im not pushing an agenda...

 

 

 

guns are wayyyyyyyyyy to easy for anyone to get their hands on...there has to be more control over them or this is just going to happen more and more often...and personally...next time im out and about, i dont want some douchebag walking up and shooting me...at least if he has a knife, i have a chance to defend myself...any clown can get a gun legally and that is just wrong

 

 

 

 

 

Is that right?

when senseless violence happens...are we just supposed to sit idly by and say oh god, RIP, i hope nothing like this ever happens again blah blah blah...or maybe...just maybe...we could actually try doing some things to help prevent the situation from happening again...and sure...there are crazy people who will do it again...but why make it so freakin easy for them to do so?

 

 

And what qualifies you to say how easy it is to get guns? Have you ever bought one? Unless you have, I'd rather you not make baseless claims. It is not easy to buy a gun. And the fact that several times a year, a shooting spree occurs on a school campus -- that is not justification for defacing the US Constitution. We make sacrifices for basic freedoms, always have, always will.

no i have never bought a gun...but let me ask you this? what is the sacrifice of less guns? less deaths? id make that sacrifice any day of the week

Less freedom.

 

Just like your stance on health care. You have a fatalistic view on the world and feel that sacrificing freedom solves all problems. Let me tell you something. It doesn't.

im not promoting less freedom in any sort of the way...sorry penguino, i dont see the world in a black and white, partisan viewpoint...there needs to be less guns in the hands of those who dont deserve them...no if's and's or buts about it...

 

A. if you have mental problems...(i.e. depression, bi-polar, multi-personalities, etc.) you should not be allowed to buy a gun

B. if you have drug/alcohol problems you shouldnt be allowed to buy a gun

C. if you have been in jail for weapons related offenses, you shouldnt be allowed to buy a gun

D. our government should be doing more to deter the black market for guns in this country

E. our government should make it mandatory that every gun sold from now on has a thumb-print identifier, so there will be less acidental shootings

 

if we can help put some of these measures into action, those that are law abiding citizens can still have their gun to jack it to at night and we potentially save alot of lives that are otherwise senselessly cut short

The fact that he got the guns LEGALLY tells me that this is exactly like VT--namely, there's a defect in the law. It sounds like just like in Virginia, Illinois doesn't prohibit the sale of guns to people with mental disorders. This is yet another case (the second in a span of 12 months) in which increased enforcement of the gun laws on the books wouldn't have meant a damn thing and a new law is needed.

its sick how any moron in this country can get a gun

Your first statement.

 

To me that absolutely is a blanket statement on our country's policies. And then you go on to ask what the consequences of less guns in the society. That absolutely is a statement that undermines the freedom of the law abiding citizens who own firearms.

 

All of the measures you are advocating above are pretty much already in place in many states. While it is developing that the NIU student had some mental issues, his ability to acquire the gun is being portrayed as the failure of the state to uphold it's policy in issuing a buyer's card rather than having lenient control laws.

 

The main problem with Illinois gun laws right now is that law abiding citizens are forbidden from carrying concealed weapons for self-defense. Just for the same reason Virginia Tech boasted about their policy of banning guns on campus for self defense about a year before the shootings. Those who have the will shoot up a bunch of people in a public place will obtain the gun and will bring it with them to the area of their choice. Until you realize this you are only limiting the individual freedoms of those who follow the law and don't save anymore lives.

 

What you appear to be advocating (and I don't even think you know what you are saying) will do nothing to inhibit gun violence in America. You will just limit the freedoms of those who follow the law and have the ability to take down the actual criminals in these situations.

im not undermining those who own firearms legally at all....

 

the measures in which i advocate need to be in place in ALL states....and if this person, who had mental problems...acquired a gun, then it sure as hell is someone's fault...whether it be a state which has too lenient gun control laws or whether it be someone who disregarded the law just the same...its still someone's fault that this kid got a gun in the first place

 

those who have the will to shoot up a bunch of people would be strongly discouraged in using a gun if it much more difficult to legally obtain gun...yes i understand the point, if someone is going to kill...that individual would kill irregardless...but why make it easy for them?

 

and im not limiting the freedoms of those who use and acquire guns legally...im just advocating that it be more difficult for everyone to obtain guns legally...because if you dont have red flags on your record than getting a gun legally shouldnt be a problem at all...and at the very least...we wont be having this discussion the next time it happens...which will probably be in 3-4 months anyways

So what exactly are you opposing then? I don't see your point. And from you are saying I don't even think you have any familiarity with gun laws. You are simply trying to push this blanket agenda. I agree that individuals with mental illness, criminal records, and histories of violence should have greater difficulty in obtaining firearms. Illinois FOID turns down thousands of applicants.

 

I don't see how you can even assume that harsher regulations (within the Constitution) are going to curb these incidents. The cannabis you smoke is illegal and government involvement has made it rather difficult to get. And yet you still do. Why have these shootings been happening more frequently do you honestly feel it is because guns have been more plentiful? Or is it some other reason?

 

 

To me the only point of debate that arises after every shooting is whether or not law abiding citizens should be allowed to carry concealed firearms. There was a recent incident in Texas where dozens of helpless people were killed because concealed weapons were banned. The situation made enough noise to get the laws changed.

im opposing how easy it is to get firearms...this has been my point all along in case you werent paying attention...which...you clearly havent been...and great...illinois turns down thousands...but all it takes is one to slip through the cracks for something like this to happen....

 

and why does your point always come back to weed? what does that have to do with this discussion? nothing...exactly...moving along because you have zero point here...

 

and tell me...if firearms are less readily available than how would more people get shot? please explain this to me...because it doesnt make much sense to me that less guns=more deaths

 

if more law abiding citizens carry guns...then you will have more accidental deaths...i mean...say someone is reaching for their cell phone when someone else thinks they are reaching for a gun and bam...thats the end of that phone call and life...

 

and in texas...has the crime rate been drastically reduced because they can carry concealed weapons? i think not...it does nothing...

mental health issues are extremely difficult to quantify. How do you decide who's a risk?

 

Do you know how many people have had issues with depression at one time or another??

I can see both sides. I am not allowed to carry a concealed weapon because I'm a teacher. Hell- I'm not allowed to carry pepper spray, because it's considered a weapon. So, I'm left in the classroom with just my wits to protect me.

 

But at the same time, I don't know if I want to go to a shopping mall where everyone has a bulge in their hip pockets, ready to "Yippy-yo Ka-Yea!" at the sound of a pop. Maybe I don't fear for my personal safety as much as the next person. I've never been in a situation where I had my life threatened. And I hope no one on these boards has either. But what about the promotion of vigilantism? Who is to say people won't take the law into their own hands? Yes, I know millions of people legally own guns and nothing happens. I'm not talking about those but if we all take the tac that now, we ALL should go out and arm ourselves because our law enforcement agencies can't protect us, then where does it end?

 

Mental illness is a growing problem in our society. There are more people diagnosed with clinical depression than ever before and thousands more who are NOT diagnosed or refuse to seek help. I see the problem growing exponentially in our schools- some kids are as young as 2nd or 3rd grade.

 

The shootings are a heinous crime. If we could find the answer to stop them, don't you think someone would have found it by now? It's not so cut and dried as some want it to be.

 

This thread is supposed to be about the shootings as NIU- not two people arguing about their points of view. If you want to drag this thread down to a personal discussion, it needs to be closed. Take your comments to PM's or talk privately, but do not turn this thread into gestures of grandstanding.