the wall.

 

Ginn wasnt even the best receiver in the draft last season. The truth is when he was drafted Cameron referred to him as a kick returner and not a WR. Furthermore, the dolphins already had a good returner/wr in Welker which they traded away.

 

What does drafting McFadden actually accomplish? They have so many holes on defense, that they should draft to fix weaknesses, not strengths. If you allow 800 yards in 4 games, I dont care if you have Walter Payton and Emmit Smith in the backfield, you will still go 0-4.

 

Here's the thing. We're now on a very short list of teams to have the #1 pick. We'll really be lucky to win 3 games this season. McFadden is a once in a decade type talent. He really is Tomlinson 2.0. I love Ronnie Brown, I own his jersey, but you don't let what you have influence what you pick, especially with the #1 pick. Someone will give you something sexy for McFadden if you don't want him, but to just completely pass on him is stupid, especially with the gap between him and other #1 hopefuls like Jake Long and Glenn Dorsey so great.

 

To me, this is very reminiscent of the Eli Manning draft. The gap between #1 and everyone else on draft day was perceived as so drastic, that even a team that knew he'd never play a single down for them couldn't let that value slip away. I'd say the Chargers did alright for themselves with that method.

 

There are many intelligent ways to go about this kind of draft with the #1 pick, but using the #1 pick on the 3rd or 4th best player because of need is not it.

 

I guess we'll have to see where the dolphins finish before we have this discussion. But if they finish with the worst record in the NFL and allow over 3,000 yards rushing, then they would be foolish to not address defense. The only way that drafting McFaddon makes sense. is if you are prepared to be terrible again in 08 and spend two years rebuilding (imo).

 

Now you're just contradicting yourself. If the only thing separating the Dolphins from being 'good' or 'rebuilding' is a DT, we'll find one in the offseason without dropping the #1 overall pick on it.

 

If we need a lot of help, we maximize value from the pick. If we follow the Chargers Eli-Manning mold, so be it. If we trade Ronnie Brown, so be it. If we trade down and follow the Chargers Michael Vick mold, so be it.

 

The dolphins are several players away from being good. I think if you arent a good team, you need to spend your picks on need, not on a luxury. The dolphins best player is probably Ronnie Brown. Drafting another running back, who will just take carries away from Brown, makes zero sense. If they trade Brown, then I would have no problem getting McFaddon as long as they spend the rest of their picks (and those in the Brown trade) on need.

 

Now let me make this clear, I am arguing this on the basis that Ronnie Brown gets at least 1,200 yards rushing. If he cant get that done, then I would be all for McFaddon (since it would be three pedestrian seasons in a row for Brown).

As mentioned earlier, Ronnie leads the NFL in yards from scrimmage. I would much rather get a DT or defensive back...even if McFaddon looks incredible.

 

Fine, but you don't PASS on him. You either take him or you trade out of the spot.

 

Yes you do. If DL is the biggest need, then thats what you get. Lets just take a look at some stats. The horrid jets run defense has allowed 450 yards this year, while the dolphins have allowed 797 yards!

 

Dolphins Dline starters (per sportsline)

 

Jason Taylor age 33, will be 34 by the start of next season

Vonnie Holliday turns 32 in a few months

Keith Traylor age 38

 

notice anything?

 

No you don't. We're in this position now because we thought we NEEDED a WR when we could have used any number of positions, and not just bemoaning the Brady Quinn pick. Okoye, Revis and Willis all would have been better "take the best player" picks instead of take what you need who cares about talent or value for a high-pick selections.

 

I know you're not a Dolphin fan, and I'm pretty sure you're just baiting this on, but let's pretend the Dolphins take the best player on the board last season, and they don't believe it to be Brady Quinn. We'd have ended up with Okoye or Willis. Both of those guys sure would have been HUGE for this team right now, even if we didn't think we'd necessarily need them this year. Instead we decided this team NEEDED a Devin Hester type return guy because the offense could only move 30 or 40 yards at a time. Now the defense looks old, the player of need is already a huge let-down and nobody walks away from that draft a winner? Why, because we allowed a perception of need to cloud value.

 

So, to conclude, you take the best player at the pick and figure it out later, or you allow a team that needs that player to pay the ransom price for that player. You don't get better if you don't maximize value, especially with a top-10 pick.

 

I'm not baiting people, lets get that clear. For a while now people have been saying that the dolphins defense is old. This year it has finally hit the wall.

 

Ginn wasnt even the best receiver in the draft last season. The truth is when he was drafted Cameron referred to him as a kick returner and not a WR. Furthermore, the dolphins already had a good returner/wr in Welker which they traded away.

 

What does drafting McFadden actually accomplish? They have so many holes on defense, that they should draft to fix weaknesses, not strengths. If you allow 800 yards in 4 games, I dont care if you have Walter Payton and Emmit Smith in the backfield, you will still go 0-4.

 

Here's the thing. We're now on a very short list of teams to have the #1 pick. We'll really be lucky to win 3 games this season. McFadden is a once in a decade type talent. He really is Tomlinson 2.0. I love Ronnie Brown, I own his jersey, but you don't let what you have influence what you pick, especially with the #1 pick. Someone will give you something sexy for McFadden if you don't want him, but to just completely pass on him is stupid, especially with the gap between him and other #1 hopefuls like Jake Long and Glenn Dorsey so great.

 

To me, this is very reminiscent of the Eli Manning draft. The gap between #1 and everyone else on draft day was perceived as so drastic, that even a team that knew he'd never play a single down for them couldn't let that value slip away. I'd say the Chargers did alright for themselves with that method.

 

There are many intelligent ways to go about this kind of draft with the #1 pick, but using the #1 pick on the 3rd or 4th best player because of need is not it.

 

I guess we'll have to see where the dolphins finish before we have this discussion. But if they finish with the worst record in the NFL and allow over 3,000 yards rushing, then they would be foolish to not address defense. The only way that drafting McFaddon makes sense. is if you are prepared to be terrible again in 08 and spend two years rebuilding (imo).

 

Now you're just contradicting yourself. If the only thing separating the Dolphins from being 'good' or 'rebuilding' is a DT, we'll find one in the offseason without dropping the #1 overall pick on it.

 

If we need a lot of help, we maximize value from the pick. If we follow the Chargers Eli-Manning mold, so be it. If we trade Ronnie Brown, so be it. If we trade down and follow the Chargers Michael Vick mold, so be it.

 

The dolphins are several players away from being good. I think we you arent a good team, you need to spend your picks on need, not on a luxury. The dolphins best player is probably Ronnie Brown. Drafting another running back, who will just take carries away from Brown, makes zero sense. If they trade Brown, then I would have no problem getting McFaddon as long as they spend the rest of their picks (and those in the Brown trade) on need.

 

Now let me make this clear, I am arguing this on the basis that Ronnie Brown gets at least 1,200 yards rushing. If he cant get that done, then I would be all for McFaddon (since it would be three pedestrian seasons in a row for Brown).

 

So then if they're several players away, wouldn't we be rebuilding for several years? In that case, by your own admission, McFadden is worth the pick.

 

Of course, my stance is also based on the notion that Beck is was and will continue to be OUR QB for the next 4 seasons at least. If anything changes to the contrary then regardless of McFadden, Brohm makes a lot of 'need' sense. But that's at an overly unique position, and we all know that.

Not that I think we should even consider a QB but Woodson>>Brohm.

 

Anyways, I was just reading in the Miami Herald online, that 5 rookies have better punt return averages and 4 have better kick return averages than Ginn. All of them are undrafted free agents. No word on if they have great families.

can someone please answer me this? is our offense or our defense losing us games this year? is our running back the problem or the fact we cant stop a running back the problem?

 

oh yeah...and someone smart once said "defense wins championships"...our defense would have a hard time stopping walter payton and he has been dead for a few years now...sometimes the answer is so obvious that all the mcfadden fans are blinded by what our true need is

As mentioned earlier, Ronnie leads the NFL in yards from scrimmage. I would much rather get a DT or defensive back...even if McFaddon looks incredible.

 

Fine, but you don't PASS on him. You either take him or you trade out of the spot.

 

Yes you do. If DL is the biggest need, then thats what you get. Lets just take a look at some stats. The horrid jets run defense has allowed 450 yards this year, while the dolphins have allowed 797 yards!

 

Dolphins Dline starters (per sportsline)

 

Jason Taylor age 33, will be 34 by the start of next season

Vonnie Holliday turns 32 in a few months

Keith Traylor age 38

 

notice anything?

 

No you don't. We're in this position now because we thought we NEEDED a WR when we could have used any number of positions, and not just bemoaning the Brady Quinn pick. Okoye, Revis and Willis all would have been better "take the best player" picks instead of take what you need who cares about talent or value for a high-pick selections.

 

I know you're not a Dolphin fan, and I'm pretty sure you're just baiting this on, but let's pretend the Dolphins take the best player on the board last season, and they don't believe it to be Brady Quinn. We'd have ended up with Okoye or Willis. Both of those guys sure would have been HUGE for this team right now, even if we didn't think we'd necessarily need them this year. Instead we decided this team NEEDED a Devin Hester type return guy because the offense could only move 30 or 40 yards at a time. Now the defense looks old, the player of need is already a huge let-down and nobody walks away from that draft a winner? Why, because we allowed a perception of need to cloud value.

 

So, to conclude, you take the best player at the pick and figure it out later, or you allow a team that needs that player to pay the ransom price for that player. You don't get better if you don't maximize value, especially with a top-10 pick.

 

I'm not baiting people, lets get that clear. For a while now people have been saying that the dolphins defense is old. This year it has finally hit the wall.

 

Ginn wasnt even the best receiver in the draft last season. The truth is when he was drafted Cameron referred to him as a kick returner and not a WR. Furthermore, the dolphins already had a good returner/wr in Welker which they traded away.

 

What does drafting McFadden actually accomplish? They have so many holes on defense, that they should draft to fix weaknesses, not strengths. If you allow 800 yards in 4 games, I dont care if you have Walter Payton and Emmit Smith in the backfield, you will still go 0-4.

 

Here's the thing. We're now on a very short list of teams to have the #1 pick. We'll really be lucky to win 3 games this season. McFadden is a once in a decade type talent. He really is Tomlinson 2.0. I love Ronnie Brown, I own his jersey, but you don't let what you have influence what you pick, especially with the #1 pick. Someone will give you something sexy for McFadden if you don't want him, but to just completely pass on him is stupid, especially with the gap between him and other #1 hopefuls like Jake Long and Glenn Dorsey so great.

 

To me, this is very reminiscent of the Eli Manning draft. The gap between #1 and everyone else on draft day was perceived as so drastic, that even a team that knew he'd never play a single down for them couldn't let that value slip away. I'd say the Chargers did alright for themselves with that method.

 

There are many intelligent ways to go about this kind of draft with the #1 pick, but using the #1 pick on the 3rd or 4th best player because of need is not it.

 

I guess we'll have to see where the dolphins finish before we have this discussion. But if they finish with the worst record in the NFL and allow over 3,000 yards rushing, then they would be foolish to not address defense. The only way that drafting McFaddon makes sense. is if you are prepared to be terrible again in 08 and spend two years rebuilding (imo).

 

Now you're just contradicting yourself. If the only thing separating the Dolphins from being 'good' or 'rebuilding' is a DT, we'll find one in the offseason without dropping the #1 overall pick on it.

 

If we need a lot of help, we maximize value from the pick. If we follow the Chargers Eli-Manning mold, so be it. If we trade Ronnie Brown, so be it. If we trade down and follow the Chargers Michael Vick mold, so be it.

 

The dolphins are several players away from being good. I think we you arent a good team, you need to spend your picks on need, not on a luxury. The dolphins best player is probably Ronnie Brown. Drafting another running back, who will just take carries away from Brown, makes zero sense. If they trade Brown, then I would have no problem getting McFaddon as long as they spend the rest of their picks (and those in the Brown trade) on need.

 

Now let me make this clear, I am arguing this on the basis that Ronnie Brown gets at least 1,200 yards rushing. If he cant get that done, then I would be all for McFaddon (since it would be three pedestrian seasons in a row for Brown).

 

So then if they're several players away, wouldn't we be rebuilding for several years? In that case, by your own admission, McFadden is worth the pick.

 

Of course, my stance is also based on the notion that Beck is was and will continue to be OUR QB for the next 4 seasons at least. If anything changes to the contrary then regardless of McFadden, Brohm makes a lot of 'need' sense. But that's at an overly unique position, and we all know that.

 

No, I only say McFaddon is worth the pick if you get rid of Brown and then have a void at RB. Keeping Brown and drafting McFaddon is the worst possible senario for the dolphins.

 

Lets see whats going on in 4-5 more weeks. At that point we'll see how Brown is doing (once the dolphins start playing the tough teams) and Beck will most likely get action.

can someone please answer me this? is our offense or our defense losing us games this year? is our running back the problem or the fact we cant stop a running back the problem?

 

oh yeah...and someone smart once said "defense wins championships"...our defense would have a hard time stopping walter payton and he has been dead for a few years now...sometimes the answer is so obvious that all the mcfadden fans are blinded by what our true need is

Our front office is losing us games. We need to hit the reset button, we can't really build on what we have now.

can someone please answer me this? is our offense or our defense losing us games this year? is our running back the problem or the fact we cant stop a running back the problem?

 

oh yeah...and someone smart once said "defense wins championships"...our defense would have a hard time stopping walter payton and he has been dead for a few years now...sometimes the answer is so obvious that all the mcfadden fans are blinded by what our true need is

Our front office is losing us games. We need to hit the reset button, we can't really build on what we have now.

i dont disagree with that...but i think beck and brown are good places to start the rebuilding process...

I hate this thread.

Guys, if we're gonna talk about the guy for 4 pages we can at least spell his name correctly. It's McFadden, not McFaddon.

I agree with the principle of choosing the best player available, but in this one narrow instance keeping both Brown and McFadden just doesn't make sense for this team. If we do that, we'll probably get another #1 overall pick, and what then? What if the best available player is once again a RB? You gonna draft him too? See what I'm saying? Even if you believe in the principle of best player available, there's still a balance to be struck. We can draft McFadden and trade Brown for more picks. Or we can keep Brown and trade the #1 overall for more picks. But we can't just keep Brown and draft McFadden and then wait until the next round to start addressing our horrifying lack of talent and youth at just about every other position.

I hate this thread.

 

it is pretty depressing

I agree with the principle of choosing the best player available, but in this one narrow instance keeping both Brown and McFadden just doesn't make sense for this team. If we do that, we'll probably get another #1 overall pick, and what then? What if the best available player is once again a RB? You gonna draft him too? See what I'm saying? Even if you believe in the principle of best player available, there's still a balance to be struck. We can draft McFadden and trade Brown for more picks. Or we can keep Brown and trade the #1 overall for more picks. But we can't just keep Brown and draft McFadden and then wait until the next round to start addressing our horrifying lack of talent and youth at just about every other position.

 

If it's a rare draft when the gap between the consensus best player and everyone else is so tremendous, yes. You keep San Diego'ing it.

 

The Chargers have done it all the ways. They've taken a player that they knew would never play a down for them (Manning). They've traded the spot to select the can't miss player who would never play a down for them (Vick). And guess what, that strategy directly led to them being a top-3 team in the AFC, there's noting unfounded in what I'm advocating. We'll keep going backwards if we keep passing on the Willises and Okoye's because we don't feel we need them and we'd rather get what we want then get value for the pick.

I agree with the principle of choosing the best player available, but in this one narrow instance keeping both Brown and McFadden just doesn't make sense for this team. If we do that, we'll probably get another #1 overall pick, and what then? What if the best available player is once again a RB? You gonna draft him too? See what I'm saying? Even if you believe in the principle of best player available, there's still a balance to be struck. We can draft McFadden and trade Brown for more picks. Or we can keep Brown and trade the #1 overall for more picks. But we can't just keep Brown and draft McFadden and then wait until the next round to start addressing our horrifying lack of talent and youth at just about every other position.

 

If it's a rare draft when the gap between the consensus best player and everyone else is so tremendous, yes. You keep San Diego'ing it.

 

The Chargers have done it all the ways. They've taken a player that they knew would never play a down for them (Manning). They've traded the spot to select the can't miss player who would never play a down for them (Vick). And guess what, that strategy directly led to them being a top-3 team in the AFC, there's noting unfounded in what I'm advocating. We'll keep going backwards if we keep passing on the Willises and Okoye's because we don't feel we need them and we'd rather get what we want then get value for the pick.

 

Or just dont reach for a player that was supposed to go in the mid 20's.

 

Would you want the Dolphins to keep McFaddan and Brown? I understand what you are saying that the dolphins could draft him, then trade him away. But do you think it would be wise to draft him and have both players on the opening day roster?

 

 

For the record, since you keep brining up san diego, They drafted Manning because they knew the Giants had interest in him. Many teams had Rivers rated just as high. Eli would have played for them, they would have just had to over pay him.

As for vick, they also found a team that was willing to give up a ton of stuff for him. Luckly, that season the chargers had a lot of holes, so they didnt mind trading back. San Diego was lucky because they had trade partners.

On the flip side you have a team like Detroit who drafted Calvin Johnson this season with the intentions of maybe unloading him. The problem is that no other team was intersted in paying their price. So if the dolphins draft McFaddan, with the intentions of trading him, they better have a few teams in mind that are going to be intersted in him.

I agree with the principle of choosing the best player available, but in this one narrow instance keeping both Brown and McFadden just doesn't make sense for this team. If we do that, we'll probably get another #1 overall pick, and what then? What if the best available player is once again a RB? You gonna draft him too? See what I'm saying? Even if you believe in the principle of best player available, there's still a balance to be struck. We can draft McFadden and trade Brown for more picks. Or we can keep Brown and trade the #1 overall for more picks. But we can't just keep Brown and draft McFadden and then wait until the next round to start addressing our horrifying lack of talent and youth at just about every other position.

 

If it's a rare draft when the gap between the consensus best player and everyone else is so tremendous, yes. You keep San Diego'ing it.

 

The Chargers have done it all the ways. They've taken a player that they knew would never play a down for them (Manning). They've traded the spot to select the can't miss player who would never play a down for them (Vick). And guess what, that strategy directly led to them being a top-3 team in the AFC, there's noting unfounded in what I'm advocating. We'll keep going backwards if we keep passing on the Willises and Okoye's because we don't feel we need them and we'd rather get what we want then get value for the pick.

 

Or just dont reach for a player that was supposed to go in the mid 20's.

 

Would you want the Dolphins to keep McFaddan and Brown? I understand what you are saying that the dolphins could draft him, then trade him away. But do you think it would be wise to draft him and have both players on the opening day roster?

 

 

 

Yes. I'd love the Dolphins to keep both McFadden and Brown. I think that would be great, and a good offensive coach (which we think Cam is) would find a way to make sure they get 30 touches between the two of them. McFadden is a rare talent, he is built like a WR and we could put him in the slot. Brown and McFadden can easily share the field.

 

That is another reason why I said I hate this thread, because people keep saying we need to draft defense because we are weak there and shouldn't take the best player because we already have a good RB. I want to fight these people on their front lawn. This is why the Dolphins are so horrible, because we have been drafting based on NEED the past 5 years instead of taking the BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE, which is what good teams do! So frustrating.

 

Take the best player and let the chips fall where they may, BUT don't reach for a Vernon Carey because we have a bad OL, don't reach for Tedd Ginn because we don't have a 2nd WR, don't reach for Jason Allen because our secondary sucks. Ugh. I could go on but don't want to have to keep bringing up the AWFUL drafts of our past.