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This debate ends 9:00 PM Eastern on 11/11.

 

Topic - Should the Marlins go after Castillo or find a cheaper replacement?

 

Castillo - jdogg71

 

Cheaper replacement - DaGreatOne

 

Either side may begin.

debaters, please use specific names, salaries, an links for your arguments.

The next couple of weeks will decide the future of this Marlins team and the front office has many decisions to make on who to keep for next year and beyond that. So who is the most dispensable player in our team that is a free agent? Is it Ivan Rodriguez who won so many games for us during the post season run or is it Mike Lowell who was the fire power of this offense during the season or is it Luis Castillo who many say and obviously voted that he was the best fielding 2nd baseman in the league. Well the most dispensable player is Luis Castillo who is set to make between 6-7 million dollars and that is just way too much for a second baseman on a small market team. Especially when there are cheaper replacements out there who can provide the same bat and glove that Castillo brings to the table. Here is one possible cheaper replacement who would probably command between 3.5 million to 4.5 million (based on what he made last year and the new market).

 

Mark Grudzielanek: OBP= .366 OPS=. 782 Avg= .314

 

Luis Castillo: OBP= .381 OPS=. 778 Avg= .314

 

As you can see Grudzielanek provided a higher OPS than Castillo and maintain the same average as him. Well you might say that Castillo had the higher OBP and that?s the most important thing in baseball and that Grudzielanek struck out a lot which is not the case.

 

Grudzielanek: SO= 64

 

Castillo: SO= 60

 

As you can see they say Castillo is one of the harder players to strike out but looks like Mark only had 4 more than him.

 

Now for those who think we cannot live without Luis Castillo?s fielding skills and his gold glove. Here are a couple of stats that might change your mind.

 

Grudzielanek: FPCT= 986% DP= 94

 

Castillo: FPCT= 986% DP= 99

 

As you can clearly see Grudzielanek had the same fielding percentage as Castillo and turned just 5 double plays more than Grudzielanek. Also before you go lashing out and say well Grudzielanek in previous years had a worse fielding percentage than Castillo and last year was just a fluke. Well that?s because he used to play shortstop and now switched to 2nd baseman where he fits more naturally so that might make his range even better than Castillo?s. I think the Marlins can spare 5 double plays for 3 million dollars to spend else where.

 

As much as I love Castillo being a long time Marlins fan. Now is when our front office has to make decisions to who is more valuable to the team and will help us in the long run and as you can see Castillo can be spared for some other cheaper replacement. While saving other positions that hold higher value for this team.

If Mark Grudzielanek is just as good as Luis Castillo, how come he is not as sought after as Luis is? You say that he struck out 4 more times than Luis did, but Luis had over 100 more at bats than Grudz. But this debate is not Luis vs Mark. The Marlins need Luis Castillo and his consistent bat. I know his SB's were down this year but he was coming off of hip surgery so you know that his numbers are gonna get better.

 

Speed, defense, and pitching. Thats what we are supposed to be building this team around. Now Id be a fool to say that Luis can pitch, but the speed and defense part are what Luis is the mold for. Castillo can hit in the clutch and he is consistent. He can turn the double play better than anyone. What other position can possibly hold a higher value than 2nd for a team preaching defense and speed.

Ok the reason Grudzielanek is not as sought after is because of his age. Grudzielanek is 33 and Castillo is 28. But were trying to find a short term replacement and he still has about 3yrs left in him. Yes our team is based on pitching, speed, and defense. Like I said before Mark had the same fielding percentage as Castillo and just 4 less double plays. Also there is no clear sign that Castillo will regain his speed back with rest.

 

In addition your statement about Castillo being clutch. If he was so clutch why didnt he have a better RISP average than Grudzielanek.

 

Grudzielank: .310 Avg 36 RBI

 

Castillo: .286 Avg 31 RBI

Yeah, he batted .286 but his OBP was .381 leaving himself onbase for the heart of the lineup. With runners on base his average was a good .336. As for not being clutch, it was Castillo's 2 out basehit that gave the Marlins a 1-0 lead in the World Series against a stubborn Andy Pettite.

 

There were only 2 months in the season that Castillos average was below .300 and in all of those months his OBP only went under .350 once and in that month it was .330. Not to mention that he only grounded into 7 double plays and with over 100 less at bats good ole' Grudzy grounded into 13.

 

There is also the chemistry of this team you have to think about. Castillo has been with most of the guys on the team a long time and knows all the little nuances of each player. The intangibles mean alot as well when it comes to a decision of this magnitude.

 

Edit: I actually like Grudzy...so if you read this dont take it personal.

Just a reminder, this debate is about keeping Luis or not keeping Luis... not just Luis or Grudzielanek.

 

Keep that in mind guys.

Yes chemistry is important for a team but how can you justify paying Castillo 6 or 7 million and have to lose some other important player like Pudge or Lowell to give Castillo his payday.

 

Also one hit in one game does not consider him a clutch player. He isnt Derek Jeter yet, who has done it many times in the playoffs. Plus he struggled in the post-season. He hit .211 in the post-season with a .291 on base percentage. So you really cannot say he is a clutch player yet. Also on your statement about Castillo batting above .300 the whole season except for 2 months in the season. Grudzielanek also did the same except for 3 months. So it?s not a huge accomplisment.

 

I cannot say the this team is better without Castillo but I can say this team is not better if we keep Castillo and get rid of some other player like a Lowell, Pudge, Burnett. When we can easily replace him with a 2nd baseman who will provide us with near or better production out of the 2nd baseman position as Castillo did.

 

Edit: I actually like Grudzy...so if you read this dont take it personal.

 

I know its a debate. :thumbup

I cannot say the this team is better without Castillo but I can say this team is not better if we keep Castillo and get rid of some other player like a Lowell, Pudge, Burnett.

 

Actually can you please tell me what Burnett did last season. Did he provide sensational defense? Did he hit over .300? Did he do anything to get the Marlins to the World Series? No, but Castillo did and whether you have to pay him $7 mil or $8 mil you do. Maybe you keep Lowell, Pudge, and Burnett. But Castillo is one of the reasons we went to the World Series. D Lee and Encarnacion are the expendable ones, so jettison their salary and find a way to keep Castillo.

 

No one plays defense as well as Castillo, and no one has a combination of speed 1-2 like Pierre and Castillo. You keep that at the top of the order and you keep every pitcher in baseball worried.

Actually can you please tell me what Burnett did last season. Did he provide sensational defense? Did he hit over .300? Did he do anything to get the Marlins to the World Series? No, but Castillo did

Your right Burnett didnt do anything last year but he is more valuable to the team in the future than Castillo is. Pitching wins games not Defense. Also if you say Castillo is valuable to team but Juan Encarnacion and Derrek Lee are expendable. That makes no sense. Especially when Derrek Lee hit 31 homeruns, drove in 92 rbis and scored 91 times. Compared to the 99 runs by Castillo. So Lee scored only 8 less times and also played Gold Glove Defense. So that I think explains how valuable Castillo is to the team compared to other players.

 

and no one has a combination of speed 1-2 like Pierre and Castillo. You keep that at the top of the order and you keep every pitcher in baseball worried.

 

Well I dont think many people worried about Castillo last year considering he only stole 21 bases and was caught 19 times.

Also if you say Castillo is valuable to team but Juan Encarnacion and Derrek Lee are expendable. That makes no sense.

It makes sense when you have Conine to play first base or you can get a cheaper option that does not strike out as much. But I think the team needs Castillo.

 

Well I dont think many people worried about Castillo last year considering he only stole 21 bases and was caught 19 times.

 

Remember he was coming off of hip surgery. Just imagine what a healthy Castillo does batting after Pierre. No way next year does Castillo get only 21 steals.

 

Your right Burnett didnt do anything last year but he is more valuable to the team in the future than Castillo is. Pitching wins games not Defense.

 

Oh yeah, ask Alex Gonzalez of the Cubs or Jose Cruz Jr. if defense doesnt win games

It makes sense when you have Conine to play first base or you can get a cheaper option that does not strike out as much. But I think the team needs Castillo.

Obviously but if you can keep Conine in Left and have Lee at 1st that makes even a better offense. Than having Conine and Castillo only.

 

Remember he was coming off of hip surgery. Just imagine what a healthy Castillo does batting after Pierre. No way next year does Castillo get only 21 steals.

 

There is no way to prove that he will be back to his normal self. Thats why some teams and the marlins are worried about giving him a big contract.

 

Oh yeah, ask Alex Gonzalez of the Cubs or Jose Cruz Jr. if defense doesnt win games

 

Yes they did make errors that cost some runs but I can bet you there were situations where they could have drove in a run earlier in the game or get on base so they could score.

Obviously but if you can keep Conine in Left and have Lee at 1st that makes even a better offense. Than having Conine and Castillo only.

 

The only thing Lee gives is some pop and JT Snow could give offense as well. If there is no Castillo then who is Lee gonna drive in?

 

There is no way to prove that he will be back to his normal self. Thats why some teams and the marlins are worried about giving him a big contract.

 

More than likely he will and you know what a healthy Castillo can do on the basepaths.

 

Yes they did make errors that cost some runs but I can bet you there were situations where they could have drove in a run earlier in the game or get on base so they could score.

 

As I said, Castillo is a proven commodity on defense and on offense, if he leaves there is no real replacement for what he does.

DaGreatOne is the winner.

 

Good work guys.

 

Anyone may now reply to this topic.

He got the harder arguement and won.

 

Kudos, GreatOne.

Clearly there is no significant reason for the Marlins to keep Castillo. I won't miss him.

Clearly there is no significant reason for the Marlins to keep Castillo. I won't miss him.

yawn

Good job DaGreatOne! I still agree on keeping Castillo but not at the cost of some of our other players. On a sad note, I will probably not be able to see the rest of the debates due to my having to travel to Puerto Rico to visit my dying Grandfather. Keep up the good work guys (and girls) and Ill see you all when I get back.

Same to you Jdogg! Nice job on it. Sorry to hear bout your grandfather. Best wishes to him.

 

Also thnx for the compliments guys.

 

I also would like to see Castillo back in a Marlins uni.

good job great one..keep up the good work..good luck on your next round..